Blue responded about BM

[Sim]

Yeah I mean they can cast... star solar wrath, new moon, half moon, full moon, and lunar strike on the move.

Oh wait. There's no spec even close to BM mobility, Fire mages are probably closest without legendary bracers.

http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/202354-stellar-drift

Thanks for playing.

[Wilfire]

http://ptr.wowdb.com/spells/202354-stellar-drift

Thanks for playing.

Mobility is useless if it doesn't allow you to do dps on par with other classes. As things are, if you want to be AoE god reroll boomkin. If you want to be ST god, reroll mage. If you want to be melee god, reroll rogue. There is zero reason to play hunter right now as they are utter dogshit at everything they do.

Make survival ranged again and give MM infinite mobility back. Let MM be god at ST, BM god at cleave and surv god at spread multidotting. End this madness.

[Biomega]

There is zero reason to play hunter right now as they are utter dogshit at everything they do.

I think the hyperbole is uncalled for. Hunters aren't zomgamazing, but far from "utter dogshit" considering how many classes are below them in damage.

And honestly, most of the current state of affairs has to do with mechanics in Tomb of Soakgeras rather than the actual damage output. The only outlier are Boomkins, really, who seem a little too good at doing EVERYTHING, and that on a class already defined by being able to fill every role imaginable.

You need three things for Tomb, basically: burst damage, mobility, and an immunity for soaking. Mages happen to be best caster for that, and Rogue the best melee. There is no contest. But that's not because of their damage, it's because of Blink, Iceblock, Cloak, Shadowstep, etc. Hunters have a little of it, and that's why they're above par - not utter dogshit, but also not top tier.
(I guess there's also a few multidot fights which is why Affliction Warlocks also do so well overall, but that has never really been a hunter specialty and I think no one would expect it to be.)

And hey, hunters are great in M+, too! For what that's worth.

[Stormmantis]

All spec of all classes should be viable so that there is genuine choice, rather than those stubborn few who persist at a spec because they like it but wouldn't be anyones choice for a raid. When certain specs are so much better than another it represents a failure of the devs. Those arguments that bm should be lowest dps due to its mobility/easy of play are not valid either not when the discrepancies are so pronounced.
Whats wrong with playing a spec you like and still feel like you can pull your own weight too?

[Sim]

BM are the biggest goofsters recently. They aren't going to buff it to MM levels when it's miles easier and more forgiving to play. The hunters that truly care about damage so much are just playing MM, not whining on every forum for buffs.

You're truly an idiot if your actually believe this. This is WoW: Legion were talking about. They pruned, simplified and babied every spec in the game compared to what they were before. No spec in this game can be considered truly complex or "hard" anymore.

They've cut down every spec into 3-4 Button rotations. With those abilities classified as your generator, main resource dump, minor resource dump and your ability which is proc'd which usually comes with a flashy flashy animation on your bars so you'll notice it.

You've got maybe 1-3 short to medium buffs for burst and your long CD survival cds.

If you know fights enough (ToS has been out long enough to develop muscle memory for it) then its easily enough to figure out hit and stick times, as well as the general area you need to be in to minimize movement. Saying you have incredible mobility has little impact on fights unless you've just forced someone to move across the entire room because someone screwed up. At no time is this truly an advantage when you consider those DPS which are supposedly hindered by movement preform drastically better than the spec which is supposedly benefits the most out it.

[threads]

You're truly an idiot if your actually believe this. This is WoW: Legion were talking about. They pruned, simplified and babied every spec in the game compared to what they were before. No spec in this game can be considered truly complex or "hard" anymore.

They've cut down every spec into 3-4 Button rotations. With those abilities classified as your generator, main resource dump, minor resource dump and your ability which is proc'd which usually comes with a flashy flashy animation on your bars so you'll notice it.

You've got maybe 1-3 short to medium buffs for burst and your long CD survival cds.

If you know fights enough (ToS has been out long enough to develop muscle memory for it) then its easily enough to figure out hit and stick times, as well as the general area you need to be in to minimize movement. Saying you have incredible mobility has little impact on fights unless you've just forced someone to move across the entire room because someone screwed up. At no time is this truly an advantage when you consider those DPS which are supposedly hindered by movement preform drastically better than the spec which is supposedly benefits the most out it.

you can pretend all this is true but the only reason people play the shitter specs are because they can't or aren't willing to play the current top one.

[Sim]

you can pretend all this is true but the only reason people play the shitter specs are because they can't or aren't willing to play the current top one.

So why be afraid of BM Hunter being the top Hunter spec to play? If its only about playing the "current top spec" then it shouldn't matter what it is. FOTM chasers.

[Moshots]

Mobility is useless if it doesn't allow you to do dps on par with other classes. As things are, if you want to be AoE god reroll boomkin. If you want to be ST god, reroll mage. If you want to be melee god, reroll rogue. There is zero reason to play hunter right now as they are utter dogshit at everything they do.

Make survival ranged again and give MM infinite mobility back. Let MM be god at ST, BM god at cleave and surv god at spread multidotting. End this madness.

0 reason to play bm

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2038 156 logs on avatar 5th overall number
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2051 16 on KJ 5th overall number (although top 5 guilds ran MM hunters blah blah blah)

0 reason to play BM boys.

the only reason people complain about BM is it doesn't look good in LFR where everyone stands in everything and afks half the fights maybe.... in real raiding BM is fine and in a very good place once the buffs come in. No one is sitting their BM hunters in a real mythic raid guild If anything most guilds are trying to run 3 Hunters right now on their rosters right now.

[Mavick]

you can pretend all this is true but the only reason people play the shitter specs are because they can't or aren't willing to play the current top one.

I don't play MM because I hate specs that tie all their single target damage into one ability (Aimed Shot), plus, I just hate casting in general. If you think I don't play it because I think it's "too hard", then you are being completely shallow and ill-informed.

[c313]

Just a matter of time before they force MM in the dumps and putt their precious new Survival, you know the spec only 3% of Hunters actually play, at the top.

[Trapstarz]

Just a matter of time before they force MM in the dumps and putt their precious new Survival, you know the spec only 3% of Hunters actually play, at the top.

They can't, just seeing you beeing whiny bitches about the difference between BM and MM, how would they even put SV in front of those 2 specs ?
If SV is on top your tears will be delicious and if it doesn't good hunters will play MM and melee wannabes but scared of beeing melee will play BM.

PS : I play them all

[Moshots]

They can't, just seeing you beeing whiny bitches about the difference between BM and MM, how would they even put SV in front of those 2 specs ?
If SV is on top your tears will be delicious and if it doesn't good hunters will play MM and melee wannabes but scared of beeing melee will play BM.

PS : I play them all

Survival hunters don't compete for raid spots vs MM/BM... you only bring so many melee. No one is gonna go melee and take a spot of a rogue/warrior/ect unless it was so OP that it was borderline broken.

[threads]

I don't play MM because I hate specs that tie all their single target damage into one ability (Aimed Shot), plus, I just hate casting in general. If you think I don't play it because I think it's "too hard", then you are being completely shallow and ill-informed.

just proved my point lol.

[Emerald Archer]

BM is a faceroll easy spec, easily the most simple in game. And it has unlimitted mobility.

It is far far behind MMs damage, and yet is still viable in top end mythic raiding. Because of said mobility.

I'm not sure why people want all specs balanced purely around damage output, that isn't how choosing specs for raids works. If a spec is desired in mythic raiding, imo it is balanced.

BM DOES need an aoe damage boost, but its ST is 100% fine.

If a spec is very viable in mega top end raiding, the spec is fine. If you gave BM the same damage as MM, it would be the most broken op spec in the game. BM HAS to do less damage than MM for it to be balanced. The ST difference is in a good spot, the aoe just needs a boost.

[Aryia]

Now, let me break this down. What lore ACTUALLY said was this:

BM is currently at the bottom. When the crucible unlocks, BM will be EVEN FURTHER behind other classes because our dps doesn't benefit well from weapon ilvl. The 4% buff is going to be hotfixed in later in order to keep BM exactly where it is now: still at the bottom.

And that's normal.

Now it's perfect.

[Offensive]

BM is a faceroll easy spec, easily the most simple in game. And it has unlimitted mobility.

It is far far behind MMs damage, and yet is still viable in top end mythic raiding. Because of said mobility.

I'm not sure why people want all specs balanced purely around damage output, that isn't how choosing specs for raids works. If a spec is desired in mythic raiding, imo it is balanced.

BM DOES need an aoe damage boost, but its ST is 100% fine.

If a spec is very viable in mega top end raiding, the spec is fine. If you gave BM the same damage as MM, it would be the most broken op spec in the game. BM HAS to do less damage than MM for it to be balanced. The ST difference is in a good spot, the aoe just needs a boost.

That ^^^^^^^

[Kantoro]

Petition to rename this thread "whiny hyperbole BM thread"

I play BM, I will always play BM, I like the current incarnation as it is right this minute. I do fine on the meters.

[Biomega]

Petition to rename this thread "whiny hyperbole BM thread"

I play BM, I will always play BM, I like the current incarnation as it is right this minute. I do fine on the meters.

While I agree that hyperbole isn't quite warranted, "I do fine, therefore nothing is wrong" has never really been a very effective argument. It may come as a shock, but other people may have experiences different than your own.

BM plays nicely and all, and I agree that it should be lower than less mobile classes - but there is a whole lot of wriggle room in that respect. It seems that some people just seem to equate "BM should do better" with "I want BM to be the highest damage hunter spec and/or class in the entire game". Which is just not what reasonable people are saying.

[Svisalith]

Btw, a 4% buff on top of 1300k DPS is +52k dps

15 ilvls is worth around 50k for a lot of classes that do scale well

so you're getting +52k dps (more than 15ilvl worth) AND the +15 weapon ilvls- it'll be a bit of a net buff in the end.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2051 16 on KJ 5th overall number (although top 5 guilds ran MM hunters blah blah blah)

Very good point here, 16 BM parses and 2 rets for example. Avatar shows a similar story with a much larger sample size, 164 >BM< hunters but most entire classes have way less than that - 51 DPS DH's, 30 paladins, 25 shamen, 12 monks.

BM could use a bit of love on AOE but a handful of other classes could too

[Kantoro]

While I agree that hyperbole isn't quite warranted, "I do fine, therefore nothing is wrong" has never really been a very effective argument. It may come as a shock, but other people may have experiences different than your own.

While I appreciate the sedate and thoughtful response, I respectfully disagree. My opinion carries the most weight, because frankly, I do not play a class to compete with others, I play to have fun. Fun is being had, by me, the only one that matters. Seriously look at the complaints on this thread, they are all "Everyone else is getting things, I want things" "I am a special snowflake and deserve to do the most dps, just becuz"