Testing 7.3 Frost dk

[Deleted]

For me it was roughly ~40k ahead. Dont have the exact numbers because im in the office right now.
I used different trinkets. Spectre/Arcano for OB and Spectre/HoV for BoS. Im not sure about trinkets yet and need more sims. The difference might be higher, as mentioned the value of haste goes up significantly if i switch to OB so it would probalby be worth to change neck/ring, enchants and / or gems.
About the fights. It all comes down to add uptime in the fight imho. Per se you are right that only 2 Bosses are pure ST. But imho Sisters is pretty much a ST fight. Even in Mythic with BL in p2 you can already skip the 2nd add, so uptime on two target is super low., 90%+ of the time there is only one target.
For Mistress Mythic its best to play just ST and do as much boss dmg as possible. No 1 reason to wipe in mythic is massive padding on eels. If ppl care about parsing BoS will win, but i strongly recommand ST builds for this fight.
So OB and BoS will have fights to shine, which in general is a good thing.

[Deleted]

Well 40k is massive, but why different trinkets? Is your APL updated?

And HoV isnt strong AFAIK. If you pick a worse trinket for BOS, BOS should lose. Why not compare both with arcano? Or is your HOV so strong?

Next question would be if HOV and BOS are lined up together in sims. On a 3.5min fight, i would use my 2nd BOS together with my 2nd ERW, but sims might use them on CD, making ineffective use of BOS. And if you additionally misuse Horn of Valor....

[Deleted]

As i said, i need more sims for trinkets…. Before the patch i always used my 910/w socket HoV + 905 CoF. HoV always simed the highest for me. I just dropped CoF for a Spectre and simed it quickly. HoV obv. Is shit for OB so i switched it for my 905 Arcano. I still have to check cardle and engine, so i dunno which trinket is best for which talent setup yet.
I dont know how the new APL is using breath + hov. But since a 5minute fight is simed it would probably lead to BOS+HOV+ERW at the start, then a second BOS+HOV without ERW and then a 3rd BOS+HOV with the 2nd ERW. Which is fine.

Do you hate OB so much ?

- - - Updated - - -

Looking at the first US logs, OB is pretty dominant even for fights like DI and Harjatan.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ght&spec=Frost

[Deleted]

As i said, i need more sims for trinkets…. Before the patch i always used my 910/w socket HoV + 905 CoF. HoV always simed the highest for me. I just dropped CoF for a Spectre and simed it quickly. HoV obv. Is shit for OB so i switched it for my 905 Arcano. I still have to check cardle and engine, so i dunno which trinket is best for which talent setup yet.
I dont know how the new APL is using breath + hov. But since a 5minute fight is simed it would probably lead to BOS+HOV+ERW at the start, then a second BOS+HOV without ERW and then a 3rd BOS+HOV with the 2nd ERW. Which is fine.

Do you hate OB so much ?

- - - Updated - - -

Looking at the first US logs, OB is pretty dominant even for fights like DI and Harjatan.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ght&spec=Frost

Well if 95% of all players play obliterate, of course it will dominate.

As long as someone says: "this is best"

People will play it.

Next problem is: some people playing BOS have no clue. If you look at talents they have senseless combinations. From the top 50 frost dks for ilvl, only 1 has BOS. So there is no data. We wont get that data as long as 95% of top players play Obliterate.

And prepatch Obliterate simmed only 1% lower than BOS. But look at data:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...ents&boss=2032

BOS was 33% ahead of Obliterate. Why? Because only bad players played Oblitrrate....

[Deleted]

"Discussing" with you is pointless, i will just stop from here. Bos is best for everything, you are right o/

[Deleted]

"Discussing" with you is pointless, i will just stop from here. Bos is best for everything, you are right o/

Did i say that? I always referred to my char with my relics, my trinkets and so on. Btw without COF, HRW sims 15k below Obliteration, but COF increases dps of my HRW build by 25k. So HRW with COF sims highest for me, not BOS.

Might be different if i had a 940 Spectre or 930 Engine.

My point is: results differ from char to char. Maybe my char favors BOS and yours favors Obliteration.

[Piz813]

So frozen pulse definitely is not worth taking?

from what I read and watched, yeah. FP and GA are not as good

[Kaver]

For me the dps of Frost still sucks compared to Unholy.

[Schizoide]

Which rotation/APL did you use ? The default one from simulationcraft or a custom one ?

Like I said, I changed literally nothing except the talents used. Legendaries and relics can absolutely make a difference.

Am I missing something? Is frost scythe actually better than obliterate when KM is up for single target?

Yes, and that has actually always been the case. The devs told us that was their design goal for the talent back in beta. Note that with all the various resource-generating talents and FsC, you will likely find yourself GCD-locked outside of BoS. At those times you will want to use Obliterate on KM to spend extra runes, assuming only 1 target of course.

Well taking FSc is nearly no dps gain on single target. So it only works on AOE.

It isn't much of a DPS gain if you use it with KM on single-targets. If you don't use FsC on single-targets at all, it will hurt you.

3210012 1 target, FsC on KM: 1052k
3210002 1 target, Ob on KM: 1007k (-4.5%)

So frozen pulse definitely is not worth taking?

Yes, 7.3 FPulse is a garbage talent, even combined with Icy Talons. I loved FPulse too-- it made using up all your resources feel good. Sucks.

Quite a few talents should be buffed and/or changed in the balance hotfix in 2 weeks.

- Shattering Strikes and Icy Talons should be competitive with Runic Attenuation. They aren't even close.
- Freezing Fog should be weaker than Murderous Efficiency on a single target and much better on multiples. Right now it isn't.
- Glacial Advance and Avalanche need numbers buffs.
- Frozen Pulse needs a strong numbers buff and Gathering Storm a small one.
- My sims show Obliteration inferior to HRW on single-targets. That clearly is not OK. Obliteration should well, obliterate BoS (which works on 2 targets) and HRW (which is target-agnostic) when facing a single target.

Again everybody should sim with your specific character, with your legendaries and relics. And remember, the sim may be way off as it's very new in the patch.

[Nemesquish]

People finally starting to feel the power of the belt!

[Maxweii]

People finally starting to feel the power of the belt!

It makes me happy that the one Frost specific legendary I have is the belt lol

[Nemesquish]

It makes me happy that the one Frost specific legendary I have is the belt lol

Yea, Not sure why more people dont use it. Chest is good and all, but with Bracers you're really encouraged to wait if Pillar is about to come up to dump a 20 stack, and with Icecap its slightly more random timing

[Khain]

Really disappointed with these changes, frost still garbage tier dps, Obliteration is not fun to use and the mobility still holding this class back.

[RuneDK]

Really disappointed with these changes, frost still garbage tier dps, Obliteration is not fun to use and the mobility still holding this class back.

You seem surprised we'r still garbage tier...I mean a couple fights we're solidly in the middle which is fantastic...but most of them we are bottom 7 now instead of the absolute bottom....hopefully they'll adjust our aura up in a couple weeks but given their track record I'd say most likely isn't going to happen or we'll see a frost nerf...cause god forbid frost is good outside the first tier.

[Deleted]

Like I said, I changed literally nothing except the talents used. Legendaries and relics can absolutely make a difference.

That was my point, the default APL in simulationcraft wasn't updated when you posted your results and some talent setups may not have been working properly, I suggest you try again now with the latest nightly (git build efd2b11ea) you might see differences.

[Schizoide]

I'm not going to do the whole thing again so soon, but if someone else wants to do so please feel free.

[Baddok21]

Well after tonights raid i think im done with Frost again for the forseeable future, have to see what happens in 7.3.5 or 8.0

just grateful DKs have 2 distinctly different playing specs that fulfill the same role (Melee DPS)

[Deonora]

Here I was all excited I can play frost again. Nope... its still shit.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Here I was all excited I can play frost again. Nope... its still shit.

I'd wait for the balancing patch in 2 weeks. After that you can write off frost.

Besides we at least made it into garbage tier for now, that is an upgrade of shit-stain tier .

[Bisque]

As many have already speculated, buffs/nerfs probably won't come till netherblight crucible release. My guess and maybe this is just the pessimist in me talking is frost is going to get something like "3 buff to all abilities" and that's it. Which of course won't do anything but I just don't see blizzard giving more than a 3-5% buff to frost.

I am thinking now that frost really did need that 30% that was originally on the PTR...