[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Ilikegreenfire]

Considering their size is equal to a passenger jet I don't have any doubt that they can swing across Westeros in a couple of hours. If people have a time issue here, it must not be with Dany arriving as fast, but the raven getting to Dany. That I can give them... but then again who the fuck knows what kind of ravens they're using...?

If only they made them wait for TWO days on that ice thing, almost freezing to death before she arrives. This rather pointless discussion could have been avoided.

WE have no idea how long they were on the island, they used thoros as a campfire, and were still talking about getting close to freezing to death so it could have been a few days.

And or give the locations latitude it could have gotten dark relatively early in the day, like what happens irl. They shouldn't have to have intro text with dates and time at the start of every scene, this isn't 24.

[StayTuned]

WE have no idea how long they were on the island, they used thoros as a campfire, and were still talking about getting close to freezing to death so it could have been a few days.

And or give the locations latitude it could have gotten dark relatively early in the day, like what happens irl. They shouldn't have to have intro text with dates and time at the start of every scene, this isn't 24.

Just to be clear, I think we're on the same page here, no?

[Ilikegreenfire]

Just to be clear, I think we're on the same page here, no?

I think so, its my day off so its hard to tell, sorry if i come off as an asshole.

[Rotted]

The funny part of all this is that multiple people have been doing the math on the ravens, dragons and ice forming speeds what whatnot and it isn’t that farfetched as people are claiming it to be… honestly it seems that a lot of this outrage actually comes from people being unable to keep up with the time skips, every time a character crosses over a large distance between 2 scenes instead of assuming a large amount of time has passed between them, they just go for the “zomg teleport kek!”.

I don't mind time skips and I don't mind the little bending here or there of the 'rules' but this episode was rather absurd. I didn't think to much of it until Gendry ran the distance back to the keep in the equivalent of a few hours, that was just didn't bend the rules it broke them in two so to speak. I also don't think it helps that all the way up to season 7 we had a gradual passing of time, which wasn't noticeable but got on with it. S7 is the opposite of that

[jimboa24]

The ravens in Game of Thrones are magic mutant birds that can fly a hundred miles per hour.

PROBLEM FUCKING SOLVED.

/thread

[Ilikegreenfire]

I don't mind time skips and I don't mind the little bending here or there of the 'rules' but this episode was rather absurd. I didn't think to much of it until Gendry ran the distance back to the keep in the equivalent of a few hours, that was just didn't bend the rules it broke them in two so to speak. I also don't think it helps that all the way up to season 7 we had a gradual passing of time, which wasn't noticeable but got on with it. S7 is the opposite of that

They were already next to the wall, the part were they ambush the white walker is the same valley the pass earlier in the episode. They backtracked after Thoros gets bitten.

[Arrowstormen]

The ravens in Game of Thrones are magic mutant birds that can fly a hundred miles per hour.

PROBLEM FUCKING SOLVED.

/thread

The ravens are the least problematic part of the whole thing.

[Arrowstormen]

Seriously, how can dragons breath fire? And what's up with those flaming swords? So much of this is unrealistic...

People trying to use the fantasy elements as an explanation for the impossible things people are complaining about appear to have a very bad understanding of fantasy.

[Ilikegreenfire]

The ravens are the least problematic part of the whole thing.

What do you have a problem with?

[RobertoCarlos]

The entire show requires a suspension of disbelief and getting hung up on the flight times of ravens and the like is ridiculous at this point.

Not when you look at the series as a whole and rewatch it, then wonder why season 1-3 is so different from season 6

[La]

The entire show requires a suspension of disbelief and getting hung up on the flight times of ravens and the like is ridiculous at this point.

Uh, not exactly. Fantasy making sense would be having an animal that's like a raven, but instead can fly at super, crazy fast speeds because it's not a raven, it's a braven, unique to the world of..wherever. Not, hey it's just a regular raven. It's shitty writing.

[Mascotte]

People trying to use the fantasy elements as an explanation for the impossible things people are complaining about appear to have a very bad understanding of fantasy.

And people complaining for a full week (this happened right after the leak) about a few details concerning time, doing math on purely fictional content to conclude its not possible (honestly, wtf) and then dismiss the entire episode as garbage are having problems with putting things into perspective.
We just had 2 awesome episodes back to back with an 80minute finale coming up that shows great promise based on the trailer and here we are talking about ravenspeed and dragonflight miles per hour.

Yeah...

[Kelato]

Uh, not exactly. Fantasy making sense would be having an animal that's like a raven, but instead can fly at super, crazy fast speeds because it's not a raven, it's a braven, unique to the world of..wherever. Not, hey it's just a regular raven. It's shitty writing.

Regular ravens can't be used to send messages, so it must be something else. In this context those creatures might also be faster than our regular earthly ravens.

[RobertoCarlos]

And people complaining for a full week (this happened right after the leak) about a few details concerning time, doing math on purely fictional content to conclude its not possible (honestly, wtf) and then dismiss the entire episode as garbage are having problems with putting things into perspective.
We just had 2 awesome episodes back to back with an 80minute finale coming up that shows great promise based on the trailer and here we are talking about ravenspeed and dragonflight miles per hour.

Yeah...

The director of the episode himself said they pushed the realms of possibility and hoped the story momentum would make people ignore it. So can't be that silly if the director feels he needs to release a quote to defend it

[Arrowstormen]

And people complaining for a full week (this happened right after the leak) about a few details concerning time, doing math on purely fictional content to conclude its not possible (honestly, wtf) and then dismiss the entire episode as garbage are having problems with putting things into perspective.
We just had 2 awesome episodes back to back with an 80minute finale coming up that shows great promise based on the trailer and here we are talking about ravenspeed and dragonflight miles per hour.

Yeah...

Look. I'm happy some people still like the show, but I've had issues with the show since season 5, and this season has made those issues constantly flare up. This has turned into a fantasy epic blockbuster and is no longer the clever, complex show of politics, intrigue, and interesting characters that a lot of people fell in love with, and is simply using what was build in the first four seasons for your standard heroic fantasy. Which I would be fine with if it didn't clash so heavily with what has come before.

There's no sense of time, which removes a lot of the epic and complex feeling. Everything has a very narrow focus, with simple, one-dimensional characters, with some cheap drama that doesn't make a ton of sense (both Dany not believing white walkers existing and Jon not wanting to bend the knee was abandoned as soon as it was no longer convenient). This mission was incredibly stupid and makes everyone involved seem incredibly stupid.

If Dany could easily fly up to the Wall and back in a couple of hours, she had no reason to not just do that instead of stalling and have Jon sit around on Dragonstone while they had their Lannister war.

And when we cut away from the mission, we are given an annoying subplot at Winterfell which drags down both Arya and Sansa. Also, we get to hear how Jon apparently doesn't bother to send a letter about his whereabouts, despite the fact that we in the same episode see ravens deliver messages super quickly.

Jon leaving Winterfell so easily in the first place bugged me, because leaving his post was pretty much what got him killed. He's character didn't develop at all after his death in season 6, in fact he got kinda boring and overshadowed by Sansa the whole season, and now he's the king in the north, yet personally goes on more missions and travels more than anyone else in the North.

Hardhome never happens in the books, partly because Jon never goes himself to pick up the wildlings with the boats. Why? Because he's the Lord Commander, duh. He can't just run on errands, he has people for that! But in the show he does, which I can somewhat live with. But the King in the North going on this stupid mission with some ragtag group of mostly strangers? That's harder to swallow.

[Ilikegreenfire]

Uh, not exactly. Fantasy making sense would be having an animal that's like a raven, but instead can fly at super, crazy fast speeds because it's not a raven, it's a braven, unique to the world of..wherever. Not, hey it's just a regular raven. It's shitty writing.

Asoaif carrier ravens are unique to the world, they arnt like ours, they are noticeably stronger fkyers carrier pigeons, meaning they would fly at least around ~70mp but could go all the way to 100 mph or more as grrm never states a hard limit, all he says is that they are stronger flyers than carrier pigeons

Most ravens will eat grain, but they prefer flesh. It makes them strong, and I fear they relish the taste of blood. In that they are like men ... and like men, not all ravens are alike. Doves and pigeons can also be trained to carry messages, though the raven is a stronger flyer, larger, bolder, far more clever, better able to defend itself against hawks ... yet ravens are black, and they eat the dead, so some godly men abhor them.

.

[Rotted]

They were already next to the wall, the part were they ambush the white walker is the same valley the pass earlier in the episode. They backtracked after Thoros gets bitten.

I thought they were going to back track and abandon the mission, but Thoros said to keep going?

[Ilikegreenfire]

Look. I'm happy some people still like the show, but I've had issues with the show since season 5, and this season has made those issues constantly flare up. This has turned into a fantasy epic blockbuster and is no longer the clever, complex show of politics, intrigue, and interesting characters that a lot of people fell in love with, and is simply using what was build in the first four seasons for your standard heroic fantasy. Which I would be fine with if it didn't clash so heavily with what has come before.

There's no sense of time, which removes a lot of the epic and complex feeling. Everything has a very narrow focus, with simple, one-dimensional characters, with some cheap drama that doesn't make a ton of sense (both Dany not believing white walkers existing and Jon not wanting to bend the knee was abandoned as soon as it was no longer convenient). This mission was incredibly stupid and makes everyone involved seem incredibly stupid.

There is a sense of time, there is nothing wrong about gendry running to the wall or the raven flight. we have already established this, stop bying into the shit websites are trying to feed you, this is the whole sansa rape controversy 2.0.

People won't believe in shit like the dead and giants unless they see then, in the battle for the wall Janos pretty much goes crazy when he sees the giants. Dany's whole shtick is about how she thinks she is the special one, last episode she finally realizing Jon is as special as her.

Jon is in love with her. People do dumb things for love, like break vows to powerful lords for a disinherited nurse. And in Jon's case its not really dumb, he has a chance to marry dany, and thus placate the northern lords anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

I thought they were going to back track and abandon the mission, but Thoros said to keep going?

He shook his head no to the flaming sword, he wanted a swing of his flask before the cauterization. The geography is the exact same, they backtracked. if they were pressing on they wouldn't have brought thoros along, they would have either sent someone with him to the wall or mercy killed him.

[Arrowstormen]

There is a sense of time, there is nothing wrong about gendry running to the wall or the raven flight. we have already established this, stop bying into the shit websites are trying to feed you, this is the whole sansa rape controversy 2.0.

People won't believe in shit like the dead and giants unless they see then, in the battle for the wall Janos pretty much goes crazy when he sees the giants. Dany's whole shtick is about how she thinks she is the special one, last episode she finally realizing Jon is as special has her.

Jon is in love with her. People do dumb things for love, like break vows to powerful lords for a disinherited nurse. And in Jon's case its not really dumb, he has a chance to marry dany, and thus placate the northern lords anyway.

Yeah, not really feeling the whole love thing either. It could happen in the books, but the show's not making me buy it currently.

Also, I wasn't fed by websites. When I watched this episode, I was fuming, and honestly, it doesn't even matter if it makes sense or not, it didn't work in my experience, which is what is all comes down to.

[RobertoCarlos]

I cant rewatch the dany/jon Bed scene without cringing or laughing. It was awefully bad fanservice.

Shame because Jon actually had a nice speech this season when he was talking about Danys dragons and maybe she can do the impossible. So they CAN do good writing this season.