On The Propriety Of Punching Nazis

[Crispin]

Lol, Antifa aren't idiots?

Ssh kiddo, I'm trying to establish a pattern here, my next question would probably be "ever defended the nazis by saying the communists killed more people?"

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I have so many situations and theories and ideas now..

So, to the 'Punch a nazi' supporters.

Does this mean, I can punch ANYONE and claim they are a nazi? I mean, we're talking about something here which doesn't have any actual proof other than if they have something on them indicating. So, at my full belief and people supporting this bullshit idea of making assault legal when it is a nazi - I can punch whomever I want to?

I mean, if the police comes, I can claim the person is a nazi. But what happens now is where the problem is, by law, this is assault. If the 'nazi' has to give proof of being a nazi, than it can be faked or it'll turn into a witch hunt, which basically puts us in their shoes too.

So, now I've punched Bob but I can't find proof that Bob is a Nazi, I'll be booked for assault now.

And if they were to believe me, the court system would be fragmented, for I just assaulted a person.

Or...

As it seems some of you takes count of them having to think of genocide, I am still screwed, can't prove it. I can't use the claim that the nazis has killed thousands of people, for then I could as well just have punched any of the people from the majority religions. But if I punch a priest or such, that'll again, be assault..

Ofcourse you cant punch a guy and claim he's a nazi, are you retarded? Heck noone is even claiming its legal.

[Gutpile]

we (the Left) preach tolerance

lulz 10char

[Crispin]

Leftists usually don't practice what they preach.



People glorifying violence are fascists, even when that violence is directed at nazis.

Lol what? Fascism is an ideology just as nazism is, surprisingly also located on the far right. So antifa are now fascists? Seek help, I mean it.

[Gutpile]

Lol what? Fascism is an ideology just as nazism is, surprisingly also located on the far right. So antifa are now fascists? Seek help, I mean it.

Seek a dictionary, I mean it.

[Crispin]

lulz 10char

Incapable of reading the entire post? Dont worry, noone is surprised.

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Seek a dictionary, I mean it.

I'm sure you get the point, son.

[Lochton]

Ofcourse you cant punch a guy and claim he's a nazi, are you retarded? Heck noone is even claiming its legal.

Not as retarded as the 'Punch a nazi' supporters.

[Yvaelle]

I have so many situations and theories and ideas now..

So, to the 'Punch a nazi' supporters.

Does this mean, I can punch ANYONE and claim they are a nazi? I mean, we're talking about something here which doesn't have any actual proof other than if they have something on them indicating. So, at my full belief and people supporting this bullshit idea of making assault legal when it is a nazi - I can punch whomever I want to?

Physically assaulting people is generally not advised, because:
1) It's illegal, and you will go to jail
2) It's the second least effective way of convincing them of your point of view (the least effective is remaining silent/doing nothing)
3) Nazis are chicken-shits desperate to shoot people who disagree with them, so if you punch someone like Christopher Cantwell, his reaction will likely be to sob, run away, then come back with an assault rifle and mow you down from behind

With that said, 'Nazis' are not 'anyone' - it is not up to your subjective opinion or claim in the police report. If you haven't been paying attention to the news lately, there are a bunch of assholes cosplaying as literal Nazis, carrying Nazi flags, or shirts with Hilter quotes on them, or Nazi saluting, or chanting Nazi chants like "Blood & Soil!" "Jews will not replace us!", etc.

If it goose steps like a Nazi, and it cosplays like a Nazi, and it spouts hate like a Nazi, it's a Nazi. Nazis aren't "anyone you disagree with", they are "the people everyone disagrees with". Assault is still and should always remain illegal, but metaphorically punching down the Nazis on internet forums, or sacrificing decorum to silence Nazi protests by - as example yesterday - filling the entire square with counter-protestors before the Nazis arrived so they would have nowhere to stand at their own rally, or in other ways silencing Nazis: ideologically 'punching' Nazis is a still noble act, without condoning pointless violence.

[Sharein]

So antifa are now fascists? Seek help, I mean it.

Will you come with me? Antifa supporters are sick in the head after all. Every person promoting violence is sick in the head.

[Darkeon]

Aye, Yvaelle - everyone knows ANTIFA and the far-left, that push forth the "Bash the Fash" narrative, are all about Ideology 'punching' Nazis instead of physically doing so.

They also only target Nazis and never once labelled anyone that is not as such. It doesn't even happen on this website you are meant to be moderating, let alone out there.

[Sharein]

but metaphorically punching down the Nazis on internet forums, or sacrificing decorum to silence Nazi protests by - as example yesterday

And how about other kinds of hate speech? I assume those are fine?

[Dreknar20]

can I bunch homos cause I don't like them?

Its the same exact question.

You may want to, but legally you cant.

[Livnthedream]

I'm not recoiling against your post, I'm tired of how this always turns into a 100 page with the same inevitable conclusion: the Nazis lose, Liberty wins, like always.

So you are projecting rather than actually looking at my point. Stop it. Especially with the stupid 'your a right winger' subtext.

The reality is that your argument is made on the very poor assumption that the Left preaches absolute tolerance, even at the cost of net tolerance. Which is not true. The goal of the Left is tolerance, inasmuch as it can be achieved with respect to the Harm Principle.

No, my point is that "no tolerance of intolerance" is a shitty slogan and clearly not a rule. Otherwise there would be much more than minor infighting over things like Terfs. As long as they play for the right 'team' then being intolerant is fine. Which you tried to gloss over with the 'harm principle' bullshit, but always falls flat. You are willing to make the argument that 'cases should be heard', while at the same time forcing your sense of morality while castigating any others. As in, maybe, just maybe, all sides of the problem should be looked at and understood before a position is pushed. Especially when said position is held to the same standard as a religious one. IE 'Right side of history'.

Yes. All white supremacists are intolerant. That is what they are about.

Not all Muslims are.

You are allowed to pipe up when you answer my question of how many sources of Antifa stating that it is ok to hit anyone they suspect of wrongthink is ok before it actually belongs to Antifa.

Are you fucking kidding me? So you're defending nazis and find muslims to be intolerant? Let me guess, you think Antifa are idiots right?

Again, not defending 'Nazis'. At least no further than they are people with rights too, and no matter how much you may not like it, that will remain the case. I refuse to let you unperson them.

[Rooflesstoofless]

By this metric it is ok to napalm a communist.

[Dreknar20]

I mean... were people confused about which people were the bad guys in Indiana Jones?

good guys and bad guys. Those imaginary things that only exist in the minds of children and morons?

Dsnt matter why you punch someone you hate.
Because what they believe in or cause they suck dick or cause they stepped on your shoes.

You thinking your hate is 'justified' dsnt make your case different or unique. It makes it exactly the same as every other one.

[Mittens]

By this metric it is ok to napalm a communist.

For all the bullshit communists and socialists spill, their ideology isn't literally rooted on racial supremacy.

[Yvaelle]

You thinking your hate is 'justified' dsnt make your case different or unique. It makes it exactly the same as every other one.

Is your argument here that all hate is unjustified (nothing is worthy of our hatred or contempt or even subjective disapproval?), or that all hate is justified (all the hatred, contempt, and subjective disapproval that has ever existed has been correct)? I could interpret this either way.

So nobody is good: Mother Theresa? Secretly a selfish bitch in it for the post-mortem humility fame? Jesus? He only fed the poor to addict him to his self-worship. The innocence of babes? Mainstream media propaganda, babies are guilty from conception. Nothing is good?

Conversely, nothing is bad? Stalin - was assured those gulags were actually vacation resorts and thought he was sending his people away for mandatory vacation on the beautiful white beaches of Siberia. Hitler - actually a really great friend, was always there to help Joseph Goebbels move apartments. Cthulhu - has been to to the mountaintop (of madness) and has seen the promise land (Rl'yeh), he has a dream, and only wants to share his vision with the world. The Phantom Menace? Not a bad movie, for nothing is bad?

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Aye, Yvaelle - everyone knows ANTIFA and the far-left, that push forth the "Bash the Fash" narrative, are all about Ideology 'punching' Nazis instead of physically doing so.

They also only target Nazis and never once labelled anyone that is not as such. It doesn't even happen on this website you are meant to be moderating, let alone out there.

If someone, including a member of Antifa, punches someone merely for speaking their mind - they are committing assault, failing to convince the other person of their perspective, and opening themselves up to retaliation (legal or illegal).

What matters is what we choose to condone. I do not condone the use of pointless violence as proposed above: whether that's by anti-fascists or actual fascists.
Violence is sometimes permissible (has a point) when it is in the defense of the rights of yourself or others. Example: Killing Nazis (the WW2 varietal).

Pretending that the threat of violence by Antifa is comparable to the threats of total societal redesign proposed by actual fascists - is silly.
Antifa, at their worst, is proposing to punch actual Nazis who show up at rallies to attempt to lobby for the removal of everyone's rights.
Fascists & particularly self-proclaimed Nazis are proposing to kill minorities & non-supporters, and alluding to genocide in the name of white 'separatism'.
On its most violent day, Antifa is still a weak immune response to the modern existence of fascist movements, whereas fascists are preparing to incite a global race war: this is not equivalent.

[Dextroden]

Is your argument here that all hate is unjustified (nothing is worthy of our hatred or contempt or even subjective disapproval?), or that all hate is justified (all the hatred, contempt, and subjective disapproval that has ever existed has been correct)? It could interpret this either way.

So nobody is good: Mother Theresa? Secretly a selfish bitch in it for the post-mortem humility fame? Jesus? He only fed the poor to addict him to his self-worship. The innocence of babes? Mainstream media propaganda, babies are guilty from conception. Nothing is good?

Conversely, nothing is bad? Stalin - was assured those gulags were actually vacation resorts and thought he was sending his people away for mandatory vacation on the beautiful beaches of Siberia. Hitler - actually a really great friend, was always there to help Joseph Goebbels move apartments. Cthulhu - has been to to the mountaintop (of madness) and has seen the promise land (Rl'yeh), he has a dream, and only wants to share his vision with the world. The Phantom Menace? Not a bad movie, for nothing is bad?

So why are you good? Because Nazis have a terrible goal? No. It means you are against that terrible goal. You support the idiots by saying it's good to he violent and then backpedal tremendously by saying you don't support those actions.

"I don't think the violence is good!" Yep. That's why you keep pushing it and call people Nazis for disagreeing.

"We have to stop the Nazis!" Then get off the computer and get yourself thrown in jail for assault or shut your mouth.

[Yvaelle]

So why are you good?

I never made that claim. Also, for what it's worth, my name is homonym for Evil (Y-va Elle).

You support the idiots by saying it's good to he violent

Citation needed.

and then backpedal tremendously by saying you don't support those actions.

I didn't backpedal at all. Everyone has a right to be heard, your right ends when it impinges the rights of others: my position on this has been consistent since I was like 12.

"I don't think the violence is good!" Yep. That's why you keep pushing it and call people Nazis for disagreeing.

I haven't advocated for violence. Also, the only people I am calling Nazis are people who are literally self-identifying as Nazis - including wearing Nazi memorabilia, carrying Nazi flags, Nazi saluting, chanting Nazi chants, and defending the ideological principles of Nazis. I consider all of those actions to be self-identification as Nazis.

"We have to stop the Nazis!" Then get off the computer and get yourself thrown in jail for assault or shut your mouth.

They have a right to speak, we're here to hear it, and debate it. You stop Nazis by changing their minds - because their ideas are flawed - that's a lot more effective with forum posts than fisticuffs.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

[Dextroden]

Citation needed.



I didn't backpedal at all. Everyone has a right to be heard, your right ends when it impinges the rights of others: my position on this has been consistent since I was like 12.



I haven't advocated for violence. Also, the only people I am calling Nazis are people who are literally self-identifying as Nazis - including wearing Nazi memorabilia, carrying Nazi flags, Nazi saluting, chanting Nazi chants, and defending the ideological principles of Nazis. I consider all of those actions to be self-identification as Nazis.



They have a right to speak, we're here to hear it, and debate it. You stop Nazis by changing their minds - because their ideas are flawed - that's a lot more effective with forum posts than fisticuffs.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Fantastic. I'm surrounded by incompetent scoundrels on both sides.

If dogwhistling is so real, you do it yourself. Making it good and evil ensures every idiot that punches someone and runs or stabs or shoot someone, they are "good" for beating or killing a "Nazi".

Then we have Connal and "With us or against us". Because having to support violence is something "good" people would do to oppose Nazis. Or are we going to ignore the word Nazi apologist was thrown around like confetti?

Oh Lord. Speaking of that. Evenly enforcing the laws makes someone a Nazi apologist. You know who does that? THE FUCKING POLICE. It's their job to ensure neither side breaks the law. But i guess that makes them evil Nazi supporters.

I don't like Nazis. That doesn't mean i have to like this garbage because you called it "good". People looking for an excuse to commit assault or put on their grandaddy's uniform and pretend it's WW2 are not good. That's both sides.

Because We have patriotic scoundrels. Both groups think they are real Americans and will fix the country by fighting in the streets.

[Milchshake]

Well when people start shouting blood and soil and other racist or anti-semitic slogans, they're definitely punchable.