How Would You Feel if Sylvanas Dies?

[Requimortem]

So is getting killed by magic. So you know, point invalid.

How does that invalidate my point? Last I checked, getting killed by magic--unless it's a particularly painful and unpleasant type of magic--is no worse than getting slain by any other type of weapon. If anything, it's probably quicker and a lot less painful. That, however, still does not change the fact that nothing has exclusives rights over being "evil" so your moronic attempt at trying to pretend that chemical warfare isn't evil because demons are is laughable.

[The Iron Fist]

It's evil by their standards too but you know, continue proving my previous point correct.

Friendlyimmolation is a Horde and BE fanyboy. You just have to put him on ignore, no other solution. He sees the WoW universe in very black and white terms. He has a long history of justifying things that can't be justified.

With that said, no, Sylvanas should not be killed off. Characters like her and Garrosh add something to the game. When you take them out it leaves a massive void.

[Requimortem]

Friendlyimmolation is a Horde and BE fanyboy. You just have to put him on ignore, no other solution. He sees the WoW universe in very black and white terms. He has a long history of justifying things that can't be justified.

With that said, no, Sylvanas should not be killed off. Characters like her and Garrosh add something to the game. When you take them out it leaves a massive void.

Oh I know, this isn't my first time encountering him.

Garrosh could have been an interesting character had they decided to not pidgeonhole him into the role of generic villain in Mists of Pandaria. Sylvanas, however, has done far too much to be allowed to live. Redeeming her would be equally as terrible as Legion's story and make even less sense.

[The Iron Fist]

Oh I know, this isn't my first time encountering him.

Garrosh could have been an interesting character had they decided to not pidgeonhole him into the role of generic villain in Mists of Pandaria. Sylvanas, however, has done far too much to be allowed to live. Redeeming her would be equally as terrible as Legion's story and make even less sense.

Oh, I agree she's pure evil. I would never say shes redeemable or should be. However, its hard to have heroes on the other side without having a villain like her. It would be hard to progress Greymane's story, for example, without her.

[Friendlyimmolation]

How does that invalidate my point? Last I checked, getting killed by magic--unless it's a particularly painful and unpleasant type of magic--is no worse than getting slain by any other type of weapon. If anything, it's probably quicker and a lot less painful. That, however, still does not change the fact that nothing has exclusives rights over being "evil" so your moronic attempt at trying to pretend that chemical warfare isn't evil because demons are is laughable.

The blight kills in seconds, just like any other weapon. You won't crawl on the floor in agony after being gutted. You don't die days later from Gangrene. You wont need to have your limbs amputated. It doesn't destroy your soul. So what is your argument now, that only the blight is evil? Or that the blight is evil because I must be a necrophiliac?

[Deleted]

Depends how it happens. I'm not particularly attached to the character, but I'm not down with the forum hate bandwagon. I don't think she's a bad character (judging by videogame standards - low bar), and regularly find myself rolling my eyes at the usual "dumb bitch", "whore", "sylvanus" nonsense that people spew out all the time. Come up with an argument at least guys, that's just unimaginative.

Part of the reason I don't think she ever will be killed off, is that she basically IS the Forsaken. I don't believe there's another character that could fill her role. She shouldn't be Warchief though, and I think she doesn't want to be. Personally, my own take on her bargain with Helya was that she was trying to bring Vol'Jin back to life so she can go back to concerning herself with her own people. I'm certainly interested in seeing how that progresses.

Sylvanas/Alleria/Vereesa also have potential for some serious plot action coming up. If that storyline ends in her death, then so be it. But it better be handled well...

As for the idea that she needs redeeming in some way, that might make sense from an Alliance point of view - but from The Horde perspective, she really doesn't. Sure, she's dark. But that's the point, isn't it?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Friendlyimmolation is a Horde and BE fanyboy. You just have to put him on ignore, no other solution. He sees the WoW universe in very black and white terms. He has a long history of justifying things that can't be justified.

With that said, no, Sylvanas should not be killed off. Characters like her and Garrosh add something to the game. When you take them out it leaves a massive void.

And you're still triggered that I pointed out your headcanon what, a year ago at this point? Two? I mean holy hell you never did get over the fact that High elves are on the verge of extinction did you? Coming out of the woodwork to scream that I'm a blood elf fanboy, never gets old.

Ill give you a big hint on what race is my favorite, Its green and has tusks, and its not a troll.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh I know, this isn't my first time encountering him.

Garrosh could have been an interesting character had they decided to not pidgeonhole him into the role of generic villain in Mists of Pandaria. Sylvanas, however, has done far too much to be allowed to live. Redeeming her would be equally as terrible as Legion's story and make even less sense.

If by "encountering" you mean you make a nonsense post, and then immediately start calling people necrophiliacs when they point it out for what it is?

[Coffeh]

She shall be the new Lich Queen.

[Requimortem]

Oh, I agree she's pure evil. I would never say shes redeemable or should be. However, its hard to have heroes on the other side without having a villain like her. It would be hard to progress Greymane's story, for example, without her.

That may be true and while I do think the story between them is far more engaging than some pointless non-specific squabble between the two factions, one will have to die to progress the story and that of course will cause the other side to seek vengeance. Personally I think Sylvanas should die, the Forsaken should seek vengeance and then they can use this as an opportunity to have a new leader among the Horde rise up and rein them in. This would still give Blizzard room to write the Forsaken as petty and vindictive through various quests without being completely accepting of the events that transpired.

[otro]

Die bitch, just die!

[Shampro]

All the Alliance fanboys chiming in due to the thread's title.

Hilarious lmao.

[Schattenlied]

And then Sylvanas would either die

Doubt she'd die.

She could order his assassination and never go anywhere near him... The few idiots who retaliated would get plagued as soon as they made for Undercity.

or screw the horde over permanently, throwing it in a tailspin. Gee I wonder why she didn't do that?

What tailspin? Same thing would have happened when Garrosh was taken out in MoP, Vol'jin takes over.

The majority of the Horde knew Garrosh was a racist asshat, they would have understood her reasoning for killing him.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Doubt she'd die.

She could order his assassination and never go anywhere near him... The few idiots who retaliated would get plagued as soon as they made for Undercity.


What tailspin? Same thing would have happened when Garrosh was taken out in MoP, Vol'jin takes over.

The majority of the Horde knew Garrosh was a racist asshat, they would have understood her reasoning for killing him.

The major difference was that the Horde was still more or less firmly united. Even if she didn't do it herself, The forsaken would be blamed for him dying under mysterious circumstance in Forsaken territory. Vol'jin said himself he never trusted Sylvanas. It would gravely hurt the Horde, the Forsaken would be gone, the Blood elves would suddenly be cut off etc.

[Snackpack]

Can someone put all these Lore threads into the Lore section?

[Deventh]

All the Alliance fanboys chiming in due to the thread's title.

Hilarious lmao.

I play both Alliance and Horde and I'd go as far to say I play mostly alliance due to my Demon Hunter now, but I really don't want to see Sylvanas die and I think Blizzard's writing will be god damn poor if they pull another Garrosh thing.

[Gadzooks]

If she dies I'll basically give up all pretense that Blizzard knows what to do with the Horde. It's basically gone through a warchief per expansion since Cataclysm (well 1.5 expansions if we count the moment the rebellion started as the moment the Horde split from him). Blizzard should just keep things stable for a while on both sides. Especially with the Forsaken since there is no one to take her place. Nathanos would off himself the moment Sylvanas goes.

Like it's any better for the Alliance - they killed off Tirion for Anduin, who's done nothing of note, they pushed Jaina off the stage for cardboard cutout Kadghar, the gnome and dwarven leaders are treated as completely throwaway and not important, I'm not even sure if the Pandaren HAVE a leader at this point, and the only Alliance leader who's had anything of interest happen is Genn - and they turned him into a completely dislikable character.

It will be interesting to see what comes next. I don't have a whole lot of faith in the current dev team, anyway, so I expect more "streamlined" lore, focused on just one or two characters, and the rest ignored ignored and sidelined. I don't think they, and whatever writing staff is writing for WoW, can really handle multiple lore stories unfolding at once. Oh, yeah, they hired that hack writer, so that makes me even less interested in what they're dumping on y'all next time.

[Skoll Shorties]

It doesn't matter how YOU feel. They were leaders.

Nah. They weren't.

[Zulkhan]

Honestly, I would be ok with that as long three circumstances occurr:

-Vol'jin is brought back;
-A relevant figure is strongly and properly developed to take Sylvanas' place as Forsaken leader (Nathanos is the more likely, no Voss for fuck's sake);
-Sylvanas' story ends in a powerful and satisfying way, not dying like a villain and be Garrosh 2.0 but rather getting a fitting closing of the circle (something that, despite what the haters vehemently desire, seems to be the hinted outcome).

Failing on any of these three points would disappoint me enough.

Kind of a moot point since instead he stayed with the leader who was killing off people in his own faction.

Except he didn't. The first time you talk to Lor'themar after the Alliance deals failed he tells you of his ideas to prepare himself in case of an uprising against Garrosh and when that uprising happened, he readily cast his lot to Vol'jin and his rebellion. Hardly sticking to the Horde while magically ignoring the very Warchief who shitted on him and his people.

Nah. Never saw him as an Alliance Leader.

To be fair, he kinda was back in Classic and TBC, even though his relevance as Alliance leader began and ended in vanilla (in WotLK just became a quest giver ready to die in front of the Wrath Gate, like Saurfang Jr).

With that said, Bolvar's existence as Alliance-aligned character may have ended but at least he's still in-game and relevant enough. The same can't be said about the Horde leaders that bit the dust.

Friendlyimmolation is a Horde and BE fanyboy.

Said the "L2lore" guy with the hard on for HElves. Further props also for being a pretty great circlejerk masta.

However, its hard to have heroes on the other side without having a villain like her.

Sylvanas is no villain to the Horde. To them, Greymane is more a villain than her if you make a comparison. Plus, Greymane is no hero for the Alliance's side either, he's more of an anti-heroish character, given how vengeance it's pretty much his whole motivation. That's why he counterbalances Sylvanas very well (because, you know, just because he was the victim in their personal contention does not mean he's a goody-two-shoes character either).

All the Alliance fanboys chiming in due to the thread's title.

Hilarious lmao.

This post offends me. Too much necrophilia in it.

[Thage]

I think faction specific wars are easier to write in general. It's hard to make ALL of the Horde or ALL of the alliance hate each other. Instead, just convincing Forsake and Gilnean to fight is a far simpler battle to write. I think the writing of that conflict is actually pretty good considering it sparks hundreds of forum posts debating it.

In a vacuum, sure, they're written fine. In the context of the expansion, though, it's baffling. Greymane and Sylvanas had a firsthand look at how overwhelming the Legion invasion was, and their response is to leave the hero who's the best shot at stopping the Legion high and dry with no logistical support or extra manpower, leaving them to their own devices? Under different contexts (end-of-the-world-level demonic invasions are so not the time to air out one's dirty laundry), I agree that's the level of writing they ought to work toward for Alliance-Horde conflicts.

If we can get a few more factions/races to have some of those feuds, we might have a more compelling horde/alliance conflict without requiring a full scale plague or mana bomb

Well, that and they need to be a lot smarter about when they have these fights break out. Since WotLK the faction war has almost felt like an idiot-plot relying on meatheads with more testosterone than brains running dick-first at the other guy, leaving it up to the neutral team of the day to babysit.

edit: @Zulkhan I see Sylvanas's death, if it should come to pass, in one of three flavors:
1) Dramatic irony, where she turns on the Alliance and Horde and fully embraces her parallels to the Lich King and throws her lot in with the Old Gods (tying into Il'gynoth's and Varimathras's speeches).
2) Full circle by again sacrificing herself to stop a resurgent Scourge, if Bolvar ends up losing it.
3) Full circle (alt) by dying in defense of Quel'Thalas from a massive invasion; could tie into (2).

[Scrysis]

You can't argue with the necrophiliacs. Why waste your time?

LOL. You do have a point.
@Zulkhan @Thage


I think they've dug her in too deep to make her anything but a villain at this point. We found out from her suicide that she's damned to a terrifying existence in the void that she has only delayed with the Val'kyr. I can't remember where exactly, but it was either stated or implied that this may be the fate for all undead, which means she's essentially damning any new Forsaken to the same fate as herself (so much for that kumbai-ya thing about perpetuating the Forsaken race). Not only that, but she was torturing Eiyr for more Val'kyr just to save her own ass.

A heroic turn-around and self-sacrifice at this point would probably feel like weak and shallow writing (from my perspective). Sylvanas' focus is so narrow that it really prevents a lot of storytelling for the other factions (so she kind of has to die). I don't want players to kill her this time around, but it would be okay if NPCs did it.

Nathanos, as cool as he is, has already been set up to take the fall with her. It's all in the most recent short story that Blizzard published recently. Whatever her fate is what his fate will be. If she goes to the old gods, he's going to the old gods. If she dies, he dies. He won't be around to take over the Forsaken if she's removed. I think that they might possibly be setting Alleria up for that based on rumors (a bit of an extreme guess). Lillian Voss is an interesting character, but she HATES what she is. I can't see them putting her in charge.

What could be satisfying is a death-bed epiphany on her part. This would be a really lovely mirror of the same sort of thing that happened with Arthas as he was dying. Maybe seeing that she was being manipulated all along, etc.

I would love to see a return of Zul'jin. His story didn't feel finished, and we really didn't get to see him actually rule as Warchief, or even stand up as a strong character that it was hinted he could be. Maybe a raid encounter where we battle old god minions while he and Sylvanas duel to the death.