Mythic Sisters of the Moon - Questions & Discussion

[Deleted]

My guild is about to start progress on Sisters M, and I didn't see a Sisters M thread in the first few pages of this forum so I thought I would open one up for discussion.

Some questions to start of the discussion:

1. How do you setup the Astral Purge groups?

I've seen various ways of dealing with the Astral Purge ability, some raids use 6 groups of 3-4 players going over one at a time while others use only 4 groups of 5. Afaik having 6 groups smooths out the raid damage more than having 4 groups. However, there is also less time inbetween the Astral Purge groups, meaning less time to drop of Moon Burn inbetween, which leads to the next question. So it seems 6 groups is easier on the healers while 4 groups makes it easier on coordination. Opinions?

2. How do you deal with the Moon Burn debuff?

Do you just have the 2 people drop their Moon Burn inbetween Astral Purge groups, or do you have them going over at the same time as one of the groups?

3. Which phase do you use Bloodlust/Heroism on?

I've seen raids do it in both p2 and p3. What are the advantages of each one? Is it something that depends on your comp?

4. Is it worth sacrificing Incorporeal Shot targets in p3?

Also, are there still classes that can solo soak the Incorporeal Shot or cheese it in any other way?

5. This one is more specific to our raid, but which tank specs do you recommend using?

We currently have a Brewmaster, Prot Paladin and a Guardian available. Personally I think the Spellwarding will be very helpful for dealing with Rapid Shot and Beacons, but am unsure about the 2nd tank.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read and answer these questions, hopefully we can have a good discussion about the tactics of this fight.

[Youn]

So, far here is how we have been setting up.

1) 4-2-4-4-2-4
2) They just move over to next line that is going to be crossed. Having a 6 stack that goes away in 5 seconds is not nearly as bad as someone getting out of line and extending a 4 into another 4.
3) We are doing it in phase 3 but attrition seems to be killing us before we get full use of it.
4) I may be mistaken but if incorporeal shot only hits one person it spashes the entire raid for the overkill.
5) We are using DK and Guardian


Now, having said that we still haven't killed it. Though, we now have had 5 wipes at under 1%.

- - - Updated - - -

Note: The number one killer in this fight is Glaive Storm. It hits for about 3M. So, if your not topped off and get hit, you will die. If you get hit twice, you will die. By the second evening of this fight, you will know who can dodge a wrench and who cannot.

[Jotaux]

1&2)We use 4 groups and have the moon burns run through in between. Our raid leader calls out all the groups including the moon burns.
3) We use bloodlust when p2 starts.
4) We soaked all the incorporeal shots.
5) We've used pally, dk, druid and warrior with no issues.

[Temp name]

1. How do you setup the Astral Purge groups?

We go with 4 groups. We have 6 healers though. My guild is pretty bad at coordination though

2. How do you deal with the Moon Burn debuff?

The bads get to stand still until the line moves over them, the people who don't suck know how to time it themselves (Mostly inbetween the first 2, or the last 2 groups)

3. Which phase do you use Bloodlust/Heroism on?

We use it in the last phase, but that's because our raid doesn't understand how to not place beacon in melee. Use it on p2 during progress, and if you're struggling with p3, swap later. What kills you in p3 is pretty much entirely the glaive or terrible beacon placement

4. Is it worth sacrificing Incorporeal Shot targets in p3?

NO. You cannot sacrifice people. If you don't have like 4 people soaking, EVERYONE takes damage. It's completely pointless to try. What we do is have everyone stay until the glaive gets fired, then we stack up next to where it's going.

5. This one is more specific to our raid, but which tank specs do you recommend using?

Anything is fine really. The tank damage on this boss is minimal, and as long as you have at least 1 holy paladin you can pretty much just ignore them.

[ONCHEhap]

1 . My guild does 5 groups
5-4-2(tanks in the middle)-4-5

2 . Depends on the situation,our raid leader (who's also healing team leader) calls out when to go,but it's usually between 4th and 5th group as we have a larger gap between those two

3 . We used it at the start of phase 2,even though I don't really see any advantage in using it in P2.maybe because P3 is quite easy once your group gets used to the beacons

4 . No,if they die,the overkill is splashed to the raid,if they immune it,raid gets oneshot .Though on a very low boss health % and you have a lot of death,the splash damage might be less dangerous than actually sharing it,it's not something that can be prepared but more something that happens during the action.

5 . Sisters are a very easy boss to tank,so I'd say paladin for the utility,doesn't matter for second tank.I'm just gonna say bear because it's the default OP tank
We are using DK and bear (I'm the DK ) because that's our main tanks really,no reason to swap it out for sisters


Also : GLAIVE STORM : this is the most important part of everything here,in phase 2,you just need a little DPS on the boss to break the shield,in P3 you don't even have to DPS the boss.You raid needs to understand that dropping DPS to avoid getting shrekt is fine,this boss' DPS check is not an issue at all,you have to have a LOT of deaths to hit enrage.Once you get glaive storm down,you're 10 attempts away from a kill

[Deleted]

Thanks for all the great responses everyone!

Another question just popped up in our planning, namely what is the enrage timer? I seem to recall it being 10min but can't find anything to back that up.

[marulol]

5 groups of 4. we tried lusting in phase 2 but figured we had more trouble in p3 so we lusted in phase 3 and thats when we got our kill. we had multiple 5% or less wipes before that.

[l10f]

Enrage is 11 minutes. If you get into p3 with less than 4 deaths it should not be a problem to beat it. Once you get into p3 the only threatening thing is someone not noticing they have lunar beacon. Make sure everyone has a weakaura that tells them in a really obnoxious way that they have the debuff.

[Deleted]

Have to disagree with Incorporal Shot (above). We have any player who can immune it instantly popping immunity if we have higher than 14 people alive. It means the raid dips low, but the raid no longer needs to hug and risk Glaive Storm deaths

[Deleted]

1. How do you setup the Astral Purge groups?

I've seen various ways of dealing with the Astral Purge ability, some raids use 6 groups of 3-4 players going over one at a time while others use only 4 groups of 5. Afaik having 6 groups smooths out the raid damage more than having 4 groups. However, there is also less time inbetween the Astral Purge groups, meaning less time to drop of Moon Burn inbetween, which leads to the next question. So it seems 6 groups is easier on the healers while 4 groups makes it easier on coordination. Opinions?

With current health levels, getting 5-7 stacks is a non-issue, so I would go for 4 groups. There is just a lot more room to switch the debuff and about 10 seconds between groups for Moob Burn Targets to change and to let HoTs tick etc. 6 stacks do just 2 million damage per person total, so the raid is at ~60% health.

It is way more important to have people switch sharply and not prolong the debuff (only 2 seconds, but you can fuck it up a lot) into the next group and especially making sure you cross the line without triggering more than once than whether you have 4/5/6 groups switching.

2. How do you deal with the Moon Burn debuff?

Do you just have the 2 people drop their Moon Burn inbetween Astral Purge groups, or do you have them going over at the same time as one of the groups?

Ideally you want people to drop the debuff inbetween groups. But that takes a lot of awareness from the affected players and wil ltake some time. We had the rule "If you are competent, try to do it solo, if not, make sure to switch together with the next group!". "Worst case" scenario is 5 people + moonburn + a tank swtitching (twice) = 8 stacks which is about 2.7 million damage - so everyone still has 2 million HP left.

3. Which phase do you use Bloodlust/Heroism on?

I've seen raids do it in both p2 and p3. What are the advantages of each one? Is it something that depends on your comp?

Phase 2. I don't think it is harder than the others per se, but you have to use it some time and it should line up with CDs pretty well.

4. Is it worth sacrificing Incorporeal Shot targets in p3?

Also, are there still classes that can solo soak the Incorporeal Shot or cheese it in any other way?

I don't think it is worth it. If you can get to phase 3, soaking the Incorporeal Shot is easy already, because you have been doing it dozens of times. Afaik there is no way to cheese it (out Prot-Paladin said it is possible with Spellwarding tho). The hardest part of the fight is dodging GLaive Storm consistently and not fucking up the Debuff stacks, the rest is very easy.

For the shot just make sure that the targeted player runs wel behind the raid so that people have room "on the line" to move if they need to. ALso, the GLaive Storm always happens before the Shot goes through, so you always dodge the big Glaive and then soak the shot.

5. This one is more specific to our raid, but which tank specs do you recommend using?

We currently have a Brewmaster, Prot Paladin and a Guardian available. Personally I think the Spellwarding will be very helpful for dealing with Rapid Shot and Beacons, but am unsure about the 2nd tank.

Tanking was an absolute non-issue. They take very low damage. Paladin utility is nice to have tho.

One addition advice: the fight is pretty long. Healers tend to heal up the damage from the Astral Purge waaaaayyy to fast when you start this fight. They can and should take it easy, except Twilight Glaive/Moon Burn/Rapid Shot targets, no one will need direct external healing. Heal mana-efficient during the non-full-moon phases, because the fight takes 8 minutes.

[david0925]

1. 4 group + burn groups between melee and range groups will cause you to take more overall damage but give more error for people to screw up because the gaps between groups are larger.
2. If you go with 4 groups, they go between groups 1 and 2 and groups 3 and 4 (basically melee and ranged). If you go with more groups they just need to go with the next regular group because there are no good gaps in between groups anymore.
3. Do it in phase 3, unless you get a 3rd owl without Bloodlust, of if you are getting an additional ultimate phase. The normal phase here is the easiest of the 3, but the ultimate phase are more annoying to deal with.
4. You can't sacrifice or immunity Incorporeal Shot: the raid will take unsoaked damage anyway
5. Your best tanks. Neither tank has a significant advantage this fight.

[pappaslop]

You'll want to ensure that your raid is mindful of positioning in P3 especially. Raid markers can be very helpful as reference points.

Make sure everyone knows how Lunar Beacon works because it can easily attribute to a wipe... Once a player is targeted, they have six seconds to get into a good position which is typically "north/south" so-to-speak (boss spawn position/entrance). Lunar Beacon then will drop three circles - the player should stagger them as they do not come out instantly. You ideally want them as close as possible... Players with an immunity shouldn't use it too early and similarly, too late (if they are trying to stack them).

If you end up with a lot of deaths and your pull becomes increasingly sloppy - it can be worth sacrificing someone to Beacon if you're in range of a kill and there is literally no more room to move without taking damage/healers down too...

From an overall standpoint your main causes of failure will be glaive storm, poor line crossing and losing people to rapid shot if the healers are not mindful of spot healing (especially squishy people).

[Xinder]

My guild is about to start progress on Sisters M, and I didn't see a Sisters M thread in the first few pages of this forum so I thought I would open one up for discussion.

Some questions to start of the discussion:

1. How do you setup the Astral Purge groups?

I've seen various ways of dealing with the Astral Purge ability, some raids use 6 groups of 3-4 players going over one at a time while others use only 4 groups of 5. Afaik having 6 groups smooths out the raid damage more than having 4 groups. However, there is also less time inbetween the Astral Purge groups, meaning less time to drop of Moon Burn inbetween, which leads to the next question. So it seems 6 groups is easier on the healers while 4 groups makes it easier on coordination. Opinions?

2. How do you deal with the Moon Burn debuff?

Do you just have the 2 people drop their Moon Burn inbetween Astral Purge groups, or do you have them going over at the same time as one of the groups?

3. Which phase do you use Bloodlust/Heroism on?

I've seen raids do it in both p2 and p3. What are the advantages of each one? Is it something that depends on your comp?

4. Is it worth sacrificing Incorporeal Shot targets in p3?

Also, are there still classes that can solo soak the Incorporeal Shot or cheese it in any other way?

5. This one is more specific to our raid, but which tank specs do you recommend using?

We currently have a Brewmaster, Prot Paladin and a Guardian available. Personally I think the Spellwarding will be very helpful for dealing with Rapid Shot and Beacons, but am unsure about the 2nd tank.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to read and answer these questions, hopefully we can have a good discussion about the tactics of this fight.

1. My guild used 6 groups with 3 each and the the tanks were in the two middle groups with the other melee. We only used 6 melee (not counting tanks) and the rest were ranged+ healers. Everyone stands on their mark as the line passes and then after it passes you can move around as you need to if you need to get out of the way of a glaive or Twilight volley

2. Depending on when you get it you just cross the line again to drop it and keep running until you're standing with another groups marker. If you get it near the end of the moon phasing you'll have to focus that person and have them maybe run to the other side to drop it asap.

3. We were doing lust on phase 2 for Moontalon but we started realizing we didn't need it to be able to kill the bird fast enough so we started using it in p3 and that's how we got our kill and is how we do it on rekills.

4.As others have pointed out you can't solo soak the incorporeal shots. It has to hit people otherwise the remaining dmg goes to the whole raid.

5. We use a pally and dk tank in our guild.

Some other tips. Mages and I'm assuming rogues(caveat is I play a mage so I can only speak to that) can iceblock/cloak the moon burn debuff. When lunar becon starts in p3 have the person with the beacon be on the edge of the room and immune the beacon dmg if possible and if not have your healers spam heal them until all 4 rings have dropped. That way you get more room and don't die to lost space from lunar beacon. Also from the mage side if you iceblock a lunar beacon debuff you clear it and the rings don't drop at all. Assuming you iceblock before the rings start dropping.

[KaPe]

Something that's probably not a problem but can still help - BoP works against Rapid Shot, even though it's magical damage. The boss instantly stops firing and there's no damage. Not a big thing, but it can save a person getting Rapid into Eclipse with healing absorbs and glaive storm, which is usually quite messy.

[Raiju]

1. 6 groups as mentioned

2. People reset either on groups or wait. We largely told people to wait as moon burns damage was fairly irrelevant.

3. We BL'd p2, p3 is easy to keep going even with half the raid dead

4. I dont think it's worth saccing people unless you're less than 10 left, as a last resort

5. I'd recommend prot paladin on this fight. As one of the only ones where they are nice to have

Worth mentioning glaive storm is magical damage and bop wont save them even if it stops rapid fire. If you use a prot its better just to run spellwarding and then you can spellward a rapid shot whos likely to die overlapping with eclipse / glaive storm. They can use HoP's liberally to constantly catch people taking twilight glaives while not at full health, or on rapid fires, or similar. Likewise all damage a nontank is likely to take is magical of some variety (arcane, shadow, or spellshadow)

Since the tank damage is so irrelevant prior to p3 (And even in p3 you get a lot of time as a paladin to spare heals on others)

Any defensive someone has for stacking lunar beacon is helpful. Although if you have everyone alive in p3 I wouldn't stress super stacking them. We found the damage from it was trivial through a bear form + barkskin and similar.

[Dreamy]

We killed Sisters yesterday after about 30 pulls in total.
For some reason everything started off very good yesterday, we managed to get to phase 3 on the first pull of the evening. Even though we had only reached that point once before. People ran with the glaives so melee didn't have to move, people dodged the glaives in P2 and everyone handled the debuffs well.

We used the same tactic as many others above me, we had 3-3-4-4-3-3 nicely split up in a line on set markers. When I noticed people suddenly doing the stuff perfectly all that was left to do was to make sure P3 goes well, first couple of P3 attempts we had volleys etc everywhere and absolutely no place to move. Then on the 10th pull of the evening we killed it, it was the first time we went below 20% even. All we had to do was make sure volleys etc were stacked so we would have plenty of room. I think we only had 6-8 people alive for the last 300-400mil but that doesnt matter.
We're among the lowest of execution ranks and probably the slowest as well with over 10 minutes, but that doesn't matter when its dead

[onemoreshot]

Lunar Beacon targeting tanks in P3 is just dumb, esp when it targets a tank with aggro.