Battle for Azeroth Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Therougetitan]

I think Ion said something about Item levels and the big numbers on gamescom (interviews)

Yeah he did. He said this time they were going to squish item levels. Reason being especially for new players leveling and they go through Outland to Northrend to get 100+ ilevel upgrades yet only get a tiny bit of stats never made sense. So item level will make more sense in the next expac.

[Paula Deen]

I wouldn't mind it. Although they could do another item squish without a character level squish.

One trick that Blizzard perhaps missed was using the character titles as new Class names. They already have titles for the Classes in Legion anyway. Maybe when a Death knight hit level 101, he'd be called a level 1 Deathlord instead. So going into Expansion 7, we'd be level 10 Deathlords and Archmages and Archdruids and the rest of it instead of level 110 Death knights and Mages and Druids.

This is fucking genius.

[Nyalite]

Some of the titles would be so fucking edgelord tho

"Im a level 10 SLAYER"

[MadamSerenity]

I wouldn't mind it. Although they could do another item squish without a character level squish.

One trick that Blizzard perhaps missed was using the character titles as new Class names. They already have titles for the Classes in Legion anyway. Maybe when a Death knight hit level 101, he'd be called a level 1 Deathlord instead. So going into Expansion 7, we'd be level 10 Deathlords and Archmages and Archdruids and the rest of it instead of level 110 Death knights and Mages and Druids.

I REALLY love this idea! That would be amazing!

[Nightstalker]

I really hope this itemlevel madness stops. ILVL 1000 in Legion and then cut it back to starting at 100 in the next expansion which 200 being the maximum. In Legion we went from ~ 700 - 1000 - 300 itemlevels in just one expansion - this is hilarious, dumb and nonsense at the same time. Blizzard really needs to fix their numbers (skills already doing 10 million crits or more). We need a very harsh and very consequent prune this time that lasts longer than 2 years. I just wish we would go back to TBC numbers and stay there.

More like 810 to 1000, but keep talking about numbers if you don't know your stuff . . .

[Paula Deen]

In terms of item level I would imagine that if the goal is simplification (lets face it, the entire game has been that for years now) They would base item levels off of level groups much like ESO does.

All items 1-60 are just that, 1-60.
60-70, is raid gear from Vanilla and BC Dungeons.
70 to 80 is BC raids and LK Dungeons
80-85 is LK Raids and Cata Dungeons.
85-90 is Cata Raids and MoP Dungeons
90-100 is MoP Raids and WoD Dungeons
100 to 110 is WoD Raids and Legion Dungeons
110 to 120 is Legion Raids and XXX Dungeons
125 is XXX Raid Gear Cap

By doing it like this they do a few things.

1. The assblasting from not getting a piece of Titanforged Gear goes way the fuck down if 'Oh it only titanforged 1 item level higher (Stats are still the same, most likely, but you get the idea and the majority of casual LFR Heroes will feel less booty bothered when they see some idiot get TF)

2. Simpler for new players to understand, which is honestly a big plus no matter how you look at it. The amount of shit I have had to explain to new players about BC and LK Gear being better even though the ilvl is lower will drop by quite a bit.

3. It allows them to move away from the current drop system and towards a GW2/ESO 'Upgrade' System where you craft your ass off and RNGesus the way to victory past a certain point. This extends the games life however also pisses everyone off.

Edit: Bonus Idea; Item Level is based on Player Level, just like ESO at endgame. This promotes world activity all over the place and is a plus, but I am way too fucking lazy to flesh out some shitty fan idea like that in a thread about 8.0 Rumors. Someone call Golden Yak for that shit.

[derpkitteh]

i would just leave shit how it is.

it's an imaginary problem. there's no issues with how things are other than self-inflicted butthurt over meaningless shit.

[Kazlofski]

Squishing levels? is 110 that high of a number?

[Lahis]

Squishing levels? is 110 that high of a number?

[Nyel]

More like 810 to 1000, but keep talking about numbers if you don't know your stuff . . .

Does it matter though? Then it's only 200. I took the first quest rewards as basis (it's either 680 or something around 700) not the former HFC Mythic ILVL or whatever you took when you talked about 810.

Edit: just looked it up, HFC Mythic gear is max 735 so how do you even come to 810? Don't I know my stuff or don't you know yours?

[Deleted]

Incoming content drought which they will claim wasn't a drought because of these "minor patches" with an hours worth of content.

Or instead of complaining you could just unsub....

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What is your guys point on a Level Squish? Instead of going to 120, we get squished down to 60 again, with a another itemsquish with more reasonable itemlevels. It is pretty weird to have Itemlevels up to 1000 :S

Noway. I wanna go 120+ so that one day Ill be 200, cause thats more reasonable for me then go back in time and be 60 again....

[Shadochi]

Does it matter though? Then it's only 200. I took the first quest rewards as basis (it's either 680 or something around 700) not the former HFC Mythic ILVL or whatever you took when you talked about 810.

Edit: just looked it up, HFC Mythic gear is max 735 so how do you even come to 810? Don't I know my stuff or don't you know yours?

In that case it would be 795 to 1000, since you seem to be looking at the cap Legendary items will have in Legion (which is fair since it'll be the highest iLvL) it's only fair to look at the WoD ring cap too. I agree it's a lot for 3 tiers of raiding + N/HC/M dungeons but if they are squishing iLvLs after legion then it kind of feels right to end it on a 1000.

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I will un-sub. So will hundreds of thousands of others. That's kind of the point.

A regular level squish would only further break leveling, and people would only visit a couple zones by the time they hit max. And if you're seriously gonna un-sub because of a level increase which is NEEDED in every expansion (Cata/MoP showed that +10 is better than +5 per expansion) then just already go.

[Nyel]

In that case it would be 795 to 1000, since you seem to be looking at the cap Legendary items will have in Legion (which is fair since it'll be the highest iLvL) it's only fair to look at the WoD ring cap too. I agree it's a lot for 3 tiers of raiding + N/HC/M dungeons but if they are squishing iLvLs after legion then it kind of feels right to end it on a 1000.

You're right, my mistake here. The legendary ring in WoD could be upgraded to 795, so that brings us to 795 in WoD and 1000 in Legion. HFC Mythic dropped 735 and Antorus Mythic will drop 970 (985 forged). So the difference between non-legendary items is 235 (?) and for legendary items 205 ILVLs - too much.

A regular level squish would only further break leveling, and people would only visit a couple zones by the time they hit max. And if you're seriously gonna un-sub because of a level increase which is NEEDED in every expansion (Cata/MoP showed that +10 is better than +5 per expansion) then just already go.

That's why they really should introduce scaling to every zone and item to avoid such gaps. For the long run a world scaling technology would be the best for the game.

[8bithamster]

I will un-sub. So will hundreds of thousands of others. That's kind of the point.

always glad we have a random person on the internet who thinks he/she/it speaks for "thousands of others".. Good job!

[Shadochi]

You're right, my mistake here. The legendary ring in WoD could be upgraded to 795, so that brings us to 795 in WoD and 1000 in Legion. HFC Mythic dropped 735 and Antorus Mythic will drop 970 (985 forged). So the difference between non-legendary items is 235 (?) and for legendary items 205 ILVLs - too much.

Item levels, and in turn the stat numbers they bring (Mostly HP and DMG, since other stats are seen in %) are getting crazy for sure. Hope that their more permanent squish is some way that all final tiers for future expansions (and past) are always similar, either by doing stat diminishing the further you outlevel a piece of gear or some type of scaling.

That's why they really should introduce scaling to every zone and item to avoid such gaps. For the long run a world scaling technology would be the best for the game.

Honestly, the way I would deal with leveling to try and please everyone is increase the XP needed per level, so people could do a couple zones per expansion, but also increase the heirloom XP bonus so that if you want to level faster you would still need the same amount of quests as you do now with looms in order to pass an (increased XP) level.

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That wasn't even what I was talking about. I agree this game needs a squish.

Hell we all need to go back to being adventurers. Instead of god killing "Deathlords".

Ah, that makes sense. Sorry, thought you were saying you'll unsub if levels get to 200.

As for adventurers, I personally don't mind it since I love any type of leveling, but you just know people would spam "Go get boar poop" memes.

[DelusionalBear]

One trick that Blizzard perhaps missed was using the character titles as new Class names. They already have titles for the Classes in Legion anyway. Maybe when a Death knight hit level 101, he'd be called a level 1 Deathlord instead. So going into Expansion 7, we'd be level 10 Deathlords and Archmages and Archdruids and the rest of it instead of level 110 Death knights and Mages and Druids.

I doubt Blizzard will go this route. I may understand the appeal, but your class name is one thing, while title that represents your relative power level is completely another. Not to mention system like that will be very confusing for new players. If they ever going to do something about level number its probably will be some kind of paragon system, like every 10 levels above 100 = 1 paragon level.

Don't know this for sure, but looking back at earliest development screenshots, I've never seen characters above 255 level, which means they probably use BYTE sized variable for character level in their data structures. Its also mean that 255 is the highest possible level and this is not that big of a number to worry about squishing levels. At current rate 1 xpac = 10 levels = 2 years, we're good for another 13 xpacs or 26 years and then some.

[Nyel]

Honestly, the way I would deal with leveling to try and please everyone is increase the XP needed per level, so people could do a couple zones per expansion, but also increase the heirloom XP bonus so that if you want to level faster you would still need the same amount of quests as you do now with looms in order to pass an (increased XP) level.

Just scale everything and we have no issues. I mean leveling will still be very easy but the 60 or 70 "old" zones still have a point. I just wish they would introduce some kind of alternative leveling system (Elder Scrolls Online has something similar) or an account wide "legacy" leveling where you can unlock mounts, pets, and fluff stuff (so that leveling at max level still makes sense).

[Shadochi]

I doubt Blizzard will go this route. I may understand the appeal, but your class name is one thing, while title that represents your relative power level is completely another. Not to mention system like that will be very confusing for new players. If they ever going to do something about level number its probably will be some kind of paragon system, like every 10 levels above 100 = 1 paragon level.

Don't know this for sure, but looking back at earliest development screenshots, I've never seen characters above 255 level, which means they probably use BYTE sized variable for character level in their data structures. Its also mean that 255 is the highest possible level and this is not that big of a number to worry about squishing levels. At current rate 1 xpac = 10 levels = 2 years, we're good for another 13 xpacs or 26 years and then some.

They overcame the 2.1+billion HP limit (32 bit) in Legion (In MoP I believe they had to use multiple HP bars on Garrosh for it) so changing the way levels are stored shouldn't be too hard if needed. They probably haven't done it yet just because it's not needed yet.

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Just scale everything and we have no issues. I mean leveling will still be very easy but the 60 or 70 "old" zones still have a point. I just wish they would introduce some kind of alternative leveling system (Elder Scrolls Online has something similar) or an account wide "legacy" leveling where you can unlock mounts, pets, and fluff stuff (so that leveling at max level still makes sense).

Even with level scaling the issue would still be present, maybe even worse since you wouldn't outlevel quests in TBC or Wrath zones forcing you to go to the next one. Increasing XP needed by a couple times and the heirloom bonus (and the bonus from other XP bonuses) by a lot would mean that if you wanna finish the expansion in 1 zone (like it is now for most) you can, while if you wanna do 2-3 zones you still could. And then even scaling should be introduced so that each expac scales to the levels it introduced.

And there is an alternative way of leveling, dungeons. Get the 2 XP potions, full looms and either Q for LFD or get a max level friend to boost you in dungeons. (Gets more worth it starting TBC).

[Deleted]

Where is stated that we need to level till the exp cap in 1 zone?

[Nyel]

I'm not talking about an alternative way of getting to the max level but a completely new system with levels (ESO Champion System, SWTOR Legacy). As soon as you reach max level your XP benefit your alternative system leveling you up there, starting at 1 with max level being 20 in Legion, 25 in the next expansion etc. On each level you unlock transmog items, pets, mounts or whatever. And every 5th level you get something "big". Could be tied to heirloom as well and look something like this:

1: get heirloom 1, 2, 3
2: unlock all flying routes on Azeroth
3: reduce hearthstone CD
4:
5: get a 2 player mount
6:
...
10: get the transmog set 1, 2, 3
...
20: Unlock flying in Legion

You could tie all the flying achievements to this alternative system (which is account wide) or reputation or whatever. Would solve many issues we have in game right now.