The Fate of Xe'ra (Spoilers)

[Well]

You're describing the actions of zealots who have lost their mind completely and fully to the light, that have given themselves completely to it. As far as I can tell, Velen is still himself. Turalyon is still himself. Their minds can be bent and persuaded by the Light if they let it in (similar to the void, actually). They aren't Cho'gall, Deathwing or Garrosh levels of insane, clearly.

But I personally think what shook Velen was exactly why Xe'ra was forcing herself on Illidan. To him, the Light had never done that before. Why wouldn't it freak Velen out to see his best friend be taken in by the religion he had followed his whole life, by force? Especially considering he's started to have doubts about said religion?

Frankly if I were Velen, I'd be asking Xe'ra why she is forcing her will on another, as that is not "the path of the light".

If I were Velen, I would immediately silence Illidan and bind him instantly, letting him be consumed in the Light of my freaking GOD, I have right in front of me, fully confirming my faith in the prophecy she's going on about and reconfirming that my potential shadow of a doubt, was exactly that: just a shadow, cast away by the Light.

[Wildmoon]

How is the high-ups of light forcing their will onto and/or corrupting people in their own way any better? Just because you prefer the color?

You miss the point.-_-" We don't have to choose either of them.

[Blamblam41]

You know, I joked the other day on discord that the supposed various races of the Army of Light could have become the lightforged draenei, mindlessly obedient to Xe'ra.

What if it's true? What if Xe'ra sees them as her perfect race and forcefully transformed a bunch of races? Maybe Turalyon was on a way to become one, he just hadn't yet because Xe'ra wanted him human to gain a trust of Azeroth...

Would be truly horrifying.

Could this Army of Light be a futures enemy?

Makes one think of Xal'atath's quote:

that came before the draenei?** No? <short chuckle>
Maybe these that came before also became draenei?

I think she is referring to the Eredar, because "Draenei" didn't become that until Velen renamed them.

[Well]

Did you really type this shit, in a beleavers eyes forcing your view point upon somebody is a good thing rly??

Do I really need to bring into this discussion what every religion has done historically to the world for you to get my point? We even have modern extreme examples of it. And this is not even us actually seeing with our own eyes what we believe in, not having a confirmation for faith and Velen more than clearly does, and he is 10k years old.

[thilicen]

You miss the point.-_-" We don't have to choose either of them.

Well one half is out to fuck up our entire planet so we kind of do.

[Aucald]

oh my...i want him killing her as my signature, can anyone create it for me?

Probably too large for a signature:

[Florena]

Xera is not the light in and of itself. And Velen saw Xera doing something that goes agaunst how the draenei see the Light. And there wasn't THAT much time between Illidan breaking free and him nuking Xera.

[Deleted]

Do I really need to bring into this discussion what every religion has done historically to the world for you to get my point?

Plz dont because my list would be endless of what harm it brought.

[Deleted]

Bro, honestly... just no. As I said before:

Except Velen lost his faith when his son died. Velen had character progression during Legion.

Xe'ra was doing to Illidan exactly what Sargeras and the Eredar tried to do with him, forcing to accept a truth. Velen follows the Light out of believe, not zealotry.

[Leyre]

I am sorry for quoting everyone in this thread, I am on a rampage.

But this does not make sense, honestly: he didn't even know his supposed son. Never met him. Never knew him. Never had relations with him. He is not his son.

I can give you that he might be starting to see more of the spider's web he's on, but even that does not break faith. Faith is illogical, faith is blind. Even when people are contradicted with pure facts & mathematical logic, they reject that for years and even until they die, having faith in what they always did. ESPECIALLY in the case of Velen: he cannot fucking lose his faith. Even if Xe'ra turned him into some killing machine spewing Void Bolts, surrendering to Madness (cough), having his senses and personality intact and understanding that he is killing even innocents: it would still be...

...for the Light!

Are you being retard on purpose? you better not be

Infracted.

[Well]

I don't think Illidan's words was what decisively changed Velen it was one of many cracks. Anduin had already suggested that Velen trusted his light's vision too much before. Xe'ra trying to force Illidan into holy Illidan was the last straw.

I can see Velen being swayed by Anduin, but that's only his visions. Has nothing to do with his actual faith to the Light.

[Wildmoon]

Well one half is out to fuck up our entire planet so we kind of do.

No, we don't. By choosing I mean choosing to be subservient to the will of the void lords and the naaru. You are missing the point.

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I can see Velen being swayed by Anduin, but that's only his visions. Has nothing to do with his actual faith to the Light.

His visions were granted by the light or may even be the naaru.

[Keydiam]

The light is not a villian though. Xe'ra does not equate the light. The light as power wielded by someone like Anduin would turn out pretty well.

But, the Naaru are the living incarnations of the Light. So what now? All paladins are huge dicks and shouldn't exist? Hail the Void/Fel/all other dark magic?

[Deleted]

That's not entirely true. He began starting to have doubts with the death of his son. Why would the Light grant him a vision of his dead son when he was born? Why would the Light let him forget it until his son came to Azeroth and died?

Velen is growing a brain, not losing his faith.

The visions are from Velen, not the Light. Even the Naaru used Velen for his visions.

[Wildmoon]

But, the Naaru are the living incarnations of the Light. So what now? All paladins are huge dicks and shouldn't exist? Hail the Void/Fel/all other dark magic?

Ragnaros was living manifestation of fire element. I don't see how shamans must be assholes. You need to separate beings from forces.

[Blamblam41]

If I were Velen, I would immediately silence Illidan and bind him instantly, letting him be consumed in the Light of my freaking GOD, I have right in front of me, fully confirming my faith in the prophecy she's going on about and reconfirming that my potential shadow of a doubt, was exactly that: just a shadow, cast away by the Light.

Again, you act as if Velen is some light-crazed zealot. He isn't. He's been persuaded his entire life by the Light. Toss into the fact that he's been having more than just "shadows" of doubt. Even in the WoWpedia page it states that the Draenei wished to honor the Naaru by adhering to their altruistic ideals.

Forcing the Light on Illidan, "forcing" the prophecy to take place is exactly against those basic ideals. Even Velen can see that. Which is why he does nothing. He's confused. He's lived his entire life following the warm, calm, serene light, not the forceful and manipulative "light" Xe'ra was using.

Plus, at this point, I think Illidan power level wise could have killed everyone in that room without even blinking. Self preservation outweighs personal belief, as it always has for the Draenei.

[Well]

His visions were granted by the light or may even be the naaru.

Yes, but that's the point; Velen should not/does not attribute mistakes to the Light, exactly because of his faith. He does not even know that they are granted by the Light or the Naaru, as a fact. Getting visions makes Velen think: "The light protects me, by showing me what potential futures lay ahead". It does not matter how wrong they come off. It's Faith.

[Wildmoon]

Plus, at this point, I think Illidan power level wise could have killed everyone in that room without even blinking. Self preservation outweighs personal belief, as it always has for the Draenei.

Velen is pretty damn powerful. He just chose to do nothing.

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Yes, but that's the point; Velen should not/does not attribute mistakes to the Light, exactly because of his faith. He does not even know that they are granted by the Light or the Naaru, as a fact. Getting visions makes Velen think: "The light protects me, by showing me what potential futures lay ahead". It does not matter how wrong they come off. It's Faith.

You are assuming that faith is unshakable.

[huth]

Your GOD is encircling someone with fucking LIGHT and starts PHYSICALLY blessing them. You can CLEARLY see his FEL (as in freaking demonic) magic leaving his body, infused with Light. Do people understand how that seems to a believer's eyes? Imagine your most faithful friend having this experience.

Xe'ra is actively acting against what Velen believes the Light stands for. He's not a blind believer, a raging zealot.

Xe'ra also isn't a god. Just a Naaru. Velen is very much aware that Naaru aren't anywhere close to gods.

[Deleted]

Yes, but that's the point; Velen should not/does not attribute mistakes to the Light, exactly because of his faith. He does not even know that they are granted by the Light or the Naaru, as a fact. Getting visions makes Velen think: "The light protects me, by showing me what potential futures lay ahead". It does not matter how wrong they come off. It's Faith.

Divinius says: We came as soon as we were able! Thank the Light that you are safe, prophet!
Prophet Velen says: I am neither prophet nor pawn. Not any longer.