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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    Are you really saying that WotLK had more content than Legion? Sorry, but that's just simply not true. Time to take off those rose-tinted glasses.
    This is true.

    You can't count. Or, rather, you didn't even try to count. You are just repeating the BS that Legion has a lot of content without ever actually counting. I am telling you that this is BS. The only reason this BS is widespread is because people who know that it is BS have just left the game already. Legion has been losing people since the very beginning. In some areas it was losing them quicker than even WoD (go figure).
    Last edited by rda; 2017-08-23 at 03:26 PM.

  2. #142
    Immortal Tharkkun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    So they bring the information we already have access to on sites like this at Gamescom instead of something more exiting?

    I have the same level of demon fatique I had for Orcs at the end of WoD now and I need some good news already
    Most people don't read fan sites and data mining pages. So big conventions like this reach out to all their fans.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    Are you really saying that WotLK had more content than Legion? Sorry, but that's just simply not true. Time to take off those rose-tinted glasses.
    Legion has more repeatable content and deeper quest lines but outside of leveling content it has less. World quests were just repeats of the standard quests you did.
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  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Legion has more repeatable content and deeper quest lines but outside of leveling content it has less. World quests were just repeats of the standard quests you did.
    Exactly.

    This is the main disconnect - and maybe I should be clearer about what I mean by "more content" to avoid it. What Legion has more of is endless or near-endless grinds. There are several piles of numbers with so many steps that you always have something to do. But the problem is (well, my problem, although it is shared by many others - I, again, will note that Legion has been losing people pretty fast, and I think this is a big part as to why) that these several piles of numbers are just repeats of several small pieces of content, that's it. In prior expansions they had MORE different pieces of content. Vastly more. Legion has LESS different pieces of content, much less variety, but it puts 135 difficulty modes onto the few pieces it has and then the devs declare that since you always have something to do, this is lots of content and things are great. Nah, they aren't great.

    Their lesson after WoD was presumably that giving people little to do is bad (doh, right? who'd have thought...). Their lesson after Legion should then be that no, piling up a hundred numeric modifiers onto a small amount of content does not fix much.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    In prior expansions they had MORE different pieces of content. Vastly more. Legion has LESS different pieces of content, much less variety, but it puts 135 difficulty modes onto each and then the devs declare that since you always have something to do, this is lots of content and things are great. Nah, they aren't great.
    Oh, really? Care to give me an example of that 'varied content' from WotLK?

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    This is true.

    You can't count. Or, rather, you didn't even try to count. You are just repeating the BS that Legion has a lot of content without ever actually counting. I am telling you that this is BS. The only reason this BS is widespread is because people who know that it is BS have just left the game already. Legion has been losing people since the very beginning. In some areas it was losing them quicker than even WoD (go figure).
    Counting content, lol.
    I think the word you're looking for is "measure".

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    Oh, really? Care to give me an example of that 'varied content' from WotLK?
    Read previous posts for example things WotLK added that Legion can't even begin to compare to.
    Last edited by rda; 2017-08-23 at 03:42 PM.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    WotLK had more content than Legion. Try finding me something on the scale of achievements in Legion, for example. You cannot.
    World Quests comes to mind. Also transmog 2.0. But that isn't content, that's a game system. Yeah, Achievements was a big deal. Guess what? So was transmogrification, and no one is falling all over Cataclysm praising how much content it had.

    The bigger issue is, you can't judge an expansion until it is complete. If I were to judge expansion by the content they had solely at launch, for example, WoD would rank very high. But WoD was, in my mind, the weakest expansion to date, in part because of the sheer length of the content droughts. Legion, so far, has provided far more content than WoD or Cataclysm, and is - I think - on par with MoP already. If they can stick the landing, and by that I mean have a buttload of content in Argus followed up quickly by the new expansion, then Legion will rank at the top of the Expansion list for me. But if we get Argus then another 12 month+ long drought? I may be gone for good.
    Last edited by Monteverdi; 2017-08-23 at 03:48 PM.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by VyersReaver View Post
    Counting content, lol.
    I think the word you're looking for is "measure".
    I wanted "count". As in, count things. You know, features.

  9. #149
    Dreadlord Averrix's Avatar
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    Why would they announce the new xpac as Gamescon when they have Blizzcon in November?

  10. #150
    Yep they do that at their big show which is why there is nothing exciting to see with WoW or D3 at GC.

    I'm praying for a new D3 Xpac, i need a reason to stop playing wow after almost 13 years lol

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Read previous posts for example things WotLK added that Legion can't even begin to compare to.
    So, no examples then? Thought so.

    All I can see is "WotLK had achievemnets!!!!!!"

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    World Quests comes to mind. Also transmog 2.0. But that isn't content, that's a game system. Yeah, Achievements was a big deal. Guess what? So was transmogrification, and no one is falling all over Cataclysm praising how much content it had.
    If you don't want to use the word "content", we can avoid it.

    Both world quests and transmog 2.0 are stuff that provides novelty and gives players an incentive to do new things they haven't been doing before. Note the word "new". The amount of "new" matters.

    Alas, the amount of "new" in things added by Legion is much less than the amount of "new" in things added by previous expansions. That's my main point.

    I know why they are doing what they are doing - which is doing less features and trying to compensate by adding more numeric modifiers. They are doing this because they want to save effort. Perhaps they see WoW as a dying elephant that they will, of course, try to keep afloat for as long as possible, because it provides money, but it is better not to put too much effort into it and diversify like hell as it can die any day now. But understanding why they are doing this does not change that this reflects badly on the game. That's all. /shrug

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    The bigger issue is, you can't judge an expansion until it is complete. If I were to judge expansion by the content they had solely at launch, for example, WoD would rank very high. But WoD was, in my mind, the weakest expansion to date, in part because of the sheer length of the content droughts. Legion, so far, has provided far more content than WoD or Cataclysm, and is - I think - on par with MoP already. If they can stick the landing, and by that I mean have a buttload of content in Argus followed up quickly by the new expansion, then Legion will rank at the top of the Expansion list for me. But if we get Argus then another 12 month+ long drought? I may be gone for good.
    I agree and let's wait until Legion is complete, but, frankly, I don't know why anyone should be hopeful. At 7.0 they managed to vow people into thinking that they will have tons and tons of content coming, new processes, not WoD, the disaster is behind, it's not just what is there at release, bla bla bla, all that. Then 7.1 kind of delivered and people got hopeful, me included. But then there came a period of nothing and the content started to show holes and the holes were not being fixed for a long time despite the new processes and the disasters being presumably behind, etc. And then there came 7.2 which was just a huge let down because of huge time gates, and, quite honestly, very little to do even after time gates... and now 7.3 isn't even here yet. I find it hard to expect miracles. It looks like what we will have is just 7.3 and another year of nothing. (OK, there will be a token patch so that the word "nothing" won't be true, but just technically.) Which means that sure, let's wait until Legion is complete, but I believe we already saw 95% of what there is to see.
    Last edited by rda; 2017-08-23 at 04:02 PM.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triforcewolf View Post
    Is Legion even over yet? Have we defeated the main boss of the expansion? If not why are people so concerned with a new expansion right now? Are people so dissatisfied with Legion right now that they want a new expansion?
    It is not really about that. It is about knowing the roadmap.

    Blizzard usually takes 11-12 months from announcement to expac release. Always been the case for every expac till date.
    If you wait for after the 7.3 patch, you are easily looking at a 12 month of 7.3. It is going to be fairly brutal downtime if that is the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The main function of Mythic mode for most players is to act as a reminder that, compared to that 1%, they suck.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    If you don't want to use the word "content", we can avoid it.

    Both world quests and transmog 2.0 are stuff that provides novelty and gives players an incentive to do new things they haven't been doing before. Note the word "new". The amount of "new" matters.

    Alas, the amount of "new" in things added by Legion is much less than the amount of "new" in things added by previous expansions. That's my main point.

    I know why they are doing what they are doing - which is doing less features and trying to compensate by adding more numeric modifiers. They are doing this because they want to save effort. Perhaps they see WoW as a dying elephant that they will, of course, try to keep afloat for as long as possible, because it provides money, but it is better not to put too much effort into it and diversify like hell as it can die any day now. But understanding why they are doing this does not change that this reflects badly on the game. That's all. /shrug
    I'm fine with talking about content, but it seems you're focused on game system (achievements, etc.) which are big, but not content. Again, one of the big systems added in an expansion, the one thing I can think of that competes with achievements, is transmogrification. That was added in Cataclysm, and Cataclysm was notoriously scarce in the content department.

    And you're right, WotLK did have a ton of content. 4 tiers of raiding (I don't think ToC should be counted as a whole tier, but still, impressive). A new class, new profession. Wintergrasp PVP/PVE zone. Plenty of 5-mans and three additional 5-mans added over the course of the expansion. For the first time, we had multiple difficulties per raid instance.

    But you're kidding yourself if you're saying Legion doesn't have plenty of content. World quests get max level players out into the world instead of focused in one area. Several new 5 mans have been added or are being added in 7.3. New class. Two solid raid tiers so far, with another on the way. A continued source of progression past max level via your artifact, via PVP prestige, etc. Endgame questing content like Suramar and the soon-to-be released Argus zones. Profession questlines.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Monteverdi View Post
    But you're kidding yourself if you're saying Legion doesn't have plenty of content. World quests get max level players out into the world instead of focused in one area. Several new 5 mans have been added or are being added in 7.3. New class. Two solid raid tiers so far, with another on the way. A continued source of progression past max level via your artifact, via PVP prestige, etc. Endgame questing content like Suramar and the soon-to-be released Argus zones. Profession questlines.
    Here is what I am looking for and not finding - something big and new. Something that would give me reason to do new things and provide a lot of these new things to do. Where is it?

    We talked about WotLK and achievements. I mentioned alts, there is a lot to say here as well, it's a really big thing that provided a huge amount of newness and yes, changes in WotLK were key for that. But let me give one more example to underline that it wasn't just WotLK that was good in terms of adding new stuff - let's take MoP. There were several big things added in MoP, one of them was pet battles. It is a huge system with plenty of things to do which you never did before. (For those who'd say here that they aren't into pet battle systems, that's just one of such big things MoP added and I am simply using it as an example, imagine the feature you are into instead.) It introduced new concepts and it introduced them in such quantities that you had new things you could never try before going for like a hundred of hours. And that's before you started optimizing or, say, pet-battle-PVPing.

    Where are such things in Legion?

    Transmog 2.0 could be it, but alas we already had transmog before. If we didn't have transmog before and Legion added it, great, that would have provided for a lot of new stuff to do. And if there were several such things then I wouldn't have been talking Legion down and would have been praising Blizzard the almighty. But alas, what Legion delivered was just an incremental update. Not much new to do - just plain not much, if you have been collecting transmog, you even had most of the stuff already. World quests that you mention are very little new either - they just provided max-level versions for a couple of hundred of quests and moved other quests that would normally be in leveling to max-level only. The number of leveling quests in Legion reduced significantly compared to previous expansions - maybe it's good that the variety shifted to max-level, but... you can see that the variety didn't increase, it just shifted - that's not much. And it's the same picture regarding everything.

    What they are doing in Legion is invariably a ton more repetition and a ton less variety.

    But let's wait until Legion is finished as you suggest. Maybe there will be a miracle indeed. (Although I doubt it.)
    Last edited by rda; 2017-08-23 at 04:28 PM.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Here is what I am looking for and not finding - something big and new. Something that would give me reason to do new things and provide a lot of these new things to do. Where is it?
    I don't really care about how much "new" tech and stuff there is...I care about how much stuff I can do, how much content there is to consume, how much time this stuff allows me to enjoy myself in game.

    Legion does that better than previous expansions.

    All of the systems that were added in previous expansions are still preset in Legion and therefore provide the same level of enjoyment, or even more so because they have improved it in some cases. Why does that matter though? Legion as an expansion still has a shitload of stuff to do regardless of how old or new the system used to put that content in place is.

    Why does it ultimately matter if it has more or less than previous expansions? The question you should be asking is whether or not you're enjoying yourself...having fun. For me, and it seems many others because the opinion of Legion having more stuff to do than others expansions had to come from somewhere, is yes.

  17. #157
    High Overlord Grevmak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I don't really care about how much "new" tech and stuff there is...I care about how much stuff I can do, how much content there is to consume, how much time this stuff allows me to enjoy myself in game.

    Legion does that better than previous expansions.

    All of the systems that were added in previous expansions are still preset in Legion and therefore provide the same level of enjoyment, or even more so because they have improved it in some cases. Why does that matter though? Legion as an expansion still has a shitload of stuff to do regardless of how old or new the system used to put that content in place is.

    Why does it ultimately matter if it has more or less than previous expansions? The question you should be asking is whether or not you're enjoying yourself...having fun. For me, and it seems many others because the opinion of Legion having more stuff to do than others expansions had to come from somewhere, is yes.
    Agreed. Legion has a lot of cool stuff and if future expansions can build upon that, WoW will become even better than it is right now.

    I'm enjoying Legion's content quite a bit and to OP: Yes. No new announcement. Consider me surprised, I honestly thought there would be one.

  18. #158
    Stood in the Fire TheRealDavidTwo's Avatar
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    Such a missed opportunity. Enjoy your 12 months of 7.3

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealDavidTwo View Post
    Such a missed opportunity. Enjoy your 12 months of 7.3
    I will. I still have to do lot of stuff to complete (most involve alts of course) and if I do all before Legion end, I'll just unsubsribe and enjoy other games.

    Few months break from WoW is healthy. If you don't do it, you'll burn out at some point and leave game for good (or become a whiner, if addiction is too strong).

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Legion as an expansion still has a shitload of stuff to do
    Like what?
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

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