Illidan bullying and trashtalking Velen

[Mgann-Morzz]

Illidan is a hypocritical selfish douchebag who thinks he's hot shit and desperately WANTS to be seen as this super awesome hero admired by everyone, basically the way he sees HIMSELF. He does generally try to do "good" but he does it for the wrong reasons (like to Illidan this is as much about his ego and having everyone see him as the great hero as it is about beating the Legion because they are evil) and in destructive reckless ways. He's pretty much always been like this expect when TBC randomly made him seem just insane and they had to have a book and questlines in Legion to retcon all that and explain that no he was just doing his usual thing.

Pretty much the only person Illidan is willing to be genuinely selfless about is Tyrande.

[TheFirstOnes]

Illidan: You failed your people, by not talking KJ/Archimonde out of this, while also running like a bitch.

Velen: B..but I tried.

Players: You tried? The only thing you ever tried, was getting carried by us, so you could get your ATOC Achieve.

Velen:

Sargeras: C...can I be relevant now?

Blizzard: Yes!

Sargeras: YAY! *Instantly comes to Azeroth, only to easily destroy Northrend with 1% Power*

Blizzard: TOO OP! TOO OP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK EM UP!

Sargeras:

N'zoth:

[Kithelle]

Why won't faith work? It worked for Tirion on Arthas. And the key aspect of the light is that you have to believe for it to work.

Did faith save his life in the Broken Shore?

[Bathory]

No he shouldn't, Velen deserves to be called out for his actions/inaction. And even if Illidan lost against Arthas, at least he faced down the threat to the world, rather than running away. That's his entire point of discussion. Actions versus Faith. How long do you sit idle because "the prophecy told me so" before you realize everything is burning.

[Stormspellz]

Illidan is the new Green Jesus (literally in the in-game lore now), do not question Green Jesus!

purple jesus will save us.

[cparle87]

and now we discover that the army of the light has been around for a while, is already -on- argus and now you have to wonder. Was the grand destiny of the draenei simply to run? have they lived and died just to keep kil'jaden's attention away from argus and a good chunk of the legion wasted in the hunt?

Wow, that's an angle I'd never considered before. Kil'jaeden majorly flipped out when Velen didn't accept Sargeras' gift, and as the Legion #2 he dedicated a huge amount of resources to hunting the draenei across the universe. Even Archimonde, who was more the action over plotting kind of guy, was left scratching his head at what Kil'jaeden was doing. Could it be the Light's grand plan for the draenei was to simply use them as the goose in a wild goose chase to distract the Legion while the Army of the Light did their thing?

[Combatbutler]

and now we discover that the army of the light has been around for a while, is already -on- argus and now you have to wonder. Was the grand destiny of the draenei simply to run? have they lived and died just to keep kil'jaden's attention away from argus and a good chunk of the legion wasted in the hunt?

Considering the amount of demons used to hunt Velen was minimal I'd disagree with that assessment. it was mentioned several times as just a small force looking for them.

[Hitei]

No he shouldn't, Velen deserves to be called out for his actions/inaction. And even if Illidan lost against Arthas, at least he faced down the threat to the world, rather than running away. That's his entire point of discussion. Actions versus Faith. How long do you sit idle because "the prophecy told me so" before you realize everything is burning.

Please. You realize that the only reason he """faced down the threat""" of Arthas is because he tried running away to Outland, abandoning Azeroth, and KJ just showed up there anyway. Illidan is a coward. At least Velen had a reason to run (keeping the Draenei alive).

All Illidan's "action" led to is him being killed, imprisoned, and almost turned into the Avatar of Sargeras. And let's not forget that he spent most of his time in Outland just idling, to the point where he let the Burning Legion attack Azeroth through the Dark Portal and that the Alliance and Horde had to fight through and actually deal with the Legion's presence on Illidan's own world.

[TheFirstOnes]

Please. You realize that the only reason he """faced down the threat""" of Arthas is because he tried running away to Outland, abandoning Azeroth, and KJ just showed up there anyway. Illidan is a coward. At least Velen had a reason to run (keeping the Draenei alive).

All Illidan's "action" led to is him being killed, imprisoned, and almost turned into the Avatar of Sargeras. And let's not forget that he spent most of his time in Outland just idling, to the point where he let the Burning Legion attack Azeroth through the Dark Portal and that the Alliance and Horde had to fight through and actually deal with the Legion's presence on Illidan's own world.

The Illidan novel has retconned the "Coward" part. Seems like he was ALMOST ready to invade Argus, until we came along, and ruined it.

[Evaddon]

He's not wrong in the slightest, Velen abandoned his people.

He left them to fight alone taking many of their forces away stripping them of the chance to actually fight back. We see Draenei still fighting, still resisting as much as they can on Argus...if Velen would've stayed, maybe they would've had more of a chance to fight back to block the enemy off...to save countless lives. Hell Velen could've stopped this along time ago by sticking a knife in the back of Archimonde and Kil'jaeden but he guided by the "light" ran with his tail tucked between his legs and then cried about it like he didn't have choices and opportunity and far sight. He knew what Sargeras offered he knew his brothers would jump at the chance for glory and power, but he did nothing to stop it.

[Deleted]

Being a jerk, yes.
But a jerk with a point.

Faith won't stop the Legion.
Faith in someone else doing the fighting is still someone doing the fighting.
And that is what is needed, action.

Faith is what kept us from fighting against the Legion, if we had no faith, Azeroth would have been conquered by demons a long time ago. Faith is what made Velen and his people survive, fleeing might not look good, but it saved many lives, and generally preservation is better than making a stance when you are facing a full blown genocide.

What has Illidan achieved actually? He's probably the most failed WoW lore character out there, never got anything right.

[Hitei]

The Illidan novel has retconned the "Coward" part. Seems like he was ALMOST ready to invade Argus, until we came along, and ruined it.

Him deciding to invade argus later doesn't change the fact that he ran away to Outland in the first place because he was a coward.

[Deleted]

He's not wrong in the slightest, Velen abandoned his people.

He left them to fight alone taking many of their forces away stripping them of the chance to actually fight back. We see Draenei still fighting, still resisting as much as they can on Argus...if Velen would've stayed, maybe they would've had more of a chance to fight back to block the enemy off...to save countless lives. Hell Velen could've stopped this along time ago by sticking a knife in the back of Archimonde and Kil'jaeden but he guided by the "light" ran with his tail tucked between his legs and then cried about it like he didn't have choices and opportunity and far sight. He knew what Sargeras offered he knew his brothers would jump at the chance for glory and power, but he did nothing to stop it.

Facing a potential total genocide for anyone that doesn't want to convert, or to run away and save as many innocent lives as you can.

Hard decisions, I'd go with the latter, every single time.

[TheFirstOnes]

Him deciding to invade argus later doesn't change the fact that he ran away to Ohttp://www.mmo-champion.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=47090483utland in the first place because he was a coward.

He never ran to Outland. He took Outland over, and then Kil'jaeden followed. Sure, he did run from Kil'jaeden during the aftermath of the Frozen Throne. However, during those times, he was also planning for an invasion. Secretly blowing up places like Nathreza, and so forth in the process.

So, to be fair now, he wasn't a coward even when hiding. He was just waiting for the right moment to strike at Kil'jaeden.

[Deleted]

The Illidan novel has retconned the "Coward" part. Seems like he was ALMOST ready to invade Argus, until we came along, and ruined it.

He's still a bigger coward than Velen, because his cowardice was only for his personal gains, whilst Velen's were for preservation of his pure species (and not all becoming fel infused).

[Hitei]

He never ran to Outland. He took Outland over, and then Kil'jaeden followed. Sure, he did run from Kil'jaeden during the aftermath of the Frozen Throne. However, during those times, he was also planning for an invasion. Secretly blowing up places like Nathreza, and so forth in the process.

So, to be fair now, he wasn't a coward even when hiding. He was just waiting for the right moment to strike at Kil'jaeden.

"He never ran to Outland."
"Sure, he ran from Kil'jaeden to Outland."

Yes, exactly. He ran. The invasion plan came after, when he went to do Kil'jaeden's bidding like a scared little puppy and got his teeth kicked in by Arthas.

He is a coward. He turned to fight when he had no options to run away left. And now he's whining about Velen running away and then turning to fight, except that Velen had people to protect.

[TheFirstOnes]

He's still a bigger coward than Velen, because his cowardice was only for his personal gains, whilst Velen's were for preservation of his pure species (and not all becoming fel infused).

Except:

Velen never blew up Any Legion Worlds.

Nor did he plan with invading Argus.

Nor did he steal any powerful Legion relics.

Less of a coward? No.

[nothingsjim]

Please. You realize that the only reason he """faced down the threat""" of Arthas is because he tried running away to Outland, abandoning Azeroth, and KJ just showed up there anyway. Illidan is a coward. At least Velen had a reason to run (keeping the Draenei alive).

All Illidan's "action" led to is him being killed, imprisoned, and almost turned into the Avatar of Sargeras. And let's not forget that he spent most of his time in Outland just idling, to the point where he let the Burning Legion attack Azeroth through the Dark Portal and that the Alliance and Horde had to fight through and actually deal with the Legion's presence on Illidan's own world.

May be, just may be, that is the point when Illidan realize running doesn't work?

Illidan fled to Outland once, after trying and failing to destroy Frozen Throne with Eye of Sargeras. After being confronted by KJ he leaps back into action, yes, he got owned by Arthas, but that's not the point.

Velen, on the other hand, keeps running for untold amount of time (Probably longer than Illidan's 10k+ years lifetime), dooming countless worlds to Legion that pursued them. Hell, we have no idea how many worlds Draenei escaped from before they become trapped in Draenor, and judging from the lack of other species on Exodar, the native of those planets probably didn't survive. It took the death(Confusing Twisting Nether Issue I know) of his own son to finally make him to take action against Legion instead of just flee again.

Yes, Illidan is a major ass, and his action led to dire consequences, but so is Velen's inaction. The only difference is, Illidan pays the price of his action himself, while Velen has other people/planet pay for his.

[TheFirstOnes]

"He never ran to Outland."
"Sure, he ran from Kil'jaeden to Outland."

Yes, exactly. He ran. The invasion plan came after, when he went to do Kil'jaeden's bidding like a scared little puppy and got his teeth kicked in by Arthas.

He is a coward. He turned to fight when he had no options to run away left. And now he's whining about Velen running away and then turning to fight, except that Velen had people to protect.

No. He was only serving Kil'jaeden, so he'd know what the fuck the Legion was doing. He did a similar thing with Sargeras during the WoTA, 10k years ago.

He only "acted" scared so Kil'jaeden wouldn't notice Illidan's "Intervention".

[Hitei]

May be, just may be, that is the point when Illidan realize running doesn't work?

Illidan fled to Outland once, after trying and failing to destroy Frozen Throne with Eye of Sargeras. After being confronted by KJ he leaps back into action, yes, he got owned by Arthas, but that's not the point.

Velen, on the other hand, keeps running for untold amount of time (Probably longer than Illidan's 10k+ years lifetime), dooming countless worlds to Legion that pursued them. Hell, we have no idea how many worlds Draenei escaped from before they become trapped in Draenor, and judging from the lack of other species on Exodar, the native of those planets probably didn't survive. It took the death(Confusing Twisting Nether Issue I know) of his own son to finally make him to take action against Legion instead of just flee again.

Yes, Illidan is a major ass, and his action led to dire consequences, but so is Velen's inaction. The only difference is, Illidan pays the price of his action himself, while Velen has other people/planet pay for his.

No, the difference is that Velen ran because he had a population to protect from being slaughtered or corrupted by the burning Legion. And Illidan ran because he was afraid of KJ being angry with him. Velen didn't doom anything, the Legion was already on a warpath.

The Draenei turned to fight when they reached Azeroth, not when Velen's son died.