Where are all the dedicated players?

[Radaney]

Blizzard don't release their raids at the same time as World Content anymore so people have nothing to do outside of raids which bores people.

[Niwes]

Then the game must be fun, because there are plenty of dedicated players in the raiding scene. Looking beyond that scene, there are millions of players. Fancy that...
"Classes are way too shallow", and still performance at the top of their potential is restricted to the top 5% of the population, not to mention the class and spec-specific content.

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Indeed.

The players in need of asking "where are the dedicated players?", are usually part of the not-so-dedicated troops. Just look in this thread, where some people complain about the lack of "dedicated players", yet they admit they're nowhere close to dedicated to the game...

yep, same thing i realized too and made me a bit... wondering

its like that ppl that are so often in the forums to complain about things that you wonder when they find the time to even play the game to find things that they can complain about.

its always strange to me when that guys with 7/9 dead HC bosses post 5-7 evenings (in a row) in the forums how bad their class is and whats wrong is with raiding and whatever. always ask myself: when are that ppl raiding?

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Since coming back to legion i enjoyed WoW more then ever the raids was fun and interesting content bit much soaking tho.

but mid tier depression is getting so freaking old.

it happen end of EN, NH and now in ToS, i Wish blizzard would make mythic raids more flexiable to a point 3 to 5 groups instead of 4 it sucks having to call a raid when only 19 people show up because a member just left without a word to anyone then u sit there on raid day trying to get a raid together but no go.

oh, and to shorten this here... here is your answer:

its summer.
cheers.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Blizzard don't release their raids at the same time as World Content anymore so people have nothing to do outside of raids which bores people.

If people manage to have "nothing to do outside of raids" in Legion of all expansions, then that's too bad.

My money is on the usual Summer vacay-slump though.

[Super Kami Dende]

Stop using the age of the game as an excuse. WoW is simply not that good anymore.

Stop using Nostalgia as an excuse. WoW's Raiding in Legion is some of the best it has ever had.

[Queen of Hamsters]

yep, same thing i realized too and made me a bit... wondering

its like that ppl that are so often in the forums to complain about things that you wonder when they find the time to even play the game to find things that they can complain about.

its always strange to me when that guys with 7/9 dead HC bosses post 5-7 evenings (in a row) in the forums how bad their class is and whats wrong is with raiding and whatever. always ask myself: when are that ppl raiding?

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oh, and to shorten this here... here is your answer:

its summer.
cheers.

Yeah... a surprisingly big amount of the most aggressively negative people, don't actually play/partake in the content they complain about... I chalk it down to Ex-Partner syndrome. They don't like the game anymore, but they need to let everyone else know why they don't like it, and why it's not as good as back when they did like it...

[Niwes]

I was a dedicated player till my guild was struggling to constantly meet 20 players for mythic runs, at which point the GM decided to do a guild merger. Ironically after that we had "too many" players, with over 30 raiders... so guild had to let go of some.

I got demoted to social.

After years of guild loyalty, to the point of doing a server transfer with during end of MoP, to be demoted like that...

/yay

Suffice to say, completely lost interest playing the game after that. I've not played for almost 4 months now.

THIS is the waaaaaaay better point.

instead crying for 10 or 40 or whatever, ppl should cry for some jitter in raid composition. maybe myth dont need to be full flex. but at least it would help when they just flex it from 17-23 ppls as example, after world first (that means this mechanic activates always 4-6 weeks after raid release). they could still do all the myth encounter stuff, since its only a slightly part of the overall shit that is gonna stretched. but if you lost 2 ppl on an evening its not a desaster.

but way more important is, as quote mentioned, the other problem (which would be solved a bit too with above): how to build up a pool and substitutes bench with fixed raid size ? most ppl that commit their life towards raiding expect TO RAID. all dedicated raiders are pissed when they stay at home, but cant raid. that sucks. and that sucks hard. (ofc you do it bc raid needs, but it still sucks and nowadays ppl relative quick switch to another raid when they cant raid for sure on evening). and its the solely reason why most 20s raid have 22-23 players at max and that was it.

if you solve this problem, you solved the raid size problem. its not the raid size thats the problem. its the "how to get a stable pool of players" thats the real problem. and above is one of the biggest reasons for why that is a problem.

[Morae]

Easiest way is to find very old players. They wont quit. They have seen and done it all already for many expansions and are still here. That is, if your guild can provide them what they want. They wont stay around, if its not a good guild with good people in it. Majority, if not all, have to be similar players because they think and do things the same way. A newer player has not seen and done it all already or if they have, they havent got used to all the things. They dont act the same way. If majority of guild are old players, they can passively force the newer players act the correct way or simply eject them without messing the team.

[Niwes]

Yeah... a surprisingly big amount of the most aggressively negative people, don't actually play/partake in the content they complain about... I chalk it down to Ex-Partner syndrome. They don't like the game anymore, but they need to let everyone else know why they don't like it, and why it's not as good as back when they did like it...

hmmm, this is slightly a bit another thing for me. i can understand why ppl stop playing a game they were dedicated to and that was changed into something else they dont longer like. then its normal that ppl are disapointed and frustrated and blame (imo correctly to a degree) the gaming company by tellin others that the game become bad (because they commited theirselfes to something and company changed that). for an amount of time. i can understand that. if they still look at infos and complain a year after they stopped playing the game, instead to just move on, thats just strange or stupid.

what i mean are more that ppl that are playing on a regular base but invest 3 times more effort/time to complain than to play the game. its like ppl playing mmorpgs because someone told them "you have to play this!" but they not really like that game type. there are SO FUKIN MUCH ppl in the wow universe that play a mmorpg, complain all the time, and show that they dont like mmorpgs. why the heck are they play wow then ?

i dont like id shooters. i would never play an id shooter 3 times a week, to complain in that games forum why it sucks and tell ppl how bad all that idshooter'istic stuff in that game is. wtf?

its not like wow started anytime in history with being a non-mmorpg'ish solo great action adventure game or something along those lines. ii had an open world with quests, it had organized raiding. since ever. when you dont like that, dont fukin play wow.

[Stormspellz]

waiting for wow to be good again (it won't ever be)

[Radaney]

If people manage to have "nothing to do outside of raids" in Legion of all expansions, then that's too bad.

What is there to do though.

[Marrilaife]

Blizzard don't release their raids at the same time as World Content anymore so people have nothing to do outside of raids which bores people.

Well tbh I think it's better if they release patches in a cycle "raid - casual - raid - casual" rather than both together then 6 months of no patch. If Argus wouldn't be releasing in 1-2 weeks but in 3 months would that give people more stuff to do? Rather the opposite.

People who are "bored" would be bored anyway, no MMO can sustain a development cycle "major patch every month" or something outlandish like that.

Also many people do want to play other games outside of WOW instead of spending all their free time on WOW. If my guildies play Overwatch, HotS, pubg or whatever is the new hot zombie game (there's always one) it's because they WANT to play it, if WOW would become so time consuming they could no longer share their free time between WOW and their other favourite games... Well it happened in NH with the infamous AP grind. And many just quit because they got burnt out of wow with no breaks. I had 3 friends on my btag that ran m+ like a maniac pre 7.2, 2 of them didn't log for months and 3rd quit raiding and started fiddling with pvp on alts and other casual content. First week after we killed mythic Krosus the guild lost like 5 people due to burnout from grind...

Average guild raids 9-16 hours per week until they clear content, and only when they do so, they downscale the hours until next tier. How many more hours per week of "content to do" they need to have until they no longer have time for anything between wow, sleep and work / school? And tbh Legion tuning of raids means you often don't go into "farm mode" long into the tier. And even then, the "world content patch" dropping is better suited mid-raid tier when some people have the raid on farm than early in the raid when you spend extensive hours progressing.

[Queen of Hamsters]

waiting for wow to be good again (it won't ever be)

If Legion is WoW at a stage of "not being good", then I'd hate to think that they'd try and cater to people such as yourself...

[Niwes]

Easiest way is to find very old players. They wont quit. They have seen and done it all already for many expansions and are still here. That is, if your guild can provide them what they want. They wont stay around, if its not a good guild with good people in it. Majority, if not all, have to be similar players because they think and do things the same way. A newer player has not seen and done it all already or if they have, they havent got used to all the things. They dont act the same way. If majority of guild are old players, they can passively force the newer players act the correct way or simply eject them without messing the team.

truth in this.

[Queen of Hamsters]

What is there to do though.

I spent time recounting all the things I do on a daily basis in current content (Broken Isles) in a thread not long ago, only to have it met by a retort where the person basically admitted to not considering WoW content worth playing if it ain't raiding...

So, I'll summarize: I spend more time per day in this game than most people, yet I'd still struggle for time if I was to play everything there is to do in current content alone. I do raid, and have more reasons to log and play outside of raid nights than ever EVER before. I also then pursue rewards from old content...

Main focus I have right now outside of raiding; Getting every hidden appearance for each class (the base one). After that, I'll switch to getting the Challenge appearance for each class/spec. On top of that, I juggle leveling alts, crafting, progressing max level characters, collecting, AHing etc etc...

[Niwes]

Well tbh I think it's better if they release patches in a cycle "raid - casual - raid - casual" rather than both together then 6 months of no patch. If Argus wouldn't be releasing in 1-2 weeks but in 3 months would that give people more stuff to do? Rather the opposite.

People who are "bored" would be bored anyway, no MMO can sustain a development cycle "major patch every month" or something outlandish like that.

Also many people do want to play other games outside of WOW instead of spending all their free time on WOW. If my guildies play Overwatch, HotS, pubg or whatever is the new hot zombie game (there's always one) it's because they WANT to play it, if WOW would become so time consuming they could no longer share their free time between WOW and their other favourite games... Well it happened in NH with the infamous AP grind. And many just quit because they got burnt out of wow with no breaks. I had 3 friends on my btag that ran m+ like a maniac pre 7.2, 2 of them didn't log for months and 3rd quit raiding and started fiddling with pvp on alts and other casual content. First week after we killed mythic Krosus the guild lost like 5 people due to burnout from grind...

Average guild raids 9-16 hours per week until they clear content, and only when they do so, they downscale the hours until next tier. How many more hours per week of "content to do" they need to have until they no longer have time for anything between wow, sleep and work / school? And tbh Legion tuning of raids means you often don't go into "farm mode" long into the tier. And even then, the "world content patch" dropping is better suited mid-raid tier when some people have the raid on farm than early in the raid when you spend extensive hours progressing.

and even those that are fulltime commited to wow (like myself) would say the same, because you forgot to mention "alts". most dedictaed hardcore wow players never had any problem with content drought before next xpac, bc they like that times for finding time to pvp, do achievements, pet battle, play alts, etc etc.

that steady stream of content is good for players with only 1 char. hardcore gamers not only have 1 char. so that up and downs in wows patch release cycle is most of the time a good thing. as you said: to play other games, RL, or just to play alts, achievements, etc.

[nyc81991]

Blizzard needs to fix server and guild problems and ASAP. There are way too many dead realms with little to no community left. Which also makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible to recruit people for your guild. I've been in the same guild since Vanilla and the server is so dead that most people changed servers or stopped playing and there is literally almost no one good left to recruit.

They need to merge a lot of servers and / or make guilds cross realm.

It also doesn't help that Blizzard intentionally has it's player base split between the Alliance and Horde. Making the amount of people / friends you can actually play with half of what it could be. In the current state of the game, preventing people from playing with their friends like that only makes all the other issues seem 5x worse. Now I'm not saying "Completely do away with Factions" but they could at least allow Bnet friends to queue up together. And before anyone says something about Alliance and Horde shouldn't be able to play together, remember that this entire expansion has pretty much been about working together to take down the Legion. Go to Dalaran or your class hall and look at all the people of the opposite faction you are working with in lore. They have already made complete faction separation a thing of the past.

I honestly loved the start of Legion, but I find myself playing less and less as it goes on and a big part of that is the lack of community / restrictions in place. (Yes I know I can pay $ to change servers / factions, but that isn't a solution to a real problem and I shouldn't have to throw away money like that).

[Niwes]

Dedicated players are in guilds that are dedicated raiding guilds.

If you are asking where they are, they are doing just fine in their guilds. I'm in one. Many of the guildies are +30years old and some have families. Many have been raiding since vanilla. Call that dedication and experience. Personally I just want a social hobby so I raid with people I have called friends for years.

We progress in mythic and are 4 bosses killed atm in ToS. We do not miss a single raid. Our raiders are dedicated to it. We also have some at bench so we dont sit at exact 20 players and risk missing raid if one doesnt come. We have had people not able to raid for weeks and it still works out when they come back. Real life stuff may interfere.

Also the guild is old. Second oldest on the server. Only one older is also a dedicated raid guild, at least to my understanding. I have never been guild leader, but I can understand that problems and things a guild must have gone trough since vanilla and still exist. I think our guild leader is still the same person, tho i'm not aware of the entire history of the guild, I joined it during wotlk.

Are you starting to see the dedication?
Many of our people have raided since vanilla. Become older. Have families. Have jobs. Yet still want to raid.
Guild has survived a long time. Guild must have good leadership and intelligent people in it for that to happen.
The experience.
Ect.

If you want dedicated raiding, find such guild. Start with guilds that are old. There is a reason they are old.
Make sure you fit there. Otherwise, if your dedication is lacking, you will find yourself leaving. I dont think I have really seen people kicked from guild over the years. The ones who leave, leave by themselves.

yep, same goes for me. same statements too. but i have such an assumption that maybe the op isnt one of that persons that you mentioned. i way more believe in 1 or 2 years he is asking the same question in another game forum, after he left wow after 1 or maybe 2 years (max). totally no offense. but if op is such a person, he had never asked this question here.

or, another way: it seems you are such a person/player. now i ask you: have you ever (even when you started in wotlk) opened a thread like this here? and if not, ask yourself why. the answer to this is why the op is no one of the persons you mentioned.

its pure logic. no offend to op here.

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Blizzard needs to fix server and guild problems and ASAP. There are way too many dead realms with little to no community left. Which also makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible to recruit people for your guild. I've been in the same guild since Vanilla and the server is so dead that most people changed servers or stopped playing and there is literally almost no one good left to recruit.

They need to merge a lot of servers and / or make guilds cross realm.

It also doesn't help that Blizzard intentionally has it's player base split between the Alliance and Horde. Making the amount of people / friends you can actually play with half of what it could be. In the current state of the game, preventing people from playing with their friends like that only makes all the other issues seem 5x worse. Now I'm not saying "Completely do away with Factions" but they could at least allow Bnet friends to queue up together. And before anyone says something about Alliance and Horde shouldn't be able to play together, remember that this entire expansion has pretty much been about working together to take down the Legion. Go to Dalaran or your class hall and look at all the people of the opposite faction you are working with in lore. They have already made complete faction separation a thing of the past.

I honestly loved the start of Legion, but I find myself playing less and less as it goes on and a big part of that is the lack of community / restrictions in place.

100% agree.

i am not a friend of loosing factions. wow is watered down enough. but besides that, i agree to all you said. also to the fact that factions dont make it better, even when i dont want to loose factions.

[Stormspellz]

If Legion is WoW at a stage of "not being good", then I'd hate to think that they'd try and cater to people such as yourself...

crafting is unfulling
pvp is the worst its ever been
world quests are boring
classes design leaves much to be desired
balance in all aspects is profoundly bad
ect

[Niwes]

I spent time recounting all the things I do on a daily basis in current content (Broken Isles) in a thread not long ago, only to have it met by a retort where the person basically admitted to not considering WoW content worth playing if it ain't raiding...

So, I'll summarize: I spend more time per day in this game than most people, yet I'd still struggle for time if I was to play everything there is to do in current content alone. I do raid, and have more reasons to log and play outside of raid nights than ever EVER before. I also then pursue rewards from old content...

Main focus I have right now outside of raiding; Getting every hidden appearance for each class (the base one). After that, I'll switch to getting the Challenge appearance for each class/spec. On top of that, I juggle leveling alts, crafting, progressing max level characters, collecting, AHing etc etc...

i can add this here to even more show how much time you CAN invest when you play the full game:

while complete WoD runtime i worked either 11 hours a week or was unemployed. i played 4-8 hours a day. every or every 1,5 days. in WoD ! (and i am not a new player. i play since vanilla without interuption).

this shows more than clearly that there is ENOUGH to do. even in WoD. when you play the whole game, with pvp, pet battle, alts and achievements, even in WoD you could fill your life 24/7 with it.

heck, these days ppl either play pve or pvp. nearly no more ppl that play both successfull. because even for this there is not enough time. and still jokers like that idiot above complain that there is nothing todo. they play the wrong game. for sure.

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crafting is unfulling
pvp is the worst its ever been
world quests are boring
classes design leaves much to be desired
balance in all aspects is profoundly bad
ect

that are good arguments that you should not play this xpac.

clearly: i dont say you shouldnt play the game. since your answers sounds like you WANT to play wow, but the variant of it in Legion is not yours (bad pvp, unfulling crafting etc). but if the xpacs way is not yours, you should just stop playing this xpac.

you cant say: there is nothing todo, when in reality you want say: there is nothing for me todo in this xpac that i like. thats a big difference.

[Queen of Hamsters]

crafting is unfulling
1 pvp is the worst its ever been
2 world quests are boring
3 classes design leaves much to be desired
4 balance in all aspects is profoundly bad
ect

1. Subjective I suppose, although the amount of investment into professions has never been as fleshed out, so guess you just don't like crafting?
2. In all my years playing, I've never EVER seen the PVP community happy about current PVP content. Never.
3. World Quests are boring = Subjective, I think they're far superior, more fun and offers more freedom for progression than any other iteration of repeatable world content.
4. Class design is a bit the same like PVP. While I dislike some design choices, it's not enough to make me fall into the Negative Nate hole.
5. Balance = same as PVP, it's like a meme peeve. Meanwhile, at the level most players play at, it's entirely functional.

My point stands, I don't want them to scale back on depth, variety in content, pacing of patches and raid design to try and make people happy whom will never be happy because at their core, they want the game to be what it was x amount of years ago when they felt differently about it...

You don't want to do what is available? That doesn't translate into "there's nothing to do for a fact!!"... That's akin to me sitting around saying "There's nothing to do, tasks are unfullfilling!!" about a shooter game...