Can we all agree that artifacts and legendaries were a mistake?

[gerlach1025]

Unless you are trying to compete with the best players in the world the lack of legendaries and non-maxed Weapon can all be worked around. Yes it's nice to have everything unlocked and all the best legendaries but it does not prevent you from doing any of the content.

[Tradu]

The amount of stuff you could grind hasn't been as high in previous expansions but it has been more important in previous expansions, since it's basically irrelevant in Legion, which is why outside of the top 0.5% of raiders the complaints are nonsense, just don't do it.

I really don't, even in your own guilds Harjatan kill last week, three rogues dps spread is more skill based than gear, same with the two fire mages. Compare the top two rogues difference in damage with quite comparable gear to the two unholy DKs with not comparable gear, there's a larger gap between the rogues because of.... Skill bro.

Harjatan is a shit fight to look at, but sure. Even if you look at Goroth, you're right, there's a noticeable difference. I just don't think legendaries should add as much to that difference as they do, and especially not if they have to be random drops. Skill should be the primary thing making a difference with gear being the only other(much less important, ideally) factor, and Legion has heavily diminished that through a bunch of systems(including AP/legendaries)

[Vorkreist]

No, because you can get 2 legendary very fast if you switch spec loot.

NOW, if you want BiS one because you are a pro raider l33t and you can't lose 10k dps, well, you shuold think about it sooner!

You should really check around how the legendaries work for other classes before writing something this stupid. For some it can be up to 25% performance difference with BIS legendaries.

[Tradu]

Well, for sane people, it's end is basically Concordance. The extra ranks give you something to use AP on otherwise people would just bank AP tokens and then as soon as the new tier of artifact traits came out they'd have them all (you know, kinda how they already do anyways)
The current system just means instead of sitting on AP in your bank, you're sitting on it in your weapon while also getting a little something for your troubles.
No sane person says "I have to max concordance" and then endlessly grinds AP 24/7.
The artifact system, at least the point you made, is fine.

This is true for the current live version of AP. It's not true for the previous versions and (at least initially) the version that's hitting tomorrow/over the next 3 weeks.

[Lartok]

Harjatan is a shit fight to look at, but sure. Even if you look at Goroth, you're right, there's a noticeable difference. I just don't think legendaries should add as much to that difference as they do, and especially not if they have to be random drops. Skill should be the primary thing making a difference with gear being the only other(much less important, ideally) factor, and Legion has heavily diminished that through a bunch of systems(including AP/legendaries)

I'm right regardless of what fight or guild you look at.

No, Legion hasn't diminished it. That's what I'm saying the average player has always put to much stock in to gear because it's easier than putting effort in to improving, people are lazy and stupid, they'll blame whatever they can but that doesn't make them right. Skill has always been and still is the primary factor in determining a players ability, gear is secondary and the RNG is irrelevant for everyone that isn't getting world firsts, because they don't NEED better gear to kill bosses it just helps because they're shit and rarely actually get better.

[anon5123]

Because you're absolutely not endlessly farming the same raids or dungeons at all to progress your character, oh no sir. M-mm no way.

Mostly because doing raids is actually fun and interesting, not just steamrolling through a braindead easy quests over and over

And you can only do each raid once per week.

nice try though

Everything in WoW is a grind, it's always been that way, and you can also get artifact power other activities, so if you want to do harder content to upgrade your weapon, there's the option to do that too.

The amount of AP you get from M+ is pitiful compared to world quests

Also, nobody's forcing you to grind artifact power, you could always just, take a step back and relax.

Step back and.....do nothing. Great game design.

[Deleted]

No, next!

PS: Legendaries and traits don't give you hands. Seriously, every time I see a post with someone blaming on legendaries, I see an excuse to be mediocre because "blizz hates you and it gives you a bad legendary". SURPIRSE there are not bad legendaries, they are all far superior to any epic, even the shittiest. Also, AK is for something, you can get several traits in off-specs with 1 AP token or 2. Anyways, the legendaries may not be your spec, but is a 970 piece of gear, you only lose the effect and for some legs only. Artifact appearances and how to obtain them is one of the best, if not the best thing Blizz has done ever related to gear. They do encourage you to do lots of diferent content (campaign, pve, pvp, random stuff, challenges, etc) and (most of them) are amazingly designed.

[Accendor]

that's bad, because it's artificial content. i don't for a moment login and think "oh boy, lets watch this shit move 1/16th of an inch". it's frustrating and boring.

finality is what this game is missing these days. there should be a point where you have reached your max progression. but now there is none. rng gear, endless artifact grind, rng legendaries, it's just stupid. if you can't get that finality, there's no true feeling of satisfaction.

You mean there is no feeling of not having anything left to do...

[Flurryfang]

Legendaries are dumb or rather how they worked this expansion, but Artifacts.....

Artifacts are the best thing made in this expansion. It is one of the best modifying systems for classes ever made and it has ignited mine and others will to play new classes, because they have cool apperance and create interesting changes to classes... So Artifacts.... Are fucking awesome!!

[Accendor]

I don't personally agree, I much prefer having an actual "end", but the current live version is a reasonable middle ground(essentially infinite "progression", but not a huge amount of power increase from it)

Actually I think the current form is way to weak because it basically feels like no progression at all.

[Deleted]

Step back and.....do nothing. Great game design.

I don't get the argument? Are Blizzard supposed to design the game so there is always something to do and rely on people not to act like idiots and play all day every day or are they supposed to create a system with clear end points so that people know when to stop.

In the latter how is it any different from what I gonna has said?

[Deleted]

Yes and yes.
Artifacts could have been the best thing since talent trees, but they just had to be implemented as an endless AP grind with only a few select traits worth the time, so that you have to farm 3 items instead of 1-2 with even less drop sources to choose from.
Legendaries don't even need explanation.
Of course, I do realise that for Hardkore R4id0rz living in their moms' basements both sick grinds can be very enjoyable and might even give them back some of the lost speshulness the poor snowflakes crave so much.

[Deleted]

My personal opinion is that the Artifacts idea is a good idea, it gave depth to the classes.
The only thing that bug me is that it will cease to exist at the end of the expansion and it will be merged/substituted with another idea that will cease to exist at the end of the next expansion... what i am trying to say is that i would like continuity in this god forsaken game.. that´s all. good thing were the upgrading of the garrison idea on the order hall... that ( i dunno for sure) will cease to exist with the next exp...

I mean blizzard did a terrific job with the classes identity with Legion, and i hope atleast the order halls will be mantained so we can move on with another very good idea like sub races etc.. but this is just my opinion and my hopes.

For the Legendaries i actually like the system even if i had the luck to drop only 1 leg for my main ( luckily) character.. out of 12 char that i got totally...i had some joy atleast

The real problem with wow is that blizzard really need to pull the E-Brake on the epic drops... because for me being full epic at 2 week after the launch is the most unrewarding thing EVER . I would like to have the emotion back when i was in vanilla, the moment when the fantastic Nemesis Head dropped ... i want that back Ion!!

sorry for the english..

Greetings guys.

[Jamie081]

Artifacts are one of the best additions to the game they've done. I dislike the legendary system, and it's funny how many complain about it when so many fucking nerds wanted it to 'feel speshul' with their RNG drops instead of welfare legendaries.

[barackohmama]

Nope. I like both. It's fun to get a legendary and it's fun to level your artifact weapon if you have to respec. I wish they added some more depth to artifacts though so you had to choose a path and not only fill the artifact with points like everyone else.

Having choices and perks is not a bad thing. Unless you play on a top 10 world level it won't matter if you have suboptimal legendaries. And if you do you probably have them all anyway. I play casually on my warrior and I have all dps legendaries and only miss two prot ones.

[Dug]

I like artifacts and legendary system. If the legendary system carries over into next xpac they should just make them utility though imo and a bit more rare just to get all the elitists and wannabes to quit crying

[Temp name]

I really dislike the legendary system, and the infinite/borderline infinite grind of AP, but artifacts as a whole I rather like

[Deleted]

You should really check around how the legendaries work for other classes before writing something this stupid. For some it can be up to 25% performance difference with BIS legendaries.

10% 25% 100%...... this matters only for someone who want to push mythic with a fast progress.... and that's a tiny percent of WoW player.. and again if i want to do mythic i know that i have to put some extra effort for it.. maybe it's more in this expac but again, mythic raiding is a niche. You can easily clear Normal and Heroic with 2 random legendary.

Again i totally agree that Blizzard cuold have handled the OS legendary situation a lot better (put a token, put a gold price to change legendary spec i don't know).

[Deleted]

No, next!

PS: Legendaries and traits don't give you hands. Seriously, every time I see a post with someone blaming on legendaries, I see an excuse to be mediocre because "blizz hates you and it gives you a bad legendary". SURPIRSE there are not bad legendaries, they are all far superior to any epic, even the shittiest. Also, AK is for something, you can get several traits in off-specs with 1 AP token or 2. Anyways, the legendaries may not be your spec, but is a 970 piece of gear, you only lose the effect and for some legs only. Artifact appearances and how to obtain them is one of the best, if not the best thing Blizz has done ever related to gear. They do encourage you to do lots of diferent content (campaign, pve, pvp, random stuff, challenges, etc) and (most of them) are amazingly designed.

Imagine you're pushing for Mythic progression and there are two holy priests in the group, both of similar skill and gear level (item level). One holy priest has the cloak, X'anshi, Shroud of Archbishop Benedictus, the other has Phyrix's Embrace (the ring). Guess which one is automatically extremely more valuable for progression. One was lucky enough that the cloak dropped. The other wasn't.

The one who's not so lucky runs all normal and LFR raids every week in hopes it will drop. He has seen priests who are half-AFK in the raid (90k HPS in ToS) get the cloak.

Yeah, this legendary system was a mistake. No legendary should be that powerful.

[Deleted]

Simple example: came back recently to the game and found out that I don't like Frost anymore and want to play Unholy again.

Realized I don't have ANY unholy legendary and Apocalypse is still level 34, so...

...yeah.

Bait thread? Anyhow, no its not a fail, you just have to play the game.

Also, whining about having your weapon at level 34? guess what, it only takes a couple of WQ to get it up towards 45+. Stop whining and do some content for the reward, i bet you would whine with the old system aswell and said that "oh i quit a couple of months ago and a new raid came, now im undergeared... its unfair!"