Can we all agree that artifacts and legendaries were a mistake?

[AbalDarkwind]

Artifacts are great. They solve the issue of having to wait on a good weapon drop before you become effective, and they, essentially, act as Alternate Advancement. I'm not even sure why there's a complaint that they "never" end. Once you get Concordance, they're, essentially, finished. All AP into Concordance after the first point are very minor bonuses and, frankly, a good compromise between "never" ending and being completely finished. Now, we have the Netherlight Crucible coming in 7.3, but that will, essentially, be finished in a couple of months when we have AK50 and hitting Artifact Level 75 isn't the insurmountable climb it currently is.

TL;DR: I disagree about Artifacts, and I hope we get new Artifacts next expansion.

Legendaries being entirely RNG was a mistake, though. Some specs rely heavily on specific Legendaries that make the current system outrageously frustrating, and that's to say nothing of switching specs or, worse, classes. Furthermore, throughput Legendaries are, clearly, much more valued than utility Legendaries, and that's a serious design flaw.

I'm fine with us working towards getting multiple Legendaries in future expansions, but they should be built like many of the old school Legendaries. A grind with a known reward at the end is a superior system then just relying entirely on luck (And the Relinquished "targeting" is rubbish).

[Coffeh]

Artifacts are ridiculous in an mmorpg. This one-of-a-kind, epic item that I have...and that guy over there has. And those guys, and those million other players. It is the result of cramming a single-player experience into an mmo.

Legendaries are a massive failure in that Blizzard somehow made acquiring a legendary item a disappointment.

I miss when gear quality mattered. I never had a problem being in a smattering of quest greens and blues. When I got an epic it was...epic. A legendary took a massive undertaking...or good deal of luck. Now everything is just handed on a silver, er legendary platter. So bad.

[smokii]

nope, we cannot all agree

was quite happy with the artifact/legendary system this time round. it may not be perfect, but then, it's still one of the better implementations.

whatever happens next expansion, i hope it's a step forward not a step backwards.


edit: it would also appear that how many classes you play, how many specs you play and how flexible you are in your playstyle will affect your opinion. i'm a ret paladin, not intending to change if nerfed or buffed, will always be a pala. so will always get gear towards that spec and playstyle. if i wanted to flip flop between ret/prot, or play 3 separate classes and have them all pimped out, i can see that causing burn out issues.

but then that's another thing that only really came about due to content drought. no more content to consume, do it on another class. alt raids never used to be a thing in the early days, everyone had a maxed out main, alts were mostly profession/bank mules. nowadays it's max out everything, run progress on all of them and switch out classes to min/max every fight. which isn't really a healthy playstyle, which the legendary and relic system does not work well with - it's much more of a heavy focus world first guild thing. whereas if you're focused on one main and having fun, you wont really see the issue. (other than if you're only getting the shitty legendaries and feel you need to grind in order to get the better ones) but again, thats playstyle preferences that differ from player to player.

it's hard to please everyone, especially in a game with millions of players.

they could've made the artifact weapon system more alt/offspec friendly though.

[peuserejo]

The legendary system is stupid, and I probably wont play the next expansion if it stays the way it is now. The artifact grind is fine imo.

[Deleted]

Mostly because doing raids is actually fun and interesting, not just steamrolling through a braindead easy quests over and over

And you can only do each raid once per week.

nice try though


The amount of AP you get from M+ is pitiful compared to world quests


Step back and.....do nothing. Great game design.

I don't know how to quote multiple times so I'll just put 1, 2, and 3 in front of my points.

1. But you're still grinding, and what happens when raids are on farm, when you know the tactics and breeze through them like you do world quests, are they still interesting then? But I digress, you consider raids fun and interesting, and you consider world quests brainless and boring, but they're clearly not boring enough not to do them, otherwise you'd get your artifact power from other activities.

Also keep in mind that you don't speak for WoW's entire playerbase, some enjoy world quests and having stuff to do, put on some music, a podcast, talk to friends if you have any, gather some packs and AOE them down, you'll be done in no time.

2. But you CAN get artifact power through mythic+, LFR, and LFD, that's the point, there are alternatives to world quests, you just don't like the alternatives because they're sub optimal, but if you despised world quests that much you would get your artifact power through those, LFR alone gives 216 million artifact power a week, LFD gives 112 million artifact power a week, and that's not counting drops from bosses, you'll be fine.

3. No, step back and do 5 world quests a day if they're that bad instead of 15, you'll max out your artifact weapon eventually, especially with the amount of artifact knowledge you can get in very little time. By the end you're only going to be putting points into the infinite trait, getting a 1% damage increase everytime, and unless you're a mythic raider what difference does that make.

You're creating a problem where there is none.

4. If actually playing the game is so awful, perhaps World of Warcraft just isn't for you.

[Deleted]

Ehhhhhh

No.

[shadowmatrix]

Simple example: came back recently to the game and found out that I don't like Frost anymore and want to play Unholy again.

Realized I don't have ANY unholy legendary and Apocalypse is still level 34, so...

...yeah.

Simple example: came back recently and found out I no longer like feral druid and want to play boomkin again.

Realized I don't have any caster gear and very little gold.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

[Baine]

I like both artefacts and legendaries.

[Malix Farwin]

I don't think Artifacts Weapons were a mistake, in fact, they were a god send for people who like to focus on 1 spec. Legendaries on the other hand were a mistake(they way they did them this expac).

[Dartz1979]

I like the current system in place and im sure many people agree some mainly hardcore players and the classic legacy starved people want it to be like how it was then well they need to accept a reality check its never happening so move on.

[Malix Farwin]

You should really check around how the legendaries work for other classes before writing something this stupid. For some it can be up to 25% performance difference with BIS legendaries.

This isnt 7.0/7.1, they gutted all the legendaries with a gap that wide.

[Aoyi]

As of login today, you'll get AP at a 16,000,000% multiplier. If you only have frost legendaries, you'll get unholy ones very quickly. If you have cross-spec legendaries, then just use those. Play what you want to play. I don't have a single spec specific ELE legendary, but when I want to play ELE on a boss or two, I have no issues switching from ENH.

[Polarthief]

- Artifacts: I rather kinda liked them. Artifact Power was the mistake here.
- Legendaries: I like them too but NOT how unbalanced and RNG they were. Either making them utility only (non-role enhancing) or letting you target select legendaries like they fucking said at Blizzcon and I would have loved the system just fine.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Artifacts are amazing. They originally served as an additional talent tree, something everyone wanted. Then eventually became an endless source of upgrade potential. Now they stand as a major building block of 7.3 and the relic system expansion is one of the best things that could have happened.
Thanks to Artifact Power there is now ALWAYS a reason to do any content Legion has to offer as you always get some small progress.
On top of that, the lore was amazing with most of them. Very unique and well developed idea from Blizzard that took a lot of effort. Say what you will, but those questlines were more content alone than all of WoD.

The legendary on the other hand has two dramatic flaws: there are ones that are an incredible increase to player power and ones that are just utility based. They should have never made any directly effect core DPS spells.
Number two is that they STILL are quite a bother to get even with the Netherdisruptor (rip) and you still can't choose which one you want.
This is particularly annoying on Alts, but probably a direct response to all the idiots who said they wanted Classic back.

Now no matter what its nearly impossible to fully maximize multiple toons. Sure its easy to get them geared, but to keep 4+ toons having 62 traits and all BIS legendaries seems mind-breaking.

I love the systems as they are, but they both kind of suck for alts. Not enough to ever say they were a mistake.
If they fixed those two problems with Legendaries I would say they were one of the best additions to the game.

[Deleted]

Imagine you're pushing for Mythic progression and there are two holy priests in the group, both of similar skill and gear level (item level). One holy priest has the cloak, X'anshi, Shroud of Archbishop Benedictus, the other has Phyrix's Embrace (the ring). Guess which one is automatically extremely more valuable for progression. One was lucky enough that the cloak dropped. The other wasn't.

The one who's not so lucky runs all normal and LFR raids every week in hopes it will drop. He has seen priests who are half-AFK in the raid (90k HPS in ToS) get the cloak.

Yeah, this legendary system was a mistake. No legendary should be that powerful.

You said it, "Imagine your are pushing Mythic progression", not even 1 of 20 cryposts about legs come from a Mythic raider. And even less from Mythic raiders who have another person in their roster with the same class/spec and that difference in legendaries. Is that type of thing that is not a real problem but people cry so much that is always a topic, like flying in Argus or whatever is the next thing to bitch about. Not that I like the leg system but is not something that stops anyone.

[Nnyco]

no, reaching 52 right now is super easy, legendarys are abit rng however people clearly overvalue them, but it easier to blame "lack" of legendary rather than accept that you did shit

[Soon-TM]

I'm ok with artifacts, although I think their talent trees should be tied to the PC itself, not to the weapon. But legendaries are horribly out of place imho, they belong to Diablo and should stay there.

[flan1337]

I dislike Leggos but am okay with Artifacts. I kinda hope they bring over the AP system in some way.

[TOM_RUS]

I agree. There's no place for that kind of grinding in WoW.

[Bubleheart]

Artifacts - Cool idea with one of the worst grinds in this game to date. AP was cool and then you get to the insurmountable mountain it really is and it becomes terrible. Before today, who actually still cared about AP once you had Concordance? You just got some, clicked the thing in your bag, and really did not care. I actually preferred when you could max out an artifact. I could relax and do other things while not feeling like I am wasting time/effort on something I should not be.

I like how artifacts gave you perks and new abilities. Just cut down on the grind and you got yourself a keeper system right there. 7.2 with Concordance was kind of a step in the right direction, but not really considering how AP ended up mattering to unlock crucible stuff. Granted it will be an easier catch-up but I have always felt that when something needs to be explained or balanced with a 400,000,000% of something, you may have not tuned it right to begin with.

Legendaries - Not a fan. With there being optimal ones, it just feels shitty to be in a raid with someone who has the good stuff and you are just plodding along trying to do what they do but just cannot. I think ones like Prydaz are well designed (maybe a little too far overboard), but still gives a good effect that isn't world ending. If everyone is getting these from world drops, it should be utility stuff. Make it so you can play a different style based on what you have. If you have Prydaz, you can play a bit riskier to your benefit if you are good enough OR you can just play it safe and 95% of the time never die. That is an actual choice with some skill to it. I would like to see more of that.

If they plan to ever do legendaries you build again, then those can be DPS ones as everyone can push for them without randomness (besides shard/fragment/etc drops) affecting them to much.