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  1. #1

    Sweden, Denmark say Russian fake news a threat

    I think Putin is shooting himself in the foot with all these cyber attacks. Putin and the oligarchs had to deflect the attention away from themselves and onto an imaginary outside threat. Okay I can see that, you don't want the masses storming the Tzar's palace like back in 1918. But these needless attacks are just making enemies and that will cost Russia in the long term.

    The current Russian administration is not only corrupt, it is incompetent. These cyber attacks will color every trade negotiation, every treaty, etc for decades to come.





    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...08-31-05-54-13

    STOCKHOLM (AP) -- The defense ministers of Sweden and Denmark say they would boost their military cooperation to counter the threat of Russian military buildup, cyberattacks and false news.

    Peter Hultqvist and Claus Hjort Frederiksen said in a joint statement titled "Russian fake news: A danger to our countries" that misinformation from Russia made their nations "increasingly unsafe." They said Thursday they would increase hybrid warfare cooperation, but stopped short of giving details.

    The two ministers from the neighboring Scandinavian countries cited an increased presence of Russian military vessels in the nearby Baltic Sea region, which has also seen several reports of airspace violations by Russian military aircraft.
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  2. #2
    Russia is known to bankroll news outlets that create the immigration hysteria, you ever notice how every alt right politician oggles over putin, its ironic that they say we need you to elect them to protect liberalism and free speech, then limit free speech( banning a religion, censoring press, banning lgbt opinions, IE russia)

    Weird how none of the "ANTI SJW" fanatics on youtube ever critice putin, you know he has a censorship agency? you can be jailed for saying anything pro LGBTQ, His political opponents conviently get assassinated or poisioned, You know protesting him is illegal unless his government authorizes it? Basically putin is one of the most anti free speech authoritarian leaders there is, yet i have yet to see dave rubin or sargon akkad do a video about him as much as they do college students, i wonder if any of them get paid by people related to the kremlin hmmm.

  3. #3
    I think they're making it sound a bit more of a big deal than it is. The sites that spread "fake news" and less acceptable opinions are small and far between. If anything our biggest forum Flashback reaches far more people than the questionable news sites do and it's got its fair share of questionable stuff in it even if I enjoy browsing the less toxic parts of it frequently.

    I'd say the state media and the biggest papers publishing clear lies and ignoring plenty of uncomfortable reporting drove more people to the alternative media here than "russian fake news", that just happened to be a good scapegoat with them supporting Trump. Nowadays I just read Facebook comments on articles from our big papers to amuse myself on ignorant and naive people defending literally everything.

  4. #4
    Of course it is, But Trump being voted in has bred a whole new level of ignorance in the American voterbase. Russia has tried this kind of tactic for decades but America is falling for it hard and fast, It helps to having someone so divisive and hateful in your key leadership position to hurry along the process of destabilization.

  5. #5
    Russia's just fighting back with the same tactics and tools employed by the globalists. Once the ruling elite figured out how to manipulate the masses with information, it all became fake news propaganda engineered to shape and control your worldview. And I'm sure some brainwashed indoctrinated useful idiot will jump on me only to prove my point that you're not free, your thoughts are not your own, and that anger you feel is misguided. It's pointed outward when it should be directed inward at yourself for willing away your independence in exchange for the illusion of security and group acceptance. "Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." - Carl Jung
    "He who lives without discipline dies without honor" - Viking proverb

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    Russia is known to bankroll news outlets that create the immigration hysteria, you ever notice how every alt right politician oggles over putin, its ironic that they say we need you to elect them to protect liberalism and free speech, then limit free speech( banning a religion, censoring press, banning lgbt opinions, IE russia)

    Weird how none of the "ANTI SJW" fanatics on youtube ever critice putin, you know he has a censorship agency? you can be jailed for saying anything pro LGBTQ, His political opponents conviently get assassinated or poisioned, You know protesting him is illegal unless his government authorizes it? Basically putin is one of the most anti free speech authoritarian leaders there is, yet i have yet to see dave rubin or sargon akkad do a video about him as much as they do college students, i wonder if any of them get paid by people related to the kremlin hmmm.
    Russia dont have to make fake news, to make us realize how bad immigration is here in Denmark.

    Non-western immigration is a net negative of 32billion DKK every year, for a country of 5.5million people. We also have a HUGE problem with violent crime, and visition zones created by non-western immigration.

    All we have to do, is to go the government bureau of statistics website, and we can see it all for ourselves.

  7. #7
    Fake news is rampant in all major news outlets, in particular the US...

  8. #8
    Deleted
    I for one welcome our new Fake News™ overlords

  9. #9
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloaa View Post
    Russia dont have to make fake news, to make us realize how bad immigration is here in Denmark.

    Non-western immigration is a net negative of 32billion DKK every year, for a country of 5.5million people. We also have a HUGE problem with violent crime, and visition zones created by non-western immigration.

    All we have to do, is to go the government bureau of statistics website, and we can see it all for ourselves.
    Just to clarify

    The visitation zones are created by the police. There are gang wars between immigrant gangs, there are deaths. The visitation zones are intended to try to limit the damage. Not sure its working. Just in case someone would run with nonsense no go zone babble like usually pops up about Sweden

    Side note is

    I think it is 33 billion DKK with around 17 billion of that being because a significant portion are too young to have a meaningful connection to the work force / pay much in taxes.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    I think it is 33 billion DKK with around 17 billion of that being because a significant portion are too young to have a meaningful connection to the work force / pay much in taxes.
    That's why people get so worked up about refugee children. They cost otherworldly amounts of money because of the massive list of rights they have so even if only a tiny bunch of them deceive the authorities about their age that's tens of millions more spent on them than otherwise. They also have the right to bring their families over which multiplies the cost to many times of what was intended. It's a giant burning whole in both Denmark's and Sweden's economies.

  11. #11
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saft View Post
    That's why people get so worked up about refugee children. They cost otherworldly amounts of money because of the massive list of rights they have so even if only a tiny bunch of them deceive the authorities about their age that's tens of millions more spent on them than otherwise. They also have the right to bring their families over which multiplies the cost to many times of what was intended. It's a giant burning whole in both Denmark's and Sweden's economies.
    It doesnt matter what they claim their age to be.

    What matters is what the state (or rather the relevant authorities) accept their age is.

    People read these statistics about how many of those suspected of lying about their age are found to be older (adults) and fail to realize the true meaning of that: That people lying are in fact somewhat often found out, that people suspected of being older are in fact being subjected to tests.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    It doesnt matter what they claim their age to be.

    What matters is what the state (or rather the relevant authorities) accept their age is.

    People read these statistics about how many of those suspected of lying about their age are found to be older (adults) and fail to realize the true meaning of that: That people lying are in fact somewhat often found out, that people suspected of being older are in fact being subjected to tests.
    Can't speak for Denmark but in Sweden there was complete denial about refugees lying and age testing was immoral and inaccurate and on and on and on. I'm sure they knew what the results would be and the stronger they held onto that the worse it became. Eventually more countries showed the same result, refugees being tested often lied about their ages.

    Last I read about the first tests being done here it showed three quarters being tested lied about their age, reasonable people collectively said "no shit bro what'd I say?".

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    People read these statistics about how many of those suspected of lying about their age are found to be older (adults) and fail to realize the true meaning of that: That people lying are in fact somewhat often found out, that people suspected of being older are in fact being subjected to tests.
    Might be true for Denmark, don't know, but wildly inaccurate for Sweden. Tests have been very rare up until quite recently (I'm not even sure if the proposed shift is actually in effect yet), and actually even completely voluntary. No need to get into the topic in depth in this thread really, suffice it to say that the statements are not applicable for Sweden, in any way.

  14. #14
    Dreadlord zmp's Avatar
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    Hey now, all these migrants are all high skilled labors, scientists etc. Our dwarf prime minister Lars L told us a couple of years ago, so we are lucky to have all these 3rd world migrants in Denmark. You should too, Sweden.

  15. #15
    What I think is fascinating, is how Danes and Swedes can (seemingly) understand each other. I love you, Denmark, but I can't understand you So how can the Swedes?!

    (I'm Norwegian in case anyone wonders. No, you don't, I know)
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaerys
    Gaze upon the field in which I grow my fucks, and see that it is barren.

  16. #16
    Troll hunters gonna hunt trolls.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    So many accusations, you'd think we'd learn someday what exactly did they hack and which fake news are they publishing.

  18. #18
    Considering its size and actual power I wouldn't call Russia incompetent they achieve quite a bit. Even hacking paper ballots if some news sources are to be believed.

  19. #19
    The best aegis against fake news from Russia is for our politicians, leaders and media to regain some of the credibility they have lost.

    A great example being, well, Russia. It's funny how Venstre (translates directly to The Left, and leftists they are) has spent the last few years talking up the vaunted Russian threat (I also consider Russia something of a threat, mostly to Poland and the Baltikum though) but they have never gone through with any serious actions to bolster the safety of our homeland. With great industriousness, they have actually done alot to sabotage our defenses.

    In fact, the politicians sold off our MLRS systems a few years ago to Finland for no money at all to save abit of cash. Now our artillery-force literally consists of a few old, rusty and barely functional M109. They are literally older than the Moon Landing.
    We have perhaps 50 Leopard II tanks of which not all are functional (Sweden has 3-4 times this number).

    We intend to replace 45 F16 Falcons with 23 JSF, according to military personnel far too little. Especially considering we also help covering Baltic airspace. Some financing problems are appearant as well; it appears the army and navy will not get much new material due to JSFs (even though they need upgrades).

    Our submarine force, far from being huge and impressive like Seawolves and Astutes, but still proffesionel and tailored to watch the Kattegat/Baltic Sea/North Sea against Russian Subs, was sold off as well years ago.

    And our Frigates, the vaunted Ivar Huitfelts, still lack proper missiles in their launching tubes even though they were meant to carry them (sorry, only proper source is in danish, google translate may make sense of it.. :P ) https://ing.dk/artikel/danske-fregat...are-sig-186831.
    Bottom line of the article is that we lack SM-3 ballistic missile interceptors and SM-2 anti air missiles. We're not going to purchase them. It also needs some radar upgrades, far as I am aware.

    Aaaand, let's not forget the last but not least - Le Grand Finale - our cyber-security department is underfunded and underdeveloped despite us being one of the first countries to digitalize virtually everything in the Public Sector.. (The ITU survey on cybersecurity found Denmark to be one of the least commited european nations to proper cyber security with very few initiatives in cyberspace compared to the UK, France, Sweden etc.). A joke.

    In herein lies a huge credibility issue to for our government, Venstre, "conservatives", the People's Party and Social Democrates alike (they all are social democrates of some form, really); they keep talking about the Russian Boogeyman, how the Baltikum is threatened, how we should be concerned about Russia's huge military drills. But they have done absolutely everything in their power to make us helpless, unarmed, deaf and blind in case Russia ever pulls a Red Alert 2 on us.
    My post is not meant as Anti-russian warmongering, btw, it's meant to showcase why some people here probably do believe in fake news. Because with politicians like I just described above, who can blame some village idiots for thinking Putin and his Russia Today crap-TV for being just as credible, if not more credible, than our own leaders? :S
    In summary, problem is so straightforward; our own leaders do not have a coherent narrative. They make Russia the boogeyman while also doing absolutely nothing to defend this land.
    If they were to fix their morribund and plot-holed narrative, they have 2 options as it is now; apologize to the public and pay what it needs to fix our defenses asap. Or shift the narrative into one in which we do not need any defense, something along the lines of "Russia is a friend" or "we can fix this with talk".

    I know a country like Denmark will make little difference alone, but a properly defended Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland makes for a helluva lot more difficult target than an utterly disarmed one. That, and we need to show that we take an international commitment like the NATO seriously. Another area in which are politicans are downright imbeciles; they keep singing that we cannot violate international agreements like the Refugee Conventions, but the NATO-agreements that we made? They violate them with great satisfaction every day.

    They do not give a shit about national security.
    QED.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by halloaa View Post
    Russia dont have to make fake news, to make us realize how bad immigration is here in Denmark.

    Non-western immigration is a net negative of 32billion DKK every year, for a country of 5.5million people. We also have a HUGE problem with violent crime, and visition zones created by non-western immigration.

    All we have to do, is to go the government bureau of statistics website, and we can see it all for ourselves.
    Indeed. For these 32 billion annually (the actual number may be higher, btw), we could afford proper cybersecurity, boost primary schools and research and then some.
    Last edited by Pengekaer; 2017-08-31 at 10:54 PM.

  20. #20
    Deleted
    Surkov is truely a hero of our time. The master of destabilized perception.

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