1. #9941
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Just scale everything and we have no issues. I mean leveling will still be very easy but the 60 or 70 "old" zones still have a point. I just wish they would introduce some kind of alternative leveling system (Elder Scrolls Online has something similar) or an account wide "legacy" leveling where you can unlock mounts, pets, and fluff stuff (so that leveling at max level still makes sense).
    It's exactly the reverse - just don't scale anything and we have no issues.

    It's scaling (squish) that introduced many issues. Example issue: a piece of gear from a BC quest is better than a piece of gear from a WotLK instance, and I am not talking about some extreme pair, this happens all the effing time because the differences in stat budgets are so miniscule, thanks to the stupid squish. I can give twenty more examples from pre-max-level, many of them worse. The legacy power buff which helps in some places introduces issues of its own in other places, it's just fix on top of fix on top of fix and they all break something new, just slightly differently.

    Things worked way better before the squish at least if we are talking about pre-max-level. They did the squish for the sole reason of running into the 32-bit limit. They are no longer subject to this limit, so let's stop breaking things for no reason. They should concentrate on not introducing too much of a power staircase at max-level. This is easily done with having resetting staircases (items that drop in raid X grow in power in that raid X, outside of that raid X they only grow up to a very limited ceiling, next raid starts where it wants to start and every raid goes as high as it wants to go, no issues, power multiplication reduced dramatically - a factor of 3-4x from what we have now easily).

  2. #9942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    For the long run a world scaling technology would be the best for the game.
    No scaling everywhere would be BAD for this game cause there would be no more growing in power.....

    Especially since Blizzard have shown how bad there scaling was when you dinged from 109 to 110....

  3. #9943
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    No scaling everywhere would be BAD for this game cause there would be no more growing in power.....
    Mobs scaled from 1 to 110 are still weaker than 110 mobs but no onehit anymore. Growing in power is always there, even in Legion with its scaling.
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  4. #9944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I'm not talking about an alternative way of getting to the max level but a completely new system with levels (ESO Champion System, SWTOR Legacy). As soon as you reach max level your XP benefit your alternative system leveling you up there, starting at 1 with max level being 20 in Legion, 25 in the next expansion etc. On each level you unlock transmog items, pets, mounts or whatever. And every 5th level you get something "big". Could be tied to heirloom as well and look something like this:

    1: get heirloom 1, 2, 3
    2: unlock all flying routes on Azeroth
    3: reduce hearthstone CD
    4:
    5: get a 2 player mount
    6:
    ...
    10: get the transmog set 1, 2, 3
    ...
    20: Unlock flying in Legion

    You could tie all the flying achievements to this alternative system (which is account wide) or reputation or whatever. Would solve many issues we have in game right now.
    The thing is, the way WoW works (and many players like it) you need new levels in order to get a power increase between expansions and start off everyone at max level on a clean slate.

    If it was as you said, a lot of people wouldn't level at all because it wouldn't give them a power increase in raids/dungeons. In my opinion Artifacts are a pretty good way of max level progression, since if you wanted to you could grind the 1st level of Conc in a week or so and then just let it accumulate by doing different stuff, or from the start just not worry about it and in a month or two have Conc (I have it on 6 chars atm by just doing daily emissary with a couple more almost there). Artifacts and AP are at a much better place right now than in the beginning of Legion, and it will be even better in 7.3 when AK upgrades become a passive region wide weekly upgrade.
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  5. #9945
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Have you guys been talking about how Ion said in an interview to expect some small patches after Antorus?

    I'm insanely dissapointed. Why can't they get their shit together and actually release something on time for once?

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...r-Antorus-quot

    Incoming content drought which they will claim wasn't a drought because of these "minor patches" with an hours worth of content.
    Well, that's Blizzard we are talking about here.

    Yes, we are going to have a big drought, again. Yes, they will try to say that we don't have it. Stretching some quest across half a year or strategically putting a mini-patch with, I don't know, a couple of items and a tiny scenario borrowed from the opening event of the next expansion into the middle of the drought to try and pretend that two halves of a drought are much-much better than a single uninterrupted drought, etc. I am not surprised in the least, that's what I thought they would do. (Yes, this is bad. No, I am not playing much these days. Just checking from time to time for news.)

  6. #9946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Mobs scaled from 1 to 110 are still weaker than 110 mobs but no onehit anymore. Growing in power is always there, even in Legion with its scaling.
    I would like it if the limited the scaling to expansions:
    1-60 scaling in EK and Kalimdor (without Cata zone)
    60-70 in Outland
    70-80 northrend
    80-85 Cata zones
    85-90 Pandaria
    90-100 WoD

    Would make mores sense to do it that way.
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  7. #9947
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Mobs scaled from 1 to 110 are still weaker than 110 mobs but no onehit anymore. Growing in power is always there, even in Legion with its scaling.
    Scaling is completely unintuitive and completely unnecessary. I am sorry, but it was a stupid idea to scale mobs up to player level.

    What for - to get the fights to the "expected range of 12 seconds per mob"??? Why????? To allow time for spells to hit the mob?? (That's what they said.) What kind of BS explanation is that? Why is that important? Where are the specifics? If the specifics are that some specs have issues getting kills because they lack instants and other specs just kill all their mobs, solve this in other ways. Scaling mobs up in order to solve this small and isolated issue just breaks other things, the supposed cure is much worse than the disease.
    Last edited by rda; 2017-08-29 at 12:02 PM.

  8. #9948
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Well, that's Blizzard we are talking about here.

    Yes, we are going to have a big drought, again. Yes, they will try to say that we don't have it. Stretching some quest across half a year or strategically putting a mini-patch with, I don't know, a couple of items and a tiny scenario borrowed from the opening event of the next expansion into the middle of the drought to try and pretend that two halves of a drought are much-much better than a single uninterrupted drought, etc. I am not surprised in the least, that's what I thought they would do. (Yes, this is bad. No, I am not playing much these days. Just checking from time to time for news.)
    Would you rather have them release the raid in November and do nothing with Legion till 8.0 (prepatch) content drops in 10-12 months?

    Nobody is arguing that it will make the drought disappear (unless they add a 3 boss raid in march-may) but it will soften the blow a bit if you have something else to do than just go in Antorus and on Argus. Heck, Legion has shown that they didnt forget about past storylines, so it might mean that the small patches and weekly questlines have significant lore impact and character progression.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    Scaling is completely unintuitive and completely unnecessary. I am sorry, but it was a stupid idea to scale mobs up to player level.

    What for - to get the fights to the "expected range of 12 seconds per mob"??? Why????? To allow time for spells to hit the mob?? (That's what they said.) What kind of BS explanation is that? Why is that important? Where are the specifics? If the specifics are that some specs have issues getting kills because they lack instants and other specs just kill all their mobs, solve this in other ways. Scaling mobs up in order to solve this small and isolated issue just breaks other things, the supposed cure is much worse than the disease.
    Scaling was introduced so that we wouldn't have only 1 zone with max level content at launch and never go back to leveling zones except certain small areas. Scaling even brought us to the old world for some questlines. So it worked pretty well.
    And the 12 second thing is only true when you hit max level, a couple hours into 110 and all my alts are killing mobs in 4-6 seconds.
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  9. #9949
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Would you rather have them release the raid in November and do nothing with Legion till 8.0 (prepatch) content drops in 10-12 months?

    Nobody is arguing that it will make the drought disappear (unless they add a 3 boss raid in march-may) but it will soften the blow a bit if you have something else to do than just go in Antorus and on Argus. Heck, Legion has shown that they didnt forget about past storylines, so it might mean that the small patches and weekly questlines have significant lore impact and character progression.
    That's like asking: would you rather give me $500 right now or $400 now and $200 tomorrow - choose fast.

    The choice you are suggesting is a false dichotomy.

    If we are talking about what I would like to see them do, it is this: stop being lazy, uncreative and incapable, get people who can actually lead the devs, get back to developing WoW for real, and pump out more and new content, escaping the stupid idea that we can only have very few things now or very few things later, but it's always very few things per year and please pay us $15 per month plus boxes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    Scaling was introduced so that we wouldn't have only 1 zone with max level content at launch and never go back to leveling zones except certain small areas. Scaling even brought us to the old world for some questlines. So it worked pretty well.
    And the 12 second thing is only true when you hit max level, a couple hours into 110 and all my alts are killing mobs in 4-6 seconds.
    I disagree that it worked "pretty well". You are simply postulating that it worked "pretty well" and I am not seeing it, sorry. I am only seeing some rolled eyes (why does this mob have so much hp??? oh, I leveled up) and after a bit of time indifference (mobs are trivial again).

  10. #9950
    Quote Originally Posted by Feali View Post
    What's everyone's fascination with numbers?

  11. #9951
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    That's like asking: would you rather give me $500 right now or $400 now and $200 tomorrow - choose fast.

    The choice you are suggesting is a false dichotomy.

    If we are talking about what I would like to see them do, it is this: stop being lazy, uncreative and incapable, get people who can actually lead the devs, get back to developing WoW for real, and pump out more and new content, escaping the stupid idea that we can only have very few things now or very few things later, but it's always very few things per year and please pay us $15 per month plus boxes.
    Every expansion has had a content drought (some shorter, some longer all be it), but Legion is the first (second if you count the small WotLK raid after ICC) that'll try and soften it. They even stated in interviews early in Legion's lifecycle that they are going to attempt a patch cycle so that the drought is less noticeable. So far they seem to be sticking to the plan. So one could assume that because they didn't have to delay any of the patch releases (timegating quests is something else) and managed to keep every raid up for the 4-5 months they stated they wanted to (with last tier being 2-3 months longer) one could assume that their original plan for Legion patches is still going to happen and the drought is going to be less noticeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    I disagree that it worked "pretty well". You are simply postulating that it worked "pretty well" and I am not seeing it, sorry. I am only seeing some rolled eyes (why does this mob have so much hp??? oh, I leveled up) and after a bit of time indifference (mobs are trivial again).
    To be honest, I never noticed the HP bump, mostly since it didn't happen when you level, but when you're 40-60% in a level. And so far I haven't seen anyone complaining about Legion being a Dalaran sitting simulator like WotLK unless it was a raid night. Part of the reason for that is because people have 6 (soon 9 with Argus) zones to do relevant stuff in and scaling tech allowed them to keep dungeons relevant throughout the whole expansion. If you are having problems with mob HP while leveling you should probably learn your class a bit. Since I done it on all 12 and no problems.
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  12. #9952
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    So one could assume that because they didn't have to delay any of the patch releases (timegating quests is something else) and ...
    Why is timegating quests and other things "something else"? It's just another way to deliver few bits of content over a long time.

    It's like you sell someone a sandwich with peanut butter, they complain that it has only a little butter at the end of the sandwich, and you go ahead and spread that butter over all of the sandwich and proclaim "problem fixed!". No, it is not fixed, the main problem is that there is too little butter. The problem of butter being spread unevenly is not even a problem if you ask players, it is a problem invented by Blizzard developers (or marketers, really) trying to provide an illusion of making things better without spending a iota of extra effort. You complain about a drought, they tell you "a-ha, we know where you are coming from, we have more than enough content, it's just delivered unevenly" and before you can say anything they exclaim "we'll fix it!" and run away.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadochi View Post
    And so far I haven't seen anyone complaining about Legion being a Dalaran sitting simulator like WotLK unless it was a raid night. Part of the reason for that is because people have 6 (soon 9 with Argus) zones to do relevant stuff in and scaling tech allowed them to keep dungeons relevant throughout the whole expansion.
    And another part of the reason is that there are 3x less people to hear complaints about than in WotLK and most of them are diehards who know that complaining is pointless and just play when they want and how they want, knowing that yes, they are in a dying game that is not going to get better, but they still have this habit of playing it and will perhaps log in once in a while to the very end.

    A typical WoW player of today (a) plays 90% of the time solo and the rest in random groups, (b) does not want any obligations, is disillusioned about the game, has plenty of beef with Blizzard and has tons of friends who played WoW and hated it and quit, and (c) is still playing WoW basically they got a habit of playing some MMO and are too lazy to switch to another game / there is no other game to switch to. Basically, the choice for them is between playing WoW and not playing anything. For now they are choosing to play WoW. Obviously, silently, because complaining is pointless and everything is pointless.

    PS: Look at this forum. The traffic is maybe a quarter of what it was before. Everything that has to deal with WoW is reducing.
    Last edited by rda; 2017-08-29 at 12:41 PM.

  13. #9953
    7.3 is technically live now. The countdown to 7.3.5 PTR begins!

  14. #9954
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    7.3 is technically live now. The countdown to 7.3.5 PTR begins!
    OMG expansion announcement soon™
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  15. #9955
    Would you guys be satisfied if the next expansion was titled: World of Warcraft: Jaina
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  16. #9956
    How long until realms with patch 7.3 is up in the US?

  17. #9957
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Would you guys be satisfied if the next expansion was titled: World of Warcraft: Jaina
    Only if Theramore gets rebuilt into the alliance capital. Lorewise that city was more important than some other cities added just so a race had a capital.
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  18. #9958
    Quote Originally Posted by Explicit Teemo Nudes View Post
    How long until realms with patch 7.3 is up in the US?
    Iirc 3PM PDT.
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  19. #9959
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlamin View Post
    7.3 is technically live now. The countdown to 7.3.5 PTR begins!
    Next week for sure

  20. #9960
    Quote Originally Posted by Leksa View Post
    Next week for sure
    Probably 7th or 12th if they follow the rule.
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