[7.0 Retribution Paladin] Guide and Discussion

[Lumineus]

20% nerf to Bow trait nerfed from 5 to 4%, min. 20% of our total dmg at least 4% of this are gone -> 1% dmg nerf

Psst. It's the Divine Storm trait that was nerfed.

Just FYI.

[ThePants999]

4.5% loss from the chain "fix" we do 40-50% of our dmg during wings -> -2.5% total loss

Not far off, you've overestimated a bit. Fully-stacked Crusade with Chain was previously a set of multiplicative 45%, 45% and 10% buffs - i.e. we did 1.45 * 1.45 * 1.1 = 2.31275 times normal damage. With the 10% being additive, it's now 1.45 * 1.45 + 0.1 = 2.2025 times normal damage. For simplicity, let's pretend Crusade is 30 seconds but fully-stacked from the start (my own modelling was more accurate than that, but I want to be brief), and let's call the amount of damage we normally do in 30 seconds "1". That means that in every complete 2-minute period, we did 2.31275+1+1+1 damage before, and 2.2025+1+1+1 damage afterwards. Divide the latter by the former and you get 97.925, i.e. we've lost 2.075% damage from Chain nerf alone.

20% nerf of the wings trait means 36 seconds of wings at max -> 10% loss of wings (taken from the 15 stacks time no compensation on the building side)

Assuming 3xWotA relics, we've gone from 37.5s to 34s Crusade time. Outside of heroism, it typically takes 9-ish seconds to fully stack Crusade - if we assume it's 50% effective for the first 9 seconds and 100% thereafter, then it's basically the same as going from 33s of fully effective time to 29.5. That's a 10.6% nerf to Crusade, but for the total effect on our damage you've got to account for our non-Crusade damage too, which is actually increased because Crusade is shorter :-) Put it all together and it's about a 2.8% overall nerf to us. (Just the WotA bit, that is.)

10% nerf to Liadrins Fury (1 procc per 4 seconds 40s >36s) -> 1 hp less generated

Again, not quite sure where you're getting 40 and 36 from - Crusade is 20 seconds baseline plus 4 WotA traits on the artifact plus 3 via relics, so 37.5->34. Still 1 HoPo less, though, you're right. That's a negligible impact. I'll be generous and say it puts us up to a 5% nerf so far.

Additionally, the ability to stack pots, trinkets etc with Crusade means there's an additional hit. That's really hard to quantify, but let's say it takes us up to 5.5% total nerf from Crusade-related stuff.

20% nerf to Bow trait nerfed from 5 to 4%, min. 20% of our total dmg at least 4% of this are gone -> 1% dmg nerf

a DS nerf was in there as well as other trait changes but I think the items listed above are more than sufficient to sum up to more than the 6% buff..

There's no nerf to any BoW trait. The only traits nerfed are WotA (Crusade) and Righteous Blade (DS).

On a single target fight, then, we have about a 5.5% nerf. The 6% buff obviously outdoes that on its own, and then you've also forgotten the mastery buff - we all have a bunch of mastery, as much as we've tried to avoid it, so we'll immediately benefit from that. Net result, buff. Multi-target, the 3.3% nerf to DS damage (116% / 120%) will hurt - DS is a big portion of our damage on fights where we use it, so we'll probably be ever so slightly lower on those fights.

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So one fast question : ES is buffed 6% and then 17% more or they do it 17% only ?

ES is undoubtedly buffed 6% and 17%, but since the 6% applies to what ES is competing with as well, it's better to think of ES as having been buffed 17%. It's been buffed 17% relative to the alternatives.

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I suspect the Consecration tooltip is wrong, but it doesn't matter either way.

More likely the tooltip is wrong on live, and fixed on PTR :-)

[Neldarie]

Tooltips dont reflect gains from judgement debuff either.

[Deleted]

Again, not quite sure where you're getting 40 and 36 from

massive fuck up on my part was assuming there were 8 ranks not just 7... call be retarded ...

There's no nerf to any BoW trait. The only traits nerfed are WotA (Crusade) and Righteous Blade (DS).

are you sure that they didn´t change that one as well? if not call me retard twice

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Psst. It's the Divine Storm trait that was nerfed.

Just FYI.

stop invading my save space! I feel like BoW has been nerfed so it is real!

[Deleted]

There's some info on the discord. So... mastery is on par with crit and vers. We can go mainly for ilvl.

Simcraft is fixed so we can sim safely (PTR).

Leggys seem to be mainly on par as well. So umm... well i guess thing are simpler now. Belt is still preferable if you have decent t19 pieces.

Also GH is viable now. Maybe good for fights like Harjatan.

[Reith]

There's some info on the discord. So... mastery is on par with crit and vers. We can go mainly for ilvl.

Simcraft is fixed so we can sim safely (PTR).

Leggys seem to be mainly on par as well. So umm... well i guess thing are simpler now. Belt is still preferable if you have decent t19 pieces.

Also GH is viable now. Maybe good for fights like Harjatan.

Hurray, I can use my high mastery 915 ring then. What if you only have 890 T19? >_> Because even 890 is good for me at the moment, which it probably shouldn't be.

[Krothare]

Some on the discord are thinking the Mastery change might make Cloak/Ring the Legendary Combo(tm) again, wonder if there's any truth to that. Would be nice because I never actually got that damned belt.

[Reith]

Some on the discord are thinking the Mastery change might make Cloak/Ring the Legendary Combo(tm) again, wonder if there's any truth to that. Would be nice because I never actually got that damned belt.

I actually hope it's not, because I don't have that damn ring yet.

[Ryuji]

Saw this on the wow subreddit and it made me chuckle:



Caption is "How many talents currently have real impact on your class?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...ea&sh=2bb4d0cb

[Deleted]

Above, GJudgement will now also be viable, ES may be viable and what's wrong with cavalier?

Hurray, I can use my high mastery 915 ring then. What if you only have 890 T19? >_> Because even 890 is good for me at the moment, which it probably shouldn't be.

Hate to be that guy... but you're gonna have to sim it. Raidbots makes it alot easier now though.

It's what i'm gonna do on patch day myself.

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Some on the discord are thinking the Mastery change might make Cloak/Ring the Legendary Combo(tm) again, wonder if there's any truth to that. Would be nice because I never actually got that damned belt.

I'm expecting that to be the case aswell, just not sure how much the t19 bonus will be able to off-set.

Having crusade duration nerfed devalued the leggys that empower crusade. But, our damage outside crusade increased. This benefits leggys that aren't on only during crusade. So, i wouldn't be surprised. Tbh though, i have been using Highlord since i got it purely cause it makes the spec that much more fun to play and because it's much better on cleave situations.

[Ryuji]

Above, GJudgement will now also be viable, ES may be viable and what's wrong with cavalier?

Nah this is before 7.3 stuff I think. and yeah I agree with Cavalier(I prefer it tbh) but it just made me smile a bit because currently it's pretty accurate. :P

[Deleted]

Saw this on the wow subreddit and it made me chuckle:



Caption is "How many talents currently have real impact on your class?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...ea&sh=2bb4d0cb

Class fantasy

[Morally Grey Storm]

Saw this on the wow subreddit and it made me chuckle:



Caption is "How many talents currently have real impact on your class?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...ea&sh=2bb4d0cb

We need another one. For pvp talents.
Bzzd did an awesome job making seraphim blessing viable, blessing of sanctuary unviable, and Hammer of Why Did You Pick This Shit - reliably awful.

[Ryuji]

We need another one. For pvp talents.
Bzzd did an awesome job making seraphim blessing viable, blessing of sanctuary unviable, and Hammer of Why Did You Pick This Shit - reliably awful.

I don't PvP at all really besides messing around with towers and FFA objectives/brawls, but a quick glance at the Ret PvP talents for me looks like I'd pick these:



Accurate? Seems just as lacking if so. :|

[Morally Grey Storm]

I don't PvP at all really besides messing around with towers and FFA objectives/brawls, but a quick glance at the Ret PvP talents for me looks like I'd pick these:



Accurate? Seems just as lacking if so. :|

Well, we kind of have a choice on three tiers.
Yay.

P.s. We Want Rets to Counter Mages Aura is...MEDIOCRE.

[Ryuji]

Well, we kind of have a choice on three tiers.
Yay.

P.s. We Want Rets to Counter Mages Aura is...MEDIOCRE.

Noted lol. The PvP talents do seem pretty meh though. I have messed around with all of 'em but I mostly picked passives cause I couldn't be bothered to spec into abilities sans medallion. Also picked Lawbringer most times, though I did enjoy when it made judgement last for a long time on a target. RIP that though.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Noted lol. The PvP talents do seem pretty meh though. I have messed around with all of 'em but I mostly picked passives cause I couldn't be bothered to spec into abilities sans medallion. Also picked Lawbringer most times, though I did enjoy when it made judgement last for a long time on a target. RIP that though.

Just look at Pain Dispenser or War Banner.
Or feth, at any arms PvP talent.

[Ryuji]

Just look at Pain Dispenser or War Banner.
Or feth, at any arms PvP talent.

Honestly the more I look at the Warrior class in general currently, the more it seems a bit better off overall. I'm sure warrior mains or warriors that are up to date with current BiS stuff and doing the higher end content if not the highest have pointed out flaws the specs have compared to others, but any time I ever saw a Fury or Arms Warrior that knew what they were doing, they'd just wreck stuff. Prot Warriors also become seemingly unkillable. The thing that bothers me about Warriors is the lack of self healing that Paladins can dish out though which is the type of class I usually like to play in most games with classes or specializations.

[billyjean]

u rets should do a /cancelaura retribution macro or use DP over crusader then maybe blizz will realize how pathetic rets are

[Ryuji]

u rets should do a /cancelaura retribution macro or use DP over crusader then maybe blizz will realize how pathetic rets are

Unless you have Soul of the Highlord, then you have both!

...We don't talk about Holy Wrath.