Testing 7.3 Frost dk

[Deleted]

The APL is in the discord #tc-sim channel

Well didn't change that much. Left is single target, right 3 target cleave.



And it's the same for 6 target cleave. BOS is far ahead whenever there are adds involved. And in TOS, most fights involve adds.

[Piz813]

Well didn't change that much. Left is single target, right 3 target cleave.



And it's the same for 6 target cleave. BOS is far ahead whenever there are adds involved. And in TOS, most fights involve adds.

So all my day dreams of going MG again crushed by math?

[Deleted]

Whats the diffenrence in BoS + GS and BoS + RA ? Your names are a bit confusing

Might as well depend on gear, but no offense, Melekus is a great theorycrafter, so i trust his sims a bit more

I´d be happy if BoS would still be better. OB is still a shitty talent and HRW will probably lead to massive ressource overcapping.

[Deleted]

So all my day dreams of going MG again crushed by math?

For 10 targets, it's

BOS 5.29m
rest at best 3.8m

So BOS is 40% ahead on 10 targets AOE. f course for AOE you should try Frost Scythe and so on. But if you wanna have a build for single target and AOE - pick BOS.

But the FSc builds i tried performed worse than classic BOS build. I dont know though how well FSc is optimized.

- - - Updated - - -

Whats the diffenrence in BoS + GS and BoS + RA ? Your names are a bit confusing

Might as well depend on gear, but no offense, Melekus is a great theorycrafter, so i trust his sims a bit more

I´d be happy if BoS would still be better. OB is still a shitty talent and HRW will probably lead to massive ressource overcapping.

Well GS is Gathering Storm, RA = Frozen Pulse xD. (My bad) I tried several talent combinations and at some point my BOS names didn't keep up with the current setup.

Sorry. BOS+GS is 3330032, BOA+RA is 3330022. I didnt want to publish those numbers though so i didnt update the names.

Rest is correct though.

And to be fair, this is MY gear. Melek has different gear. I tend to have much mastery cause i wanna pull big cleave/AOE numbers.^He might have more haste or crit, different trinkets, gems and so on.

[Deleted]

Afaik he always sims with the T20 profile.

But yeah, as always its best to sim the own character. I´ll just wait a few days and test all talents first. The new APL isnt optimized yet and according to Melek there is still work to do (Crucible etc.)

But if BoS ends up pulling ahead, its proably not by far.

[RuneDK]

So all my day dreams of going MG again crushed by math?

Doubt it, can play MG and not feel like shit now.

[Deleted]

Doubt it, can play MG and not feel like shit now.

Well at least for single target. For cleave/aoe, BOS pulls far ahead. If you dont wanna change talents a lot, BOS seems to be ahead.

[Piz813]

Doubt it, can play MG and not feel like shit now.

Cool. I'm off tomorrow so plenty of time to test both specs in a real raid setting. Normal speed clears run all day at reset. I trust SIM and a few users that post, like Melek, sim drone, max etc but like to see how specs and talent actually play at my finger tips. Not a calculator.

[Hoeth]

Cool. I'm off tomorrow so plenty of time to test both specs in a real raid setting. Normal speed clears run all day at reset. I trust SIM and a few users that post, like Melek, sim drone, max etc but like to see how specs and talent actually play at my finger tips. Not a calculator.

Had the same thought, then they post notice of an 8 hour maintenance

[Schizoide]

For 10 targets, it's

BOS 5.29m
rest at best 3.8m

So BOS is 40% ahead on 10 targets AOE.

That doesn't make much sense, because BoS doesn't scale past 2 targets... if BoS is really the best AE talent HRW really sucks rocks.

[Deleted]

That doesn't make much sense, because BoS doesn't scale past 2 targets... if BoS is really the best AE talent HRW really sucks rocks.

It isnt about BOS damage alone. It is the free GCDs because you dont press Frost Strike. Gathering Storm can proc higher, horn of winter has 100% efficiency (without BOS i have rarely enough GCDs to make perfect use).

BOS isnt about breath damage. It is also about free GCDs and more obliterates, HBs and more stacks of Gathering Storm.

And BOS bursts much higher than the other options. So if BOS timings are good i see no reason to pick anything than BOS as the BOS build is good on single target and very strong on any cleave/aoe.

And only 2/9 fights are pure single target in TOS... and BOS is now shorter and hits for insane damage.

Of course you can play the other options. But HRW and Obliteration dont feel good. They might work out or pull ahead on pure single target. But pure single target is very rare.

And BOS build works everywhere. With the MG builds you need to respec for cleave and AOE.

[hellhamster]

What about legendaries? Tor + CH should be BIS but waist should be trailing closely behind, especially for Obliteration. Is the Deathlord ring a thing now for aoe and cleave?

[Schizoide]

And BOS build works everywhere. With the MG builds you need to respec for cleave and AOE.

Except BoS isn't AE, so it shouldn't work that way. HRW just can't compete.

[Hellbread]

What about legendaries? Tor + CH should be BIS but waist should be trailing closely behind, especially for Obliteration. Is the Deathlord ring a thing now for aoe and cleave?

Short answer: no one knows because it's hard to test AoE damage in PTR. Long Answer: Maybe.

[Deleted]

Anyone tested frost in pvp? Unholy clearly outshines it pre 7.3 but changes are massive for frost.

[Deleted]

Except BoS isn't AE, so it shouldn't work that way. HRW just can't compete.

BOS is AOE. Not because of its cleave damage, but because of free GCDs. You dont need to dump RP so you can focus on obliterate and gathering storm/howling blast.

Obliterate is just crap for AOE and Hungering RW is garbage because of ressources overcapping.

If you think BOS is only about BOS damage then you dont understand BOS. BOS is also about having free GCDs during proc luck, making optimal use of HoW, ERW and procs.

Just look here at the right side with 3 targets cleave:
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php...1503948320.png

Look at the variance. BOS+ GS can transform proc luck into insane dps because no rune is wasted. More procs - more obs - more GS damage and more HBs. With BOS ticking, dealing high dps and constantly transforming rp into runes...

Without BOS excessive procs lead to ressources overcapping. In AOE you want to use OB and HB - but need to waste GCDs for FS...

[Deleted]

Just let the dust settle for a few days. Wait until the new APL is optimized and everything is up to date and see what sims of the own character + logs in ToS are showing for different Talents etc.

BoS still is a great burst CD even more than before. But with the Shorter uptime and all ressoruce synergies broken its hard to prolong RW like we could before.

Klatar has some valid Points. Having RE/HB procs during HRW will be awful (if you even want to cast FS during HRW, i dunno). Sounds like Unholy in 7.2 when you just coulnd use all the Runic Power for DC

[Baddok21]

BOS is AOE. Not because of its cleave damage, but because of free GCDs. You dont need to dump RP so you can focus on obliterate and gathering storm/howling blast.

Obliterate is just crap for AOE and Hungering RW is garbage because of ressources overcapping.

If you think BOS is only about BOS damage then you dont understand BOS. BOS is also about having free GCDs during proc luck, making optimal use of HoW, ERW and procs.

Just look here at the right side with 3 targets cleave:
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php...1503948320.png

Look at the variance. BOS+ GS can transform proc luck into insane dps because no rune is wasted. More procs - more obs - more GS damage and more HBs. With BOS ticking, dealing high dps and constantly transforming rp into runes...

Without BOS excessive procs lead to ressources overcapping. In AOE you want to use OB and HB - but need to waste GCDs for FS...

Im surprised so many people have a hard time grappling with the fact BoS true strength is its ability to spend resources off the GCD, and all the cumulative benefits that come with that, your free to just OB and Rime without a wasted GCD on Frost strike in cleave and AoE scenario's.

not to mention BoS 2 target cleave, and higher Damage per RP spent (shattering strikes asside).

Obliteration could have been a good talent if they simply made it give 8-10 charges rather than a flat 10 second duration, as it stands the only 100 talent that get a meaningful gain from Lust and 2+ target scenario's is BoS.

[Piz813]

Had the same thought, then they post notice of an 8 hour maintenance

yeah that 8 hour reset is gonna stink.

the loot Gods are cruel indeed. they gave me Soul of Deathlord today turning in legionfall supplies... there goes my Frost plan. F#$%

[Schizoide]

I'm not a new poster or theorycrafter. I fully appreciate that it frees GCDs and while I haven't seen the sims yet, you're most likely correct that it's the best choice in an AE scenario. What I'm saying is that BoS shouldn't be the best AE talent because it doesn't scale past 2 targets. HRW should be the best AE talent in that tier. It isn't, which is a problem in both design and implementation.