[Megathread] Star Citizen

[masterhorus8]

I have been following this game for several years now and I feel that this is getting to be a very similar landscape.

I feel like this game is going the way of FireFall. You pay money to get a beta play and you keep playing while they keep developing but there is no real definitive release date of the game and it is in a steady state of Beta flux.

The Space combat is amazing from videos I have seen and the ships and AI look great as well. But I cant help but shake the feeling of FireFall part Deux. I have seen some packages and am really tempted in backing, but I have to ask....

I refuse to go through 227 pages of reviews, debates, arguments and such. From those that have backed and played what they could, how is its current state and do you feel that a release is on the horizon of the next 5 years or so? I can afford to drop 100 on the game but I need to have a feel from those that actually played what is available.

Ehh, probably wait. I'm surprised that there wasn't one this last week/weekend, but around this time of year (from about now to around Christmas, barring patch releases), CIG tends to do some Free Fly events. You'd only be required to make an account and pay nothing, and you can download the current patch (2.6.3) and play to your hearts content, unless the servers say "no" (networking problems will be fixed in a future™ patch, supposedly 3.1). Probably by the end of the year, patch 3.0 will release, and I would expect a Free Fly event with that. A lot of people want to consider 3.0 the start of beta, but that would likely be the end of the 3.x patches.

At the moment, there's dogfighting, fps, a few missions, some space stations, and a small chunk of a star system available. No persistence yet, but that is going to be part of the 3.0 release. 3.0 is supposed to include planetary landing (currently only moons), some more moons added, character customization, new item system, some more missions, cargo stuff, some more ships, some more fps stuff, performance improvement (NOT network), and some other stuff (old post, but most of it is still there).

Right now, they're in the process of bugfixing to get it to a releasable state for release. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report

Don't bother putting any money in unless you're confident that you're willing to wait for eventual release without getting cold feet and requesting a refund and really wanting to keep playing the development patches. But even then, at least wait for a free fly event first.

[KyrtF]

I have been following this game for several years now and I feel that this is getting to be a very similar landscape.

I feel like this game is going the way of FireFall. You pay money to get a beta play and you keep playing while they keep developing but there is no real definitive release date of the game and it is in a steady state of Beta flux.

The Space combat is amazing from videos I have seen and the ships and AI look great as well. But I cant help but shake the feeling of FireFall part Deux. I have seen some packages and am really tempted in backing, but I have to ask....

I refuse to go through 227 pages of reviews, debates, arguments and such. From those that have backed and played what they could, how is its current state and do you feel that a release is on the horizon of the next 5 years or so? I can afford to drop 100 on the game but I need to have a feel from those that actually played what is available.

I'll give you the same advice I'd hive anyone else.

First...I do not believe this is a scam. CIG are developing this game.
Second...if they get it right, it'll be an amazing experience
Third...its getting harder to ignore the likelihood that they are stringing out development to maximise their current money maker - ship sales.

Should you "drop a hundred" on it?
No. I would estimate the game will be out late 2020, 2021 (at the earliest) myself but the game is years away from being release viable. There is still a huge amount of work to do and CIG don't have a rep for speed.

I would advise you to try the next free fly weekends when they are advertised. That should give you an idea of what is happening.

But I wouldn't recommend spending any money on the game till after its released.

[Majestic12]

By the way, for those thinking that the FOIP is feature creep, it has been a thing since at least Sep 2013. Not saying it should've gone in now (honestly, probably should've been a while...), but it has been in the works for quite some time. Long enough for it to be a Wingman's Hangar video.
Source: 39 seconds in

That's my only problem with foip. It's basically icing added to a cake that doesn't exist yet. All these integrated systems only push stability further and further away. Now they're going to try to integrate Spectrum into 3.0 and move all the voice/face traffic there instead of the game client. Let's just say that 3.0 is still extremely far away and Chris was delusional when he said December.

- - - Updated - - -

I have been following this game for several years now and I feel that this is getting to be a very similar landscape.

I feel like this game is going the way of FireFall. You pay money to get a beta play and you keep playing while they keep developing but there is no real definitive release date of the game and it is in a steady state of Beta flux.

The Space combat is amazing from videos I have seen and the ships and AI look great as well. But I cant help but shake the feeling of FireFall part Deux. I have seen some packages and am really tempted in backing, but I have to ask....

I refuse to go through 227 pages of reviews, debates, arguments and such. From those that have backed and played what they could, how is its current state and do you feel that a release is on the horizon of the next 5 years or so? I can afford to drop 100 on the game but I need to have a feel from those that actually played what is available.

Honestly? The release within 5 years depends on which game you mean. Squadron 42 is the Single player game which will be released first. You'll see that within 5 years. The MMO I wouldn't count on it.

Don't buy into the game now. Wait for a free flight week so you can try the game.

[Odeezee]

i really enjoyed the Gamescom content that we got to see last week. from the 3.0 demo on the show floor my favorite part was the devs showing the Release and Catch from low orbit. if no one has seen this i highly recommend it.

https://clips.twitch.tv/AffluentGenerousBisonYouDontSay

as for the live presentation i enjoyed the content; the FOIP (including directional sound and head tracking) was really awesome (it's good to see a stretch goal met) and has great immersive potential for sure, the Mobiglas apps were really great to see and it will be the one stop shop for pretty much anything and everything to do with the game (without taking you out of the game - i hope we get mini-game apps hooked in in the future), Levski looked great and it was good to see that the base level of subsumption was in and working (the seated NPC followed the players character and he walked around near him) even though it hd some glitches (one of the bar patrons unable to walk past his stool - or was he just crazy drunk and it was an intended consequence? haha), Miles Eckhart looks sooooo much better than last year from his look to his facial expression (job well done to CIG for that and looking forward to the branching missions and the 26 different archetypes that will spawn them just have to hope they feel different enough from one another to warrant the splitting), the Connie looked amazing and brand spanking new, loved the shots of it (though i would love for them to put in different trails based on which engines you were using like i want QD jumps to show a different glow in the engines, etc), Daymar looked just as good as shown on the show floor, the Idrisi look really great and i loved the weighty feel to them (great job on those) and i am looking forward to the 10+ hour long tour of one when we finally get on in the PU/SQ2.

yes, there was a crash, issues with the Idris ramp (pilot should have either chosen flatter ground or as we learned from the show floor "turned off" the engines to avoid the de-syncing and clipping issues of the ramp), some heavy scripting involved and QA roleplaying banter going on (personally i enjoyed it and found Melissa to be funny in a quirky way, i would have liked it more though if they were not talking over each other or being interrupted by CR) but CR did let us know before the stream started to expect bugs so i feel as though with that said the bugs are an irrelevance for me. i got to see the framework that we will get to experience SC in when we get 3.0 and beyond and i am looking forward to put it through it's paces once we do!

for those who want a more sanitised version of the presentation including no banter you can watch this:

[KyrtF]

i really enjoyed the Gamescom content that we got to see last week.

It was OK. I was disappointed that there was nothing more substantial shown. Maybe at CitizenCon.

as for the live presentation i enjoyed the content; the FOIP (including directional sound and head tracking) was really awesome

Case on point. FOIP is flashy...if they get it working...but today wasn't the right time to be adding it. Its a cosmetic aspect of the game and the game needs too much work carried out to its foundation for me to wrlcome it now. I personally would have preferred working netcode and confirmation their work on the actual game engine was finished. Then there is the work that is necessary on what are to be the planned gameplay mechanics. And more. There is so much still left to do and I find it concerning that CIG found time to add in a cosmetic feature that will sell webcams as opposed to actual game mechanics.

And far from looking good, I felt the demo highlighted how SCs lead had vanished. The worlds looked great....but the characters and ships felt average at best. And lets not talk about FOIP...it might be "impressive" when its working, but right now it still needs a lot of work. The character models aren't good enough to get away with it right now.

es, there was a crash, issues with the Idris ramp (pilot should have either chosen flatter ground or as we learned from the show floor "turned off" the engines to avoid the de-syncing and clipping issues of the ramp), some heavy scripting involved and QA roleplaying banter going on (personally i enjoyed it and found Melissa to be funny in a quirky way, i would have liked it more though if they were not talking over each other or being interrupted by CR) but CR did let us know before the stream started to expect bugs so i feel as though with that said the bugs are an irrelevance for me. i got to see the framework that we will get to experience SC in when we get 3.0 and beyond and i am looking forward to put it through it's paces once we do!

EVERYONE is looking forward to 3.0

As for the crash...let's be accurate.

This was...I expect...a heavily scripted handcrafted demo designed and tested specifically for Gamescom, running on the most powerful PCs CIG could provide and running on a network designed to minimise lag and latency issues. CIG had tested it and designed it in such a way so as to avoid the players triggering any bugs, especially bugs serious enough to trigger a crash.

Yet it still crashed. One can't excuse that simply by telling us it was an Alpha. Alpha means we should expect bugs....which is why CIG should have taken special care to provide a demo which was stable enough and scripted enough and tested enough to avoid such issues.

That means either the build is less stable than CIG believed, there are more bugs than CIG believed or they don't care enough to do this properly.

And that was in addition to the sync issues, graphical glitches, animation and FPS issues and other problems that were on display. It puts in context the new planned release date of October as very necessary and raises the possibility that those saying 3.0 will indeed be an end of year release...just EOY 2017 instead of EOY 2016...with the rumoured December release date are correct.

And no.....the ramp issue cannot and should not be dismissed with the excuse of "the pilot should have chosen flatter ground".

[Odeezee]

talk about EPIC! really loved watching these parts especially, among others ofc.





what parts did other people enjoy from the livestream or showfloor at Gamescom?

[WoWGoneBad]

This was an interesting watch. The visuals were good, the combat was decent and the ships look great so far. I think I will need to keep more of an eye on this game

[Odeezee]

This was an interesting watch. The visuals were good, the combat was decent and the ships look great so far. I think I will need to keep more of an eye on this game

yeah, it shows great promise if they can add, bug fix, polish and make fun all the gameplay elements they want to include for full release. i would also watch out for any Free-Fly Weekends (might get one when they release Update Alpha Patch 3.0 to the PU alpha testbed for backers) and try it out for yourself. just keep in mind that the game is still in early alpha so it will be buggy and missing many features/mechanics, but they will come and the main point of the alpha is for feedback.

[sabe]

I wonder how much money and dev time they wasted for scripted games on demo.
Makes me think CIG is going broke. They are trying so hard to make more money.
I won't be surprised if they start selling ships for half the price soon.

[Cyclone Jack]

I wonder how much money and dev time they wasted for scripted games on demo.
Makes me think CIG is going broke. They are trying so hard to make more money.
I won't be surprised if they start selling ships for half the price soon.

No more than every other demo made by every other developer at a trade show. That's how demos at trade shows work. They are scripted and rehearsed and typically have more polish put in place for the areas that will be shown.

[Majestic12]

talk about EPIC! really loved watching these parts especially, among others ofc.





what parts did other people enjoy from the livestream or showfloor at Gamescom?

Out of all the things, I'd say the Idris vs Idris prelude. The interaction between the two ships. That accurately represents how the MMO would be if you see a player(and they pick up).

[KyrtF]

No more than every other demo made by every other developer at a trade show. That's how demos at trade shows work. They are scripted and rehearsed and typically have more polish put in place for the areas that will be shown.

The problem is that other developers usually do demos of their Beta versions and release candidates.

CIG right now is arguably still in the PRE-Alpha phase of the games development. Its still working on the engine it needs before it can go full Alpha.

Right now its devoting a lot of time creating in game assets such as ships but without having a working fully developed engine, netcode etc in place, the odds are very good a lot of those assets will need to be reworked to some degree. Its the same for the hyped up features such as VOIP and FOIP...without netcode in place, CIG cannot tell how much bandwidth it has available and so are pushing in game features which are cosmetic, not related to gameplay and may not even be viable when the game launches. And they are doing this while the foundation of the game needs to be finished. A lot of this stuff will be nice to have, but its the sort of detail that should be worked on towards the end of the development phase, when the rest of the game is working. When there actually IS a game for these to be attached to.

And you also have to realise...this demo we saw last Friday very likely WAS scripted and rehearsed and appears to be an on rails system tuat showed very little of the true SC so it could be very easily controlled. It was likely running on a LAN to minimise any concerns about network lag and it was likely running on the most power PCs CIG could provide.

It still crashed...still had FPS issues...still had sync issues...still had problems with multiplayer gameplay...and more.

This HAD to have been a version specifically developed as a demo given what we know was missing...persistence for one....and it still had all those problems.

That isn't a good sign for the "release candidate" of 3.0. On the plus side, the demo did have a couple of "wow" moments. That capital ship landing for example.

But if this demo...which should be more impressive and more stable than the real build...was this bad, then the real build is months away from being ready. Maybe if they cut some features from 3.0 for 3.1 we might get a stable build for 3.0 in time for their now planned October release date.

But as I said, overall...despite some impressive scenes...I found the entire demo disappointing. Too many bugs...too many crashes...too many issues...too much left out...no news about what we can expect...no gameplay loop...graphics that are showing their age...those faces when they demonstrated FOIP. And more. A few moments of "wow" does not balance out the major disappointment and flaws over the lack of news, lack of new gameplay, lack of S42 and bugs and glitches galore.

[Odeezee]

very nice edit of the Gamescom presentation from CIG, they even mixed audio for the sake of coherency:

[Omians]

facerigging for mic talking. nice

[Tackhisis]

So, will we see the 3.0 in the 2017 or not?

[masterhorus8]

So, will we see the 3.0 in the 2017 or not?

Soon™.


Note: This most recent week was likely a Go/NoGo meeting, where they determined that there were 5 more bugs that needed fixing...
OR this...

[nocturnus]

Well, I can't imagine anyone sane buying this in its current state.

The idea is so cool, it makes me doubt it will ever be able to live up to its own hype. Add to that the fact that its estimated release date keeps being pushed back and I start to doubt it will ever even be released to begin with. Smells like a big scam to me.

[KyrtF]

Soon™.


Note: This most recent week was likely a Go/NoGo meeting, where they determined that there were 5 more bugs that needed fixing...
OR this...

I'm mostly wondering what they did to introduce 5 new bugs just a couple of days after getting it down to "zero".

I'd agree that they "determined there were 5 nore bugs that needed fixing" but considering that these are "Must Fix" issues that only raises questions about their QA and testing process as they weren't part of the count before.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, I can't imagine anyone sane buying this in its current state.

The idea is so cool, it makes me doubt it will ever be able to live up to its own hype. Add to that the fact that its estimated release date keeps being pushed back and I start to doubt it will ever even be released to begin with. Smells like a big scam to me.

I can understand why people back it.

Its got a great vision. Its a vision thats worth backing.

I just don't understand why people are throwing thousands of dollars to buy a $60 game, nor why so many seem so relaxed and accepting of the extremely slow progress as neither the game engine, netcode nor flight model appears complete or ready. 3.0 might...***MIGHT***...see an updated or even complete engine but the netcode won't be in the game till 3.1 at the earliest and who knows when they'll get the flight model working right.

I can explain it.....CR and CIG basically tossed out three years of work when they created F42, while at the same time extending their workload by embracing feature creep and bloat, and by creating assets so early they need to be redone two or three times.

But I can't understand why so many are accepting of that pace, or why so many makes excuses for CIG rather than holding them accountable.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

But I can't understand why so many are accepting of that pace, or why so many makes excuses for CIG rather than holding them accountable.

Because we do hold CIG accountable; they mishandled planning out their project. It already happened. What does matter, is that CIG has learned valuable lessons from their early development years and has refined the design (and is committed to finishing said design before they start throwing more ideas onto the game again).

As for the pace, just look at the development cycle of similar games of this scale: WoW, SWTOR, Destiny, etc. Star Citizen has yet to have been in development for anywhere near as long as them. A game with this many ambitious features requires an absolutely incredibly amount of man hours just developing them, let alone testing them and then taking those features back to the drawing board when they don't pan out. There isn't anything notable about the rate at which the game is coming along.

We knew what we signed up for when we backed it, that we were in for the long haul. We backed because we believe in Chris Roberts - the man who pioneered the genre - to deliver what we enjoyed and thirsted more of Freelancer and Wing Commander, and we are enthralled following the development process. Never before has their been a game of this scale where the community was shown such an in depth look into how it is being made - from programming, to art design, to SFX, to mo-cap, the modelling, to bug testing, to game design, to even creating their own dev tools - it is truly a first. As for everyone else, I'd advise what I have said for any kickstarted/greenlight/alpha/in development game: just wait until the game has come far enough along to be worth - in your eyes - the asking price. Only buy a game as if it was finished (no more updates) and ask yourself if you are fine with what it is for right then. If so, then buy it. If not, then wait.

[Eleccybubb]

-snip-

They clearly haven't learnt their lesson or shit wouldn't be getting delayed still among other excuses.

And WoW was in development for at least 5 years since 1999. Destiny 4 years. Star Citizen is going on 5 years and still consistent delays and excuses. Stop excusing that the game "needs time". It should be ready in some form by now. Not a crappy pre alpha.

Star Citizen development started in 2012. So 5 years. So no it has been in development just as long if not longer than games just as big. Don't lie about it not being in development for as long as big as/bigger games because that's just grasping at straws.

And people are starting to believe in Chris Roberts less and less other than the people who are defending the game like it's the best thing to happen since sliced bread despite the fact that the only thing that has happened in 5 years is Alpha/Pre Alpha. And no they can be as in depth with development videos as they want. The fact is 5 years and consistent delays is not softened by them showing us the development process of a lunar buggy or some particle effects.

Now a better question. Where is the hype for this game now? I literally see none anymore. That's what 5 years on top of delays and excuses does to a game I guess.