Mt. Rushmore

[Masoner]

And unlike confederates, these guys didn't try to destroy the U.S.

You mean Democrats.

[bladeXcrasher]

Even then, you're comparing people who literally fought to keep the institution of slavery in tact and those were actually proposed legislation to remove it.

The founding fathers proposed legislation to remove it? Pretty sure they allowed it to continue protected until 1821 just so they could create and pass the constitution, there is a reason it's co sidered the great compromise.

[Korlok]

Mount Rushmore Memorial should be dismantled because it defaces a Lakota holy site.

It's like desecrating a church.

As a Lakota blooded individual myself, this is the only reason I could agree with taking it down.

[Ripster42]

http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/w...-pyramids-html

After reading it he's basing it literally on just the fact that people were being fed meat. So ya, easy to disregard bullshit.

"REDDING'S faunal evidence dealt a serious blow to the Hollywood version of pyramid building, with Charlton Heston as Moses intoning, "Pharaoh, let my people go!" There were slaves in Egypt, says Lehner, but the discovery that pyramid workers were fed like royalty buttresses other evidence that they were not slaves at all, at least in the modern sense of the word."

By the modern sense of the word he just means they were fed well. That's his reasoning. They're fed well, so they're not slaves.

"People were not atomized, separate, individuals with the political and economic freedom that we take for granted. Obligatory labor ranges from slavery all the way to, say, the Amish, where you have elders and a strong sense of community obligations, and a barn raising is a religious event and a feasting event."

They're not slaves, they're just obligated laborers...

So ya, whether you want to call them slaves or "obligated laborers" I don't think the terminology matters.


In response to his, "They're fed well so they're not slaves," and, "They're obligated laborers, not slaves," I'll just mention that 3 religions that survive to this day are rooted in a book that said they were slaves. Which is more evidence than that guy is going on, with a whole lot less mealy mouthed half words.

[pvrwizard]

The difference being they weren't Confederate traitors to the Union and slave owners.

Piece of trash Confederate traitors don't deserve praise. Only remembrance. That's why we have libraries, not statues.

The fact that history class has seemingly forgotten to teach an entire generation that our country fundamentally changed legally and materialistically post-civil war is the real crime here.

Edit: And frankly, I couldn't give a shit what a KKK member does with his money. I'd prefer he not exist and stop shitting on people outside his safe space, but acting like we care what Tony was doing out in the middle of North Dakota all winter long? As long as it wasn't skinning colored people, I couldn't give less of a shit.

don't even know where the damned monument is....

[Zabatakis]

Im pretty sure we all know this has nothing to do with the traitorious part and everything to do with slavery.

I wouldn't say nothing to do with traitorious part, but the main part is slavery. Like the part where these guys wanted slaves so bad they turned traitor on their country and were more than willing to kill countrymen so they could have them. This during a time when people were realising slaves are humans too, so you can't even say they are a product of their time like the founding fathers.

You don't hold it against someone for doing things normal of the time. You do if times are changing and they are willing to turn traitor and kill to resist said progress. Still, it really comes down to loosers don't get trophies. Had they won there would surely be lots of monuments to them with no one looking to tear them down. But they didn't, they lost and lost decisively.

[Deleted]

I honestly just need to get the hell outta the U.S. I'm so sick of feeling like I should feel guilty for being white. I'm sick of hearing about slavery and racism in the states. I'm sick of people blaming the past for their current problems. And I'm sick of people wanting handouts for something that didn't happen to them.

Ugh, only 6 more years... then we can leave.

Who "white-shamed" you? Let me guess...no one.

This does seem to be a modern trend with the right...manufacture non-existent grievances and imaginary repression.

Btw I dunno where your going but if you like the whole white pride thing then you should stay in the US. Most people outside the US aren't that backward in their philosophy.

[Lochton]

It's almost like we're talking about how OUR country deals with the problem, and not how slavery has existed for thousands of years. This has nothing to do with your bullshit distraction. This is our country dealing with monuments put up by racists (daughters of the confederacy in the 1910s) to remind black people they're not equal. Get out of here with your false equivalency horse crap.

If you were actually sorry about atrocities committed in the past you'd have the statues in museums, not proudly displayed in public parks honoring the people who committed and fought to continue those atrocities. Sounds like you're an apologist.

Yes, it should be in a museum but no, you cannot shelter yourself from your past. Tearing down the statues of what is considered to some, the big meanies and others, the heroes or people of inspiration or heck, even warning about not forgetting where you came from.

If a statue sets your mind that you aren't equal, then I apologise, but that is also about oneself.

At this rate, almost all your statues has some sort of bad omen. Fuck, are we going to pull down some of the old buildings because they were used by people owning slaves?

To be honest, you do you, and I'll have a seat over here while people are going at it with older buildings and more. Sorry, but obviously we cannot agree that in a way, you are trying to shelter the masses from your history while you as well, feel it is for the better to not have it at all.

[Deleted]

Yes, it should be in a museum but no, you cannot shelter yourself from your past. Tearing down the statues of what is considered to some, the big meanies and others, the heroes or people of inspiration or heck, even warning about not forgetting where you came from.

If a statue sets your mind that you aren't equal, then I apologise, but that is also about oneself.

At this rate, almost all your statues has some sort of bad omen. Fuck, are we going to pull down some of the old buildings because they were used by people owning slaves?

To be honest, you do you, and I'll have a seat over here while people are going at it with older buildings and more. Sorry, but obviously we cannot agree that in a way, you are trying to shelter the masses from your history while you as well, feel it is for the better to not have it at all.

Those statues are after-the-fact propaganda, they aren't history, they are a massive distortion of history by bigots.

The historical value of a statue created fifty years after the event by the for political purposes is virtually zero.

[araine]

So why is there not call to take it down? Started by a KKK member and showing two slave owners and another maybe racist guy?

Obviously you dont understand the difference between someone that fought AGAINST the USA in those confederate bullshit statues it is like we should have statues of Hitler to celebrate the heritage of nazis really it is the same shit

[Ripster42]

Those statues are after-the-fact propaganda, they aren't history, they are a massive distortion of history by bigots.

The historical value of a statue created fifty years after the event by the for political purposes is virtually zero.

No no, you have to remember that in the early 20th century there were a lot of people acting shitty and enacting jim crow laws and erecting statues to honor people who fought for slavery.

That shit deserves to be remembered and condemned not whitewashed, honored, and excused.

[mickybrighteyes]

Because only Winners should get trophies.

then explain the vietnam memorial <.<

[Deleted]

Obviously you dont understand the difference between someone that fought AGAINST the USA in those confederate bullshit statues it is like we should have statues of Hitler to celebrate the heritage of nazis really it is the same shit

It is incomprehensible to me that "white nationalists" are celebrating a man who came closer to destroying to the nation than King George, Adolf Hitler and Osama Bin Laden. Seems like they just like the racism part and don't care much about the patrotic bit.

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No no, you have to remember that in the early 20th century there were a lot of people acting shitty and enacting jim crow laws and erecting statues to honor people who fought for slavery.

That shit deserves to be remembered and condemned not whitewashed, honored, and excused.

Then it should be placed in its proper context. Put up statues representing abolitionists and slaves next to them.

The problem with that is that bigots would vandalize the modern statues. So removal is the only option.

If you just let the statues stand as they are then they are a glorification of slavery.

[Zyky]

<<snip>>

Infracted - Minor Spam

@Gray_Matter I'm not really sure why this was infracted. Unless you're taking a political stance when you're supposed to be monitoring the forums. His image was 100% on topic and not spam in any regard.

[Ripster42]

It is incomprehensible to me that "white nationalists" are celebrating a man who came closer to destroying to the nation than King George, Adolf Hitler and Osama Bin Laden. Seems like they just like the racism part and don't care much about the patrotic bit.

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Then it should be placed in its proper context. Put up statues representing abolitionists and slaves next to them.

The problem with that is that bigots would vandalize the modern statues. So removal is the only option.

If you just let the statues stand as they are then they are a glorification of slavery.

Not okay with that. Take the statues down. I think you missed the point of my post, it was reinforcing your point.

You can remember history if you're taught it in a history book. We shouldn't whitewash that history or we get idiots who think the civil war was fought over anything but slavery. And those monuments help whitewash that history.

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@Gray_Matter I'm not really sure why this was infracted. Unless you're taking a political stance when you're supposed to be monitoring the forums. His image was 100% on topic and not spam in any regard.

From the rules:

Brief guidelines to follow: (Please read the extensive rules found here for more in-depth information)
Do not post spam, meme images or nonsense text.

Also, take up your issues with mods in PMs not the forums.

[Stormspellz]

I like how this is only a problem for white people. For example, you don't see anyone calling for the Egyptian pyramids to be torn down, even though the pharaohs who built them were the most prolific slave owners in human history.

Egypt isn't holding marches about the good old days of Pharaohs chanting the equivalent of "blood and soil" or "you will not replace us"

[Raptor With a Saber]

Because the majority of the U.S still isnt as fucking stupid as the nazis and antifa fools

[Zyky]

Not okay with that. Take the statues down. I think you missed the point of my post, it was reinforcing your point.

You can remember history if you're taught it in a history book. We shouldn't whitewash that history or we get idiots who think the civil war was fought over anything but slavery. And those monuments help whitewash that history.

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From the rules:

Brief guidelines to follow: (Please read the extensive rules found here for more in-depth information)
Do not post spam, meme images or nonsense text.

Also, take up your issues with mods in PMs not the forums.

When only 1 side of an issue is being addressed and singled out by mods you're damn right I'm gonna call them out on their bullshit. It happens way too much with the mods on this site playing god in a children's playground, just banning people and removing comments because it doesn't mesh with their political opinion.

[lockedout]

From the rules:

Brief guidelines to follow: (Please read the extensive rules found here for more in-depth information)
Do not post spam, meme images or nonsense text.

Also, take up your issues with mods in PMs not the forums.

Mods post meme images.

[Martymark]

just banning people and removing comments because it doesn't mesh with their political opinion.

I assumed this was the reason, but didn't want to pursue it to give them an excuse to account ban me for some esoteric rule and then stonewall a la the Neogaff forums.