"Link AOTC KJ or no invite"

[roi]

He's right though, if you're like ilvl 930, aren't in a guild and therefore live the pug life and also have AotC, for what reason shouldn't you simply join AotC-only groups (of which tons exist)?

And in my experience, people in such groups are usually patient and don't mind waiting for 10-20 minutes to get started, if that means they get a quick, wipe-free run with other decent people who know what they're doing. And the exact opposite is true for *progress* groups, where people jump between groups after a single wipe and hope they get lucky eventually and kill the boss first try.

[skitzin]

You most likely haven't gotten any experience making pugs (even though you say you have), since you clearly don't know how pugs work. When a leader asks for curve, and every good player that joins has a curve, they will always inspect new members to make sure they aren't boosting everyone. They will not hesitate to call out on the one who doesn't have the achievement and quickly destroy the run.

You clearly seem to think you should care about the childish opinions of people who do this.

I run regular weekly pugs for normal and heroic NH and ToS on my alts with few problems like this. Very few have ever had this happen and the few that do carry on just get replaced and the rest move on with their lives.

And, if you, as a raid leader are unable to deal with a few toxic people and reform if people wish to leave or are removed then you shouldn't be at the helm of a raid.

[Otimus]

You are legitimately the most retarded mind (go check yourself, your IQ must be on the negative) I have ever seen in action.

Consider going into the woods and never coming back.

On ignore with you.

- - - Updated - - -



So you're a casual and you demand people give you credit for being casual?

Na, mate, AotC KJ x3-4 kills or no invite.

- - - Updated - - -



THEN DON'T DEMAND PEOPLE GIVE YOU SOMETHING FOR NOTHING.

As soon as you will get KJ HC, you will start demanding it for your groups.

I don't demand anything. I realize the reality of the game, it's design, and it's community. I don't want, nor expect anything because that's pretty much a losing game.

I just don't want to ever hear shit from you people whining about LFR existing.

[cocacolawheresthesoda]

Except in this case the 'work' is something they actually enjoy (I presume) and I don't (Though I did clear nighthold for my gul'dan kill as I needed the nightshards for the quest).

It's a game, you're supposed to have fun. If raiding is 'work' to you then you should stop.

No.

You can't expect others to invite you if you don't have curve.

Work for it and get it.

[netherflame]

They should just stop giving out AotC during the tier, just award it after the tier ends similar to how the PvP Achievements are given.

[Sayerel]

How am I supposed to link AOTC KJ when i cant get into any groups to get AOTC KJ? LOgic?

Find pugs that aren't looking for AoTC KJ and pug through the entire instance as every pugger has had to do each tier? LOgic?

[Soluna]

You clearly seem to think you should care about the childish opinions of people who do this.

I run regular weekly pugs for normal and heroic NH and ToS on my alts with few problems like this. Very few have ever had this happen and the few that do carry on just get replaced and the rest move on with their lives.

And, if you, as a raid leader are unable to deal with a few toxic people and reform if people wish to leave or are removed then you shouldn't be at the helm of a raid.

It's not about players being toxic, it's about the players not wanting to waste their time with players who might not even know what the 'flaming orb' is. Anyway, stop being salty about telling you that you don't know how Pugs work. I can reform groups if necessary, but I usually do that if the group is a bunch of boosted noobs who bought curve (shown by their incompetence to do mechanics really) and then I create another and another group, until I get mostly good players who can pull enough dps to beat all the dps checks on KJ that make it easier (get him to P1 intermission before 2nd armag, get him to 2nd intermission before 2 tank add spawns, etc).

The thing with people like you is that you might have gotten lucky once, and got Curve, but seem to forget that most of the players complain out there simply because they have a real hard time making groups themselves, or joining/finding a group that doesn't require Curve achiev from week 2.

[Deleted]

Just use http://www.mythicplus.help/, works perfectly for raids as well. Get the addon, type /mph ingame, copy the output into the website and it displays everyones raid progress, as well as gear and traits and stuff.

And yeah, being 935+ gets you invited instantly pretty much everywhere right now.

Yea this is best addon/website for making pugs there is and will save lot of time.

I find it funny how some players expect RL to have some conversation with them and do some analysis of their past performance etc before inviting you. Just show they have never made pugs.

[Deleted]

I find it immensely amusing that literally the next thread on the front page is asking "is there an addon to detect the morons (his words) who use the fake achievement addon?"

Is there an add-on that reports if a rl is using a fake achievement add-on to detect my fake achievement?

[WskyDK]

Also, make sure the group you're looking at has a required ilvl.

I've never seen a group asking for 920+ and not having a mandatory ilvl succeed. It's always some shitheel RL looking for a carry.

[Meiffert]

I've never seen a group asking for 920+ and not having a mandatory ilvl succeed. It's always some shitheel RL looking for a carry.

That's the direct result of the "advice" in this thread:

Make your own group.

Someone isn't good enough (lacking experience or gear) to join a pug.
- "What should I do?"
- "Make your own group."

They try to make a "progress" group (accepting players who have never killed it and/or don't have good enough item level) for a moderately hard boss like KJ HC and obviously never get through phase 1.
"Learn their lesson."
Make a group with 920+ and "link Curve".

Now we have "curve" groups where the leader isn't good enough to do the boss (being it experience or gear), much less good enough to lead it.

It's getting really frustrating joining 10 different groups over the weekend for HC Host, inspecting the leader to find out he is 3/9hc, doesn't even know that he needs to split the raid into 2 groups.
If you give it a try anyway, it's a terrible wipe because 4 people are standing on the wrong side of the room the entire time until Dissonance kill them, others never move with soulbind, don't break bone armor, die from stacking Tormented Cries on top of another or spraying them all over the room.
You expect the leader to explain what went wrong and how to fix it or maybe even replace some players, but he can't because he doesn't know what happened and was one of the first to fail and die. Good times.

[Grevmak]

PUGs want to get through a raid quickly and the only way to assure people know every boss is to have them assure that they did, infact, already clear the place. Achievements are only fake-able with addons which most people don't use (1st hand experience so not a reliable source at all).

Whether you need to agree with that or not is not for me to decide but that's how it's been ever since Achievements and PUGing were a thing.

Search for a guild. If you say you don't have the time for that, open a group yourself. 99% of the time, people just quietly clear the bosses anyway unless someone does something wrong/is doing something absolutely dumb like trolling - in that case, kick the person.

[cparle87]

Is there an add-on that reports if a rl is using a fake achievement add-on to detect my fake achievement?

Addonception. Brilliant! /Grinch

[Deleted]

They should just stop giving out AotC during the tier, just award it after the tier ends similar to how the PvP Achievements are given.

How would this help the situation of PUG raiding end bosses? AotC shows you've killed the boss (and hopefully cleared all bosses) and you are able to do it again (if you weren't carried the first time). In my mind as long as you have appropriate ilvl in this case around 920-925 should be more than enough to clear ToS and having AotC it makes it more likely to get into groups. If AotC isn't given during the tier then people interested in forming groups will have a harder time forming competent groups and people trying to do content on alts will have a harder time getting into them.

I'm genuinely interested to hear how you think giving out AotC at the end of the tier would be better.

[Aeula]

You can't expect others to invite you if you don't have curve.

And yet they do...

[marulol]

get a high ilvl. if you're in the 930's youre more then likely to get in .

[Mlz]

Or maybe, just maybe, you know, you are in the top10% of the WoW playerbase ?
Just please try to look yourself at the logs. See how many have achieved heroic KJ, then divide it by 3 or 4 because the average heroic wow raider have at least 2 alts. Then compare it with ALL the players that exist in WoW.
I don't think you realize how much far ahead you are.
I'm in a heroic progression. I have only killed 3 or 4 bosses so far. Frankly I don't remember. But I do play a lot. It's just that I know I can't be in a great guild that would allow a deaf player to be in, and progress throughout the entire Heroic raid or mythic raid without it being either full of elitists jerks or full of virgins doing nothing but play their entire day while their mom bring their food.

I truly don't get your point. The guy I was talking about claimed that anyone can be carried to AoTC (which is true) and which is why groups should invite everyone and requiring an ilvl/achievement is toxic (lol). However, I pointed out that he is the prime example of a carry and although he hasn't done ToS yet, he has gotten his AoTC's purely because he is in a mythic guild that drags his sorry ass along while he is dying almost on every single boss to perfectly avoidable mechanics (and he admitted to being carried, not that it was needed as logs/armory don't lie). In old content. And then my point I was trying to get across was that the vast majority of people who actually want AoTC can pretty safely assume that the people they invite are better than that particular guy, therefore him saying that anyone can get carried and then get invited is true, yes, but it's also true that even if carried (or not), the vast majority people with achievements are better players than him and leaders know that by just applying common sense. I was never comparing him to the whole playerbase, only to those who actually do HC+. He is the very reason why people ask logs/armory/achievements etc. He is trying to do something that is way beyond his skill and gets all upset when people who are not his friends actually don't want to do stuff with him.

Also, most HC pugs don't require voice as far as I've seen, so no idea why you bring up your deafness.

And - being either full of elitists jerks or full of virgins doing nothing but play their entire day while their mom bring their food. That's just you being bitter and trying to project your own shortcomings on other people. You have literally no idea who these people are or what their lives are like but yet still you are claiming that they must be worse off than you because they do so much better in a game. Can't be simply that they are more intelligent, are quicker learners or have better hand+eye coordination or anything, nah. Must be because they are virgins.

[Druitz]

I was in "curve only group". I have even checked every single player if they have curve once i get invited as last healer and we havent even done second phase because someone always failed. It was like 3 fails every pull since i left.

Ir proves that curve means nothing, bad player will stay bad forever with or without achievement but pug groups will always require curve

[Mlz]

I was in "curve only group". I have even checked every single player if they have curve once i get invited as last healer and we havent even done second phase because someone always failed. It was like 3 fails every pull since i left.

Ir proves that curve means nothing, bad player will stay bad forever with or without achievement but pug groups will always require curve

You have one piece of anecdotal evidence where you joined a failed "curve" group and yet still you think the vast majority of groups must be like this. It proves that the group you joined was trash, nothing less and nothing more.

[Fleckens]

I'm not disagreeing with you about that carried part. It's the AotC that I find silly. If I wanted that achievement then I'd either need to :
Quit my very patient and very cool guild for one guild that'll probably ask you to do a LOT of chores for a small chance to have a spot (read : it's entirely possible you won't play any raids for a whole year. Obviously I'm exagerating, but you get the point).
or
Join PuG and pray to god you're rolled the perfect dice's score and progress throughout the entire run.

I think your idea of guilds able to kill KJ heroic is a bit exaggerated. Around 6.5k guilds killed him, at that level you got a lot of casual guilds. And in more high end guilds that are doing mythic heroic KJ is pretty easy so you could probably get in as social, at least we bring socials for our optional heroic runs on off days.