The Fate of Xe'ra (Spoilers)

[Addict]

I get the feeling that for Xe'ra, she knew the prophecy and the pieces needed for it to happen, which she was following.

Thinking about the pieces themselves I'd say she didnt at all, seeing as how indiffrent she was to her subjects and so focused on how good illidan was, becuase of what he'd become, not exaclty becasue of what he had done.

Her reaction and cource of action when Illidan was hesitant and reluctant to submit sort of felt that way, she HAD to make the pieces fit, because thats the way the prophecy would come to fruition, it was like she couldnt compute it not following that path that had been laid out, hence her presistance and preachiness... and forcefulness.

though im just a dummy, but thats the impression i got when seeing the cinematic.

[Zulkhan]

Great, now we'll have a whole expansion with the same moral as Inside Out.

Already happened, it's called MoP.

That's the hyprocrisy of Illidan. Illidan sacrificed shit tons of people to further his own goal without letting them to decide their own destiny but when it's his own life, he is not willing to give it away to. He would be consistent if he believes you only get to forge your own destiny if you have the strenght to handle yourself in the first place.

To be fair, all those people didn't have to decide anything because none of them held the ambition to destroy the Legion ever. Illidan had harsh buddy talks with Velen about this because, despite their differences, Velen shared the same exact goal from the very moment he left Argus. The same could be currently said about anyone who's now actively fighting against the Legion to bring an end to it.

Well then, shouldn't he be overjoyed that he sacrifice himself for this Greater Good? What's that? Suddenly it doesn't seem like a good idea? What a surprise.

Well, there's to admit that when he killed the mages of the Moon Guard, the situation was critical and desperate enough and got a factual, immediate bonus by doing that. Not even trying to justify Illidan or make him a victim, what he did wasn't "good" or even acceptable in the slightest but at least we can say he got...practical and somewhat calculated benefits from doing that.

Here on the other hand all we have is a Naaru speaking about a "prophecy" and Illidan being "the chosen one" and the ultimate salvation of all because she says so. It's all about faith, not facts. Nothing but faith guided Turalyon to find and resurrect Illidan, just like faith is all that sustained Velen until recently. And well, it's quite established at this point that Illidan has no faith in any greater power whatsoever.

[Katchii]

I think they wanted to give Illidan another cool moment.



This isn't even an argument. Xe'ra wasn't even sounding desperate at all.

I'd argue she sounded completely desperate. "The prophecy MUST be fulfilled!" as she wraps him in bindings of Light and forces her will on him rather than trying to convince him to accept it.

She sounds like a blinded zealot. She completely brushes off her entire entourage, her closest followers and supporters and decides to go directly to Illidan and impose her will on him whether he wants it or not. Sounds pretty desperate to me.

[Qualia]

You're wrong. Without Illidan they wouldn't have followed KJ into the Twisting Nether in the first place. They wouldn't have died because Khadgar wanted to seal the portal the moment KJ went through it.

At the very end, there would be no Argus above Azeroth. Velen had the Exodar repaired and the included spaceship repaired long before Illidan decided to screw everyone over and open a portal to Argus, which is why sooner or later the forces of Azeroth would've gone to Argus with or without Illidan.

We know that the BL will now be defeated as players, but from a character point of view what Illidan did was extremely reckless.

Illidan wasn't the first one who decided to chase after KJ, though. Velen did (right after KJ retreated after we defeat the Fallen Avatar). So without Illidan, we will still follow KJ into the Twisting Nether - unless we decide to be coldhearted and leave Velen alone there (which would be uncharacteristic of the champions) while sitting back and closing the portal.

Additionally, while this is just *a guess*, without Illidan and his portal, I'd assume that it would take longer for the Vindicaar to reach Argus without any connection between Azeroth & Argus left. We don't see any Legion ship ever being able to fly over before the portal in the Tomb was opened and after all, and the Draenei took quite a few thousands years to reach Azeroth. Even taking the fact that the Draenei had many detours while trying to settle on a number of different worlds, I think it shouldn't be off to assume that the travel will take some time instead of being almost instantly as it was. We don't have time to spare, however, as Sargeras and Aggramar was on the verge of finish tuning the Pantheon - had they finished their job, the war would be over even if we manage to reach Argus. Aggramar + KJ alone sound extremely difficult to beat, throws in the Dark Pantheon and there shouldn't be any way for us to win. "Sooner or later" just doesn't cut it - we need to assault Argus and rescue (probably?) the Pantheon spirits now. Illidan didn't know this, of course, but his action unintentionally allow us to be there at the right time.

So all in all - yes, Illidan's action was reckless just like his other decisions in the past. That doesn't mean it wasn't an important / valuable decision that gave us a chance to win, however.

[Florena]

Don't fret Xera. We'll just toss your remains into the crucible and use you to power up relics or whatever until 8.0.

[anaxie]

It wasn't sarcasm when they stated Grom would be the endboss. They did, indeed, change their minds. Even Muffinus mentioned it was still possible he would be the endboss well into the expansion.

No they didnt but keep living the dream

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Illidan wasn't the first one who decided to chase after KJ, though. Velen did (right after KJ retreated after we defeat the Fallen Avatar). So without Illidan, we will still follow KJ into the Twisting Nether - unless we decide to be coldhearted and leave Velen alone there (which would be uncharacteristic of the champions) while sitting back and closing the portal.

Additionally, while this is just *a guess*, without Illidan and his portal, I'd assume that it would take longer for the Vindicaar to reach Argus without any connection between Azeroth & Argus left. We don't see any Legion ship ever being able to fly over before the portal in the Tomb was opened and after all, and the Draenei took quite a few thousands years to reach Azeroth. Even taking the fact that the Draenei had many detours while trying to settle on a number of different worlds, I think it shouldn't be off to assume that the travel will take some time instead of being almost instantly as it was. We didn't have time to spare, however, as Sargeras and Aggramar was on the verge of finish tuning the Pantheon - had they finished their job, the war would be over even if we manage to reach Argus.

So all in all - yes, Illidan's action was reckless just like his other decisions in the past. That doesn't mean it wasn't an important / valuable decision that gave us a chance to win, however.

Illidan ironically did something good but from everyone else's POV was reckless.

[anaxie]

I mean we should always consider the origins of Arakkoa culture. It was the wielders of the Light among them who went fascist and caused a civil war, not those of Void.

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Or it might not be desperation and she is simply accustomed to everyone obeying her. She is a Mother after all.

I forgot about that arrokoa story between light and shadow. Great reminder thankd!

[Venziir]

That's not the music I'm talking about. At about 0:47 when Xe'ra first say "Tyralyon" it begins to play, the strings

Oh THAT big! Sorry for being dense, yeah you are right, it does sound quite a bit like that.

[Florena]

and the Draenei took quite a few thousands years to reach Azeroth.

It's not like Azeroth was ever their destination though. They just kept fleeing the Legion and we don't know if the Genedar could have gone right to azeroth with its method of traveling.

[Katchii]

I mean we should always consider the origins of Arakkoa culture. It was the wielders of the Light among them who went fascist and caused a civil war, not those of Void.

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Or it might not be desperation and she is simply accustomed to everyone obeying her. She is a Mother after all.

But there is a very profound difference between choosing to obey and being forced to obey. She was forcing him. Desperate or not, she was no benevolent mother seeking to provide succor to her "children." She was an authoritarian dictator imposing her righteous view onto an unwilling parishioner and he was not having it.

To me the spectrum of desperation is between patient/calculating/strategic (not sure the best word, but I think you get the idea) and desperate. She was far closer to desperate than patient in this scenario.

[anaxie]

Dear Blizzard, please give me an expansion where we choose new factions. And infuse our characters with class themed powers of either Light or Void.

Uhhhhhh thats literally the netherlight crucible

[Soulwind]

Already happened, it's called MoP.

I get that it's a joke, but the moral of MoP was that Pride was a dangerous feeling, like Fear, Anger or Hatred, despite not being a bad feeling. While the pandaren did learn that completely avoiding these feelings wasn't a solution, the lesson never was that they were necessary, just that we couldn't destroy them.

(Although a few sticks and stones got the job done)

Our sorrow and grief being part of what makes us... us, is literally what Inside Out was about. And what Xe'ra didn't understand.

A balance between Light and Void is what created the creatures that the forces of Light and Void are desperately trying to use as weapons. They need us because they can't become like us, and they don't quite understand what makes us different than them.

It's not an original concept, but it's better than good vs evil.

[Jamie081]

That was such a good cinematic. The music was so sinister and Xe'ra came off as really intimidating and ominous, also the "I AM MY SCARS!!" gave me shivers

[Qualia]

Illidan ironically did something good but from everyone else's POV was reckless.

I agree that it's reckless (was any of his big plan not?). I just didn't agree with saying that he did nothing useful.

It's not like Azeroth was ever their destination though. They just kept fleeing the Legion and we don't know if the Genedar could have gone right to azeroth with its method of traveling.

Well, yeah, I agreed that they had many detours while they were trying to settle down on various worlds - it definitely took many years / decades, that's why I just put the 2nd section of my post as a guess.

[chrisisvacant]

No they didnt but keep living the dream

I can totally see where your point of view comes from, what with all the proof you have.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I get that it's a joke, but the moral of MoP was that Pride was a dangerous feeling, like Fear, Anger or Hatred, despite not being a bad feeling. While the pandaren did learn that completely avoiding these feelings wasn't a solution, the lesson never was that they were necessary, just that we couldn't destroy them.

(Although a few sticks and stones got the job done)

Our sorrow and grief being part of what makes us... us, is literally what Inside Out was about. And what Xe'ra didn't understand.

A balance between Light and Void is what created the creatures that the forces of Light and Void are desperately trying to use as weapons. They need us because they can't become like us, and they don't quite understand what makes us different than them.

It's not an original concept, but it's better than good vs evil.

Sorrow and Grief are feelings and well Light and Void are cosmic forces in the universe so it's a bit different. I get what you're trying to get at but it's still different.


P.S. Inside out was a good movie.

[Zulkhan]

I get that it's a joke, but the moral of MoP was that Pride was a dangerous feeling, like Fear, Anger or Hatred, despite not being a bad feeling. While the pandaren did learn that completely avoiding these feelings wasn't a solution, the lesson never was that they were necessary, just that we couldn't destroy them.

Well, when Xuen puts you to test he argues something about hardships being the source of our strength despite all the implications of potentially falling to negative emotions and so on. So it's not exactly that but is far by an inch or two at most.

[Wildmoon]

To be fair, all those people didn't have to decide anything because none of them held the ambition to destroy the Legion ever. Illidan had harsh buddy talks with Velen about this because, despite their differences, Velen shared the same exact goal from the very moment he left Argus. The same could be currently said about anyone who's now actively fighting against the Legion to bring an end to it.

That's just unfair. Illidan robbed them of their chance to make their choices. If Illidan really holds the ground that one should be able to forge their own path then those people who he sacrificed should have been able to choose to fight or not too. It's just hypocrisy. Illidan basically went "your choices don't matter anyway cuz you are weak and better be my tools than being useless." Xe'ra was forcing the same thing on Illidan but he just happened to have the strenght to resist.

BTW, I think Illidan does not that really hold such a strict moral code in the first place. He wants to forge his own destiny but he does not really hold it as a universal code that people should follow. It's fine as long as he is not the one being forced. Illidan does not think much about moral implications of his words and actions. That's his character.

[Zulkhan]

Sorrow and Grief are feelings and well Light and Void are cosmic forces in the universe so it's a bit different.

Light and Void may be cosmic forces but the universe itself is made out of that stuff. Both forces can influence mortal feelings and it's painfully obvious which of these feelings tend to affect respectively.