What would you do to change the current state of DH (Boring as fuck rotation)

[Deleted]

Get the souls as a primary mechanic next to fury so that we have something akin to a proc, but giving us more room to play around it.
Make momentum the best in row if redesigned to grant extra effects instead of plain damage.

Well, I don't know, tiers 106, 108 and 110 should be redesigned completely from scratch tbh, and we need more scaling (hello fire damage, miss chance, parry, CDs/amount of ticks being completely static, rng layers).

Doesn't help that one of our best talents turns our resource into rage, another turns it into energy, looks like they ran out of ideas by the second row...

[RadmaKanow]

DH feels underwhelming compared to other classes by a far shot.

Try Arcane or Frost Mage. Constant 1 spell spam. DH compared to this is a peak of sophistication. Building Fury attack, glaives, artifact, aoe (2 different), finisher/heavy dps ability, jump in/jump out - rather complex

Also - blame ability pruning. True - sometimes we had too many spells and abilities to pick from but limiting it to 3-4 major ones lead to this. Frost DK uses literally 2 strikes with occasional 2 more when debuffs drop. DH is fine.

[HeiAggra]

Try Arcane or Frost Mage. Constant 1 spell spam. DH compared to this is a peak of sophistication. Building Fury attack, glaives, artifact, aoe (2 different), finisher/heavy dps ability, jump in/jump out - rather complex

Also - blame ability pruning. True - sometimes we had too many spells and abilities to pick from but limiting it to 3-4 major ones lead to this. Frost DK uses literally 2 strikes with occasional 2 more when debuffs drop. DH is fine.

I hate to agree but you made a good point!

[Eazy]

Seriously? Nothing, I'd dumb down other classes to the DH level.

[HeiAggra]

Seriously? Nothing, I'd dumb down other classes to the DH level.

Then you would overcomplicate BM hunter, Frost/Arcane mage and Frost DK!

[Svisalith]

6) Change our Mastery or scale it better. Same for Agi scaling issue.
6b) Felblade dealing CHAOS DMGE for havoc !!! this is linked with point 6

Mastery is currently #2 (st) to #1 (aoe) stat if you're running chaos cleave while also giving runspeed bonus which makes it more useful than just the raw DPS that it gives

The main thing that makes it bad is that first blood or bloodlet both turn a huge chunk of your damage into Physical - suddenly you're doing around 70% chaos damage instead of >90% ST and none of that damage is buffed by Mastery at all so it's worth far less.

Felblade suffers from the same thing but doesn't do much damage and both of its alternatives work better with mastery, it's not nearly as impactful as that third talent row

[Eazy]

Then you would overcomplicate BM hunter, Frost/Arcane mage and Frost DK!

I just played DH, rogue, warrior, paladin and priest on the 110. Didn't know about the other classes... but thanks for sorting that out, lol.

[HeiAggra]

I just played DH, rogue, warrior, paladin and priest on the 110. Didn't know about the other classes... but thanks for sorting that out, lol.

Anytime friend

[Synthium]

Kill any chance of momentum returning and keep the spec as it is. I enjoy the rotation.

Rotation? Demon Hunter "rotates" nothing. There is no interaction between our spells.

1. You press Chaos Strike whenever you have 40 or more fury, without thinking about it.
2. You press Blade Dance whenever it comes off its 8 sec cd, without thinking about it.
3. You Felblade whenever it refreshes, without thinking about it. The only exception MIGHT be if there is <2 sec left of your Meta, so you'd want one more annihilation, if you wanna super min-max (that is, if you have 40 fury for it).
4. You pop your cds when they come off cd, with very little thinking about it (if you're halfway across the map soaking then you pop them when you reach the boss again, that kind of thinking, nothing too complex).

Now that is not rotation at all. The word rotation itself implies that you rotate something, you use abilities in circles while being mindful of their priorities and the interaction they have with each other. The latest example would be the amazing rotation Sub Rogues, Unholy DKs and WW Monks have. They have mindful interactions between their spells which makes good players of those specs distinguish from the bad ones.

Havoc DH has been designed in a way that the actual rotation (meaningful interaction between spells) has been replaced by nothing but RNG procs from your autoattacks because the class has been aimed at edgy kids who want to feel badass without actually having to learn how to be a badass. And yes, this is coming from a Havoc DH main who wants to see it changed for the next xpac.

[Sellest]

I play memebeam, because I don't like cookie cutter spec, it is much more satisfying to play. I recommend you give it a try instead of whining how bad DH is.

[Aeula]

Rotation? Demon Hunter "rotates" nothing. There is no interaction between our spells.

1. You press Chaos Strike whenever you have 40 or more fury, without thinking about it.
2. You press Blade Dance whenever it comes off its 8 sec cd, without thinking about it.
3. You Felblade whenever it refreshes, without thinking about it. The only exception MIGHT be if there is <2 sec left of your Meta, so you'd want one more annihilation, if you wanna super min-max (that is, if you have 40 fury for it).
4. You pop your cds when they come off cd, with very little thinking about it (if you're halfway across the map soaking then you pop them when you reach the boss again, that kind of thinking, nothing too complex).

Now that is not rotation at all. The word rotation itself implies that you rotate something, you use abilities in circles while being mindful of their priorities and the interaction they have with each other. The latest example would be the amazing rotation Sub Rogues, Unholy DKs and WW Monks have. They have mindful interactions between their spells which makes good players of those specs distinguish from the bad ones.

Havoc DH has been designed in a way that the actual rotation (meaningful interaction between spells) has been replaced by nothing but RNG procs from your autoattacks because the class has been aimed at edgy kids who want to feel badass without actually having to learn how to be a badass. And yes, this is coming from a Havoc DH main who wants to see it changed for the next xpac.

I use the eyebeam spec. More fun, less RNG.

If you don't like the way demon hunter plays go play another class instead of trying to ruin it for those of us who enjoy it.

[Synthium]

I use the eyebeam spec. More fun, less RNG.

If you don't like the way demon hunter plays go play another class instead of trying to ruin it for those of us who enjoy it.

No sorry I prefer to ruin it for the 3 of you that enjoy the spec.

[Kazzguhl]

I use the eyebeam spec. More fun, less RNG.
If you don't like the way demon hunter plays go play another class instead of trying to ruin it for those of us who enjoy it.

Less RNG ? Isn't Demonic even more RNG due to random pop of orb (location and time) and Crit/non crit on annhilation ?

I feel so much RNG with demonic that I'm adding Chaos Theory leg for pur gambling dps. During KJ HM, I have sometimes my EB up for the add, sometimes there are still 10sec left which is very impactfull on my dps.
Don't get me wrong, I like demonic build. But think the spec (class) needs a lot of things to be improved.

@Svisalith ; 2nd stat for 1.6% of TOS DH player (using Chaos Cleave)... As you are showing why it is bad/wierd, I don't get your point. Being 2nd or last stat depending on one talent (that blizz force us to use for an entire patch) isn't fine for me.

[Shirofune]

Mastery is currently #2 (st) to #1 (aoe) stat if you're running chaos cleave while also giving runspeed bonus which makes it more useful than just the raw DPS that it gives

The main thing that makes it bad is that first blood or bloodlet both turn a huge chunk of your damage into Physical - suddenly you're doing around 70% chaos damage instead of >90% ST and none of that damage is buffed by Mastery at all so it's worth far less.

Felblade suffers from the same thing but doesn't do much damage and both of its alternatives work better with mastery, it's not nearly as impactful as that third talent row

And who the fuck runs CC with T20?

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I use the eyebeam spec. More fun, less RNG.

If you don't like the way demon hunter plays go play another class instead of trying to ruin it for those of us who enjoy it.

Demonic has way MORE RNG than DBlades spec.

[epLe]

And who the fuck runs CC with T20?
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Demonic has way MORE RNG than DBlades spec.

CC is perfectly fine with T20+and soul ring.

RNG is a single entity, not a measurement of quantity.

[Synthium]

CC is perfectly fine with T20+and soul ring.

RNG is a single entity, not a measurement of quantity.

You don't run Soul of the Slayer unless you have literally NOTHING else to use. It has terrible stats and neither of the other 2 talents you can pick is better than going Anger + Shoulders/Belt/Cloak. If they didn't gut Bloodlet bracers, it could maybe be an option for dungeons where Anger is not as impactful. Other than that, Slayer ring is useless.

[Shirofune]

CC is perfectly fine with T20+and soul ring.

RNG is a single entity, not a measurement of quantity.

SotS is garbo. Sims show this.

And about the second point:

Demonic: 25% on CS use to spawn a soul. Eye Beam CD reduced by 5s per consumed soul. Generated fury (needed for CS) per consumed soul.Needs Eye Beam to perform. No Eye Beam = severe damage loss.
DBlades: 65% per AA to generate fury.

You're saying the 1st spec has less RNG involved? Lmao

[Svisalith]

Dblades runs with Felblade for ST and the combination have a lot of RNG

autoattack has to hit

dblades has to proc

amount of fury generated is then highly random

if felblade procs from the other demon blades proc or not is random


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DA has a lot of rng but Blind Fury, it's pair talent, does not have any. It's quite random on single target but a lot smoother with multiple targets as they smooth out the reset RNG while actually increasing the DPS on the primary target just by being around for you to feed off of them, some interesting interactions there.

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Fel Mastery + Prepared - the other build in the first 2 rows - has no RNG on the main fury gen, it just generates X fury on fel rush and Y fury on VR in stark contrast to the RNG flowchart of FB+DBlades. It plays very similarly otherwise but forces movement instead of that RNG, doesn't work well on some mythic fights.

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who runs CC with T20?

Manually selecting CCleave with t20 is a huge DPS loss and getting both CCleave and First Blood with SOTS is still a pretty significant DPS loss because SOTS has so few stats, i doubt you'll get good results with that.

CCleave comes into play with no tier, with tier 19 (surprisingly good next to underpowered t20) and with tier 21.

[Ysho]

What about putting Chaos Strike on a cooldown but significantly increasing it's damage? The fact that we need to bind CS to mousewheel to prevent physical hand/wrist pain is fucking ridiculous.

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SotS is garbo. Sims show this.

And about the second point:

Demonic: 25% on CS use to spawn a soul. Eye Beam CD reduced by 5s per consumed soul. Generated fury (needed for CS) per consumed soul.Needs Eye Beam to perform. No Eye Beam = severe damage loss.
DBlades: 65% per AA to generate fury.

You're saying the 1st spec has less RNG involved? Lmao

have you used Soul of the Slayer on Desolate Host (blade dance+Mo'args) or with memebeam spec+T20 (chaos cleave)? It may be situational but it's not garbage.

[Jastall]

Make Demonic the best talent.

Change Demon's Bite into something that doesn't hurt my soul to press (a lot more damage and/or more reliable Fury generation).

There, Havoc is fun now.