is Feral really that bad?

[RayenDark]

TBH my biggest question about Feral is why in the hell did they put its challenge skin on the Agatha list? Putting a Bleed-based ST spec on an AoE fight is just a cruel joke and makes the completionist in me upset that I won't complete it prior to 7.3

o.0; I completed that a 902 ilvl ( ~30 attempts) the fight really isn't that bad if you're prioritizing the right targets. We're good at bleed cleave which is a good part of that fight. I really don't see how people struggle with the challenge.

[-aiko-]

o.0; I completed that a 902 ilvl ( ~30 attempts) the fight really isn't that bad if you're prioritizing the right targets. We're good at bleed cleave which is a good part of that fight. I really don't see how people struggle with the challenge.

I completed it at a similar item level (899) with more attempts than you, but ~30 attempts is a lot compared to other Agatha challenge specs. I mean with my UH DK alt I almost one shot it (got it on try 2).

The Feral challenge can be really shitty and requires near perfect gameplay if you don't overgear it. IMO it's one of the harder ones.

[cparle87]

TBH my biggest question about Feral is why in the hell did they put its challenge skin on the Agatha list? Putting a Bleed-based ST spec on an AoE fight is just a cruel joke and makes the completionist in me upset that I won't complete it prior to 7.3

Preaching to the choir, man. My boom skin was super easy. 2-shotted it. First wipe was I did what everyone did with KJ's armageddon the first week; stood in it then ran out before it went off = splat. Went to try kitty's (my ocd makes me want to get them in alphabetical order). And I could not for the life of me keep up with those imps. I read the guides, I used consumables, I have all the legendaries. And I just could not keep up with the adds. Eventually it would just pile up (immune adds while casting the aoe plus the dps imps that hurt more the longer they're up.)

[-aiko-]

Unfortunately Preach's guide was pretty damn bad and people are better off spending a few minutes reading the Wowhead/Icy Veins guides if they want an "easy" intro to the spec(otherwise Xan's guide is easily the best)

/shrug It wasn't Olfis, at least.
I only skimmed it (30m? I ain't got time for that) but it seemed decent enough and I liked how he gave a nice shout out to the Feral community.

[Deleted]

o.0; I completed that a 902 ilvl ( ~30 attempts) the fight really isn't that bad if you're prioritizing the right targets. We're good at bleed cleave which is a good part of that fight. I really don't see how people struggle with the challenge.

Let me guess, you had Luffa? That legendary is worth like 10-15 item levels at least in that challenge boss.

[Tradu]

"Feral is better at soaking than DH and is the 2nd best leather DPS after rogues, 3rd best melee overall(behind rogue and warrior)"

Um...

DH can soak every 2 minutes, Feral can soak twice and then every 2 minutes(or every 30 seconds for smaller things).

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Let me guess, you had Luffa? That legendary is worth like 10-15 item levels at least in that challenge boss.

Do people still overestimate Luffas that much? Yes, it's probably the best legendary for it, but it's by no means THAT powerful. The majority of your add damage will be Brutal Slash + Rake regardless. Every single legendary has its uses on Agatha, you might just have to change how you play it.

[RayenDark]

Let me guess, you had Luffa? That legendary is worth like 10-15 item levels at least in that challenge boss.

No I did not have Luffas. I used Belt and Prydaz. Nor did I have Concordance or 4/4 in the new thrash talent, I might have had 3 max.

[kooz]

feral should be more rewarding for playing it well, and it's not been the case for quite a long time.

[exochaft]

o.0; I completed that a 902 ilvl ( ~30 attempts) the fight really isn't that bad if you're prioritizing the right targets. We're good at bleed cleave which is a good part of that fight. I really don't see how people struggle with the challenge.

Some of it can be a L2Play issue, but having decently itemized gear goes a long way. On my main druid, I had to wait until I got the SotA ring because my low crit was killing me (been a while so it's harder to remember, but I was probably around the 915 equipped area when I killed it, 46 points in my weapon, sub-20% crit, really high haste/versa). Just did Agatha on my horde druid with a 903 equipped ilvl, 38 points in my weapon, and no Feral/general spec legendaries... and it was really easy to win. Why? I had 34% crit on my gear (a lot of mastery, too), and I was never resource starved. While averaged out on a patchwerk fight the secondaries don't seem to matter as much, in practice they very much affect the outcome.

Since I tend to prioritize haste/versatility for my bear set (and mastery/haste for moonkin), I tend to have loads of haste and barely any crit. SotA/Chatoyant are a godsend when you have really low crit and a lot of haste, as you have more bad luck protection against unlucky crit streaks. Don't know many other ferals that are rocking 42% haste, but my experiences show that amount of haste really doesn't do much for baseline energy regen and OoC procs.

[Whitepaw]

Some of it can be a L2Play issue, but having decently itemized gear goes a long way. On my main druid, I had to wait until I got the SotA ring because my low crit was killing me (been a while so it's harder to remember, but I was probably around the 915 equipped area when I killed it, 46 points in my weapon, sub-20% crit, really high haste/versa). Just did Agatha on my horde druid with a 903 equipped ilvl, 38 points in my weapon, and no Feral/general spec legendaries... and it was really easy to win. Why? I had 34% crit on my gear (a lot of mastery, too), and I was never resource starved. While averaged out on a patchwerk fight the secondaries don't seem to matter as much, in practice they very much affect the outcome.

Since I tend to prioritize haste/versatility for my bear set (and mastery/haste for moonkin), I tend to have loads of haste and barely any crit. SotA/Chatoyant are a godsend when you have really low crit and a lot of haste, as you have more bad luck protection against unlucky crit streaks. Don't know many other ferals that are rocking 42% haste, but my experiences show that amount of haste really doesn't do much for baseline energy regen and OoC procs.

My 2c on your haste level: spec BrS and enjoy!

[Tareku]

Tareku already mentioned that the top 3 most picked talents would decrease in power. Morg's post was a simple dispute over the 40% damage buff. I provided a link to relevant data that would allow Morg to better understand Tareku.

Blizzard intends to lessen the damage variances between the higher level talents and lower the impact some talents have on the Feral rotation. A suboptimal talent build will be more powerful and the best build will be easier to play. They do not want to alter Feral's maximum damage potential.

This.

Sorry about not explaining myself in detail. But what Ormod said is what I tried to say in the first place.

Anyway, yesterday I downed a couple of bosses on heroic Tomb and I have to say that the rotation is really easy right now (I'm running MoC since I've always hated BT, but was stuck with it since it was the best talent by far).

At warcraftlogs (Yeah I know it's only a day) comparing Goroth pre and post 7,3 I can notice a 6,6% dps increase. While on Mistress (AoE heavy) I can notice a 15% dps increase, which is substantial.

Really happy about the changes atm.

[-aiko-]

I hate the changes, personally. With JW out of the picture and the changes to SR I really don't get that feeling of needing to keep my bleeds snapshotted and powerful. Rip in particular is basically something I no longer need to worry about. Incarnation is also frustrating because I can't seem to spend energy fast enough. I may try Chato, even though it sims significantly lower for my current setup. I'll get used to it, though. Change is just scary =)

[Whitepaw]

I love the changes. Especially the part where they took the time to balance the talents, so if you like the bleed heavy spec, it's still there - and competitive. If you prefer more direct damage, it's also possible and competitive.

If I read the Discord pin correctly, we even have a situation where our relics are closer to each other in damage output - and where the Rake/Rip relics are viable, even in the more direct damage talent builds. So if you decide to change your build, your relics will still be viable.


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[Tareku]

I love the changes. Especially the part where they took the time to balance the talents, so if you like the bleed heavy spec, it's still there - and competitive. If you prefer more direct damage, it's also possible and competitive.

If I read the Discord pin correctly, we even have a situation where our relics are closer to each other in damage output - and where the Rake/Rip relics are viable, even in the more direct damage talent builds. So if you decide to change your build, your relics will still be viable.


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Right, according to This site, Rip, rake relics are still viable even with a direct damage build. Even more, Berserk relics are on par with those, which is great since maiden drops one.

[Whitepaw]

Right, according to This site, Rip, rake relics are still viable even with a direct damage build. Even more, Berserk relics are on par with those, which is great since maiden drops one.

I think the relic system should be more like runes in D3: You should be able to change them without destroying them. You should still need to farm them to get higher item levels, but changing them like runes would be amazing.


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[Tradu]

I think the relic system should be more like runes in D3: You should be able to change them without destroying them. You should still need to farm them to get higher item levels, but changing them like runes would be amazing.


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Yes, that's how it should work, but Blizzard doesn't want to do it for whatever reason.

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I love the changes. Especially the part where they took the time to balance the talents, so if you like the bleed heavy spec, it's still there - and competitive. If you prefer more direct damage, it's also possible and competitive.

If I read the Discord pin correctly, we even have a situation where our relics are closer to each other in damage output - and where the Rake/Rip relics are viable, even in the more direct damage talent builds. So if you decide to change your build, your relics will still be viable.


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Rip/Rake were already very close to eachother in value, and overall relic value also stayed mostly the same between builds(the only notable exception being Swipe actually being useful for BrS builds vs not being useful for other builds)

[Thorim]

I for one just *love* our new rotation...

SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED >.>

If you have to make a mouse-script and potentially get banned just to prevent carpal tunnel, that is god tier bad design.

[Soisoisoi]

I for one just *love* our new rotation...

SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED >.>

If you have to make a mouse-script and potentially get banned just to prevent carpal tunnel, that is god tier bad design.

Like any other class that uses one button a lot, just bind it to your mouse scroll.

[xfloydex]

Loving my druid now. Having brutal slash builds actually be viable on add fights is a thing of beauty. Incarnation also being viable feels great because you're not spending an entire fight doing catch up damage and cursing the fact the boss died too soon.

[Hellshout]

I for one just *love* our new rotation...

SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED SHREDSHREDSHREDSHREDSHRED >.>

If you have to make a mouse-script and potentially get banned just to prevent carpal tunnel, that is god tier bad design.

AutoHotKey. Just keep the button pressed. It's not against ToS because you are pressing and keep that button pressed until you decide to stop casting Shred.
Made my life easier for Rogue and Druid in all specs except Resto which i don't play.