Already sick of Argus

[Eleccybubb]

Source: these very quarterly reports you urged me to read. Go find and read them yourself. Surely they would have commented on sub numbers if they had increased on their Q2 quarterly report. They did not. So that to me sends a message it is already below WoD levels.

I asked you for a direct source that shows me the current subscription numbers.

All you are doing now is speculation.

[Mafic]

Source: these very quarterly reports you urged me to read. Go find and read them yourself. Surely they would have commented on sub numbers if they had increased on their Q2 quarterly report. They did not. So that to me sends a message it is already below WoD levels.

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/weekly...hp?serverid=-1

Realm activity is showing a trend that is lower than the 2nd half of WoD and Legion is only one year old as an expansion.

Argus isn't going to do much to reverse this trend so patch 7.3.5 with the raid will probably be where the next spike happens IMO.

[zanzimar]

It's this thread again.

[Eleccybubb]

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/weekly...hp?serverid=-1

Realm activity is showing a trend that is lower than the 2nd half of WoD and Legion is only one year old as an expansion.

Argus isn't going to do much to reverse this trend so patch 7.3.5 with the raid will probably be where the next spike happens IMO.

And go look at the activity ratio for each specific server. It's red for a reason.

Stop using an unreliable census metric that relies on each realms data being updated or I won't waste my time with you.

[kevincuomo]

millennial cry baby!
Holy shit you are going to have a rough time in life if Argus terrain gets you this butthurt.

[Crookids]

If you need help, there are 1000s of map addons that will help you navigate.

While I miss flying, I feel the danger in not being allowed to fly. We are supposed to be on Legion planet. The Legion is not supposed to make a path for us so we can get to areas of defeating them easier.

Chests are supposed to be semi-difficult to get to. It's why they have rare items in them.

I think Blizzard did a good job. There's enough new aesthetics to make it feel new with the Legion feel. The travel system fits with the story and the lore / story is really good. Try getting into the quests themselves and imagining you doing what the quest says. It will make more sense and be more fun to picture yourself in the midst of this battle trying to help push back the Legion.

There's new content to explore, new materials, new follower campaigns among other content to learn and explore. We haven't even gotten it all yet and I already feel the urge to log on and see what's new.

I don't even want to say "just deal with it" because I find it engaging and have no issue navigating their map. The terrain can get frustrating around certain ridges but do it once and you learn from your mistakes. It's supposed to become more familiar over time.... It's new.

[Torrasque]

If this is the case, then you've likely been wasting your money on WoW for a very long time, is this isn't new and this is how they've been handling the game for many years now.

[Grenzstein]

Explain this type of timegating with your "story before gameplay" please. Disconnected from the whole theme and experience.

Actually, it's not disconnected if you pay attention.
We just got a foothold in Argus, we will do WQs through the week to maintain this foothold and on next week we will push further and even go to other worlds to stop the Burning Legion. After destroying their presence even further we can finally strike at their HQ. But thinking is hard, whining on forums is easier.

[Mafic]

If this is the case, then you've likely been wasting your money on WoW for a very long time, is this isn't new and this is how they've been handling the game for many years now.

That isn't true though.

Things turned for the worse in WoD.

[hyphnos]

I asked you for a direct source that shows me the current subscription numbers.

All you are doing now is speculation.

Hurrah. You win. Since the only proof you will accept you are well aware doesn't exist, then you may as well shut the fuck up.

The fact is people are citing very valid evidence to indicate that subs are down. Evidence that taken in aggregate and that has been shown to mirror Blizzard's reported numbers for years (warcraft realms) and Blizzard's tendency to talk up good numbers and fall silent when they are bad.

You know very well know no one can cite the kind of "proof" you are asking for and since you are unwilling to accept logical analysis with the data at hand, you need not comment over and over that you reject all analysis that fails to meet your bar of impossibility. So now that we know you believe no data or analysis that you don't like, you don't need to tell us again and again and again.

Anything you don't like is "wrong" and subject to a standard of proof that can't be met. I'm sure if we were talking about what a success 7.3 was, your standards would be a great deal lower.

[Eleccybubb]

Hurrah. You win. Since the only proof you will accept you are well aware doesn't exist, then you may as well shut the fuck up.

The fact is people are citing very valid evidence to indicate that subs are down. Evidence that taken in aggregate and that has been shown to mirror Blizzard's reported numbers for years (warcraft realms) and Blizzard's tendency to talk up good numbers and fall silent when they are bad.

You know very well know one can cite the kind of "proof" you are asking for and since you are unwilling to accept logical analysis with the data at hand, you need not comment over and over that you reject all analysis that fails to meet your bar of impossibility. So now that we know you believe no data or analysis that you don't like, you don't need to tell us again and again and again.

Anything you don't like is "wrong" and subject to a standard of proof that can't be met. I'm sure if we were talking about what a success 7.3 was, your standards would be a great deal lower.

Nope. Just unofficial census sites that don't have their activity data updated regularly anymore for each specific server are not reliable. Now if the activity ratios for each server were updated then you would have some reliability. But they aren't.

I'm happy to accept valid and reliable evidence of subs.

But I mean if you want to keep throwing them about go for it. Just means I don't take your evidence seriously due to the unreliability of the activity data itself.

If you are unhappy with how I like to see evidence then not much I can do I'm afraid.

Using census sites where the activity data hasn't been updated for each server is about as reliable as a Honda Formula 1 engine.

[Niwes]

hmm, what looks relative obviously to me is, that blizzard had chosen the "cost effective" route since a while (after MoP).

they produce relative cheap content (via recycling, copy and paste, simplifications, etc) based on a "get the most possible money with least possible effort" mentality. this pattern was overdone in warlords with no content at all. so now its "produce at least some content as long as its max cost effective". you can argue either its cheap shit, or it is at least content at all.

to a degree i can understand that. blizzard is in a fucked up position to some degree. on one side mmorpg genre is dead, ppl are no longer interested in and its hard to make money. every other company would let it die. on the other side wow is a big game and still some good sideway for money income. its hard to let it waste. so blizzard have to find a balance with a dead horse that can still make them profit.

and that balance is to drive hard on the "cost effective" route.

[Eleccybubb]

hmm, what looks relative obviously to me is, that blizzard had chosen the "cost effective" route since a while (after MoP).

they produce relative cheap content (via recycling, copy and paste, simplifications, etc) based on a "get the most possible money with least possible effort" mentality. this pattern was overdone in warlords with no content at all. so now its "produce at least some content as long as its max cost effective". you can argue either its cheap shit, or it is at least content at all.

to a degree i can understand that. blizzard is in a fucked up position to some degree. on one side mmorpg genre is dead, ppl are no longer interested in and its hard to make money. every other company would let it die. on the other side wow is a big game and still some good sideway for money income. its hard to let it waste. so blizzard have to find a balance with a dead horse that can still make them profit.

and that balance is to drive hard on the "cost effective" route.

MMORPG genre isn't dead per se. Just more to do with WoW kind of set the bar for big MMOs. Any dev that tried something different didn't really do well and the market itself is overcrowded.

I'd love to see a big MMO come along personally and give WoW a run for it's money and have a completely new formula. Problem is what formula should it be?

[Niwes]

I'm glad Blizzard decided to go with Story > Gameplay.
Moving around Argus ain't easy and that's good. If you can't even navigate around a zone to find a specific spot for a quest or maybe a rare mob then Blizzard has spoiled you too much. It's an invasion on the Burning Legion HQ, it ain't supposed to be easy. In fact it should be even worse.

Every time Blizzard tries to do something different people complain endlessly. But if they don't do it people complain that it's just another X or Y. No wonder they stopped caring about what the community wants, not even the community knows what it wants.

but thats the result when a company trys to cater to everyone. if you have a dedicated target audience that problems dont exist. but if you want to cater to hardcore mmorpg players, total casual gamers and everything between, then this is what you get. so its not a fault of the community. its the fault or greed of the company that there is a heavy diverse community.

if i cater to everyone and his mother i will never get usable feedback. simple as that.

[Grenzstein]

but thats the result when a company trys to cater to everyone. if you have a dedicated target audience that problems dont exist. but if you want to cater to hardcore mmorpg players, total casual gamers and everything between, then this is what you get. so its not a fault of the community. its the fault or greed of the company that there is a heavy diverse community.

if i cater to everyone and his mother i will never get usable feedback. simple as that.

Nop. EvE has a very specific player base and yet the community loves to bitch about every change. It's the nature of gamers, there is always a vocal minority complaining about everything.

[Eleccybubb]

but thats the result when a company trys to cater to everyone. if you have a dedicated target audience that problems dont exist. but if you want to cater to hardcore mmorpg players, total casual gamers and everything between, then this is what you get. so its not a fault of the community. its the fault or greed of the company that there is a heavy diverse community.

if i cater to everyone and his mother i will never get usable feedback. simple as that.

And if you cater to a specific crowd you alienate the other.

Wildstar tried this and look what happened. Lack of casual content hurt it initially.

Balance is the key.

[Niwes]

MMORPG genre isn't dead per se. Just more to do with WoW kind of set the bar for big MMOs. Any dev that tried something different didn't really do well and the market itself is overcrowded.

I'd love to see a big MMO come along personally and give WoW a run for it's money and have a completely new formula. Problem is what formula should it be?

the formula can stay the same. mmorpg were always about grinds, lore, and groupbased stuff like raids or dngs, etc. thats ok. but the thing that have to be done right is the niveau of the quality level. and there lies the truth. the genre isnt interessting enough that some company will ever invest that much money and effort to have a high quality mmo. ofc there are mmos out there. but they are all cheap shit. and wow have the most players because since day 1 it was high quality. but over the years it changed also to cheap shit for the reasons above. only a little less cheap as the rest, because of the still good money income. so ppl stick to it, bc there is nothing better out there. but measured against his own standards in the past, instead against others, wow also became cheap shit. but its the best that is left. so ppl still stick to it and blizz still try to develop it with least possible investment. its a stupid situation, but one the gaming market moved to, since 2011/12+.

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And if you cater to a specific crowd you alienate the other.

Wildstar tried this and look what happened. Lack of casual content hurt it initially.

Balance is the key.

omg. the wildstar argument. this instantly kills the discussion for me. i could repeat the same shit i showed detailed a 100 times why Wildstar really had failed and why the Wildstar argument is the stupiest and dumbest argument in the world, without thinking more than 3 yards. but this is way too stupid for me, so i dont. sorry, but if someone (around the 1 millionst) is comin with the stupid "but look at wildstar" argument, this discussion ends for me. and thats my final post here.

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Nop. EvE has a very specific player base and yet the community loves to bitch about every change. It's the nature of gamers, there is always a vocal minority complaining about everything.

yep, i agree to that. i dont know much of eve and cant comment on the overall behaviour of the community. but you are right, if it is so (and i believe that cause gaming communities are full of stupids or maybe young ppl without that much exp or differentiation) and a community of a dedicated audience game has the same level of black/white then this is some undebatable evidence. i agree to you, if it is so.

at least on my side is the argument, that my posted effect make things even more worse. but if its black/white or hell of black/white dont make any difference

[ryanmahaffe]

That isn't true though.

Things turned for the worse in WoD.

ANd Legion remedied almost all the major issues with WoD

Why WoD was bad seems to have been twisted and altered by people to fit there "wow sucks" agenda.
WoD was hated by the majority because
-There was no meaningful content outside of Garrisons
-The world content was mostly just Apexis quests, which grew very repititive because there weren't a lot of them and they all played the exact same.
-The raid and dungeons were all quite good, but the problem was dungeons weren't relevant until patch 6.2 and even then you could outgear them in Tanaan
-Ashran was trash and it was the only pvp content added to the game.
-6.1 came 3 months after 6.0 and offered no new content, just stupid gimmick systems
-6.2 expanded the Garrison feature everyone hated, added a zone with no real story, just farming rep and 6 more Apexis zones, and a 3rd raid, and that was it for the expansion.

Legion fixes all of these
-Class order halls are a thing, but aside from a few quests, aren't really that important and don't take up the bulk of your playtime, nor are they the only place to get meaningful rewards.
-The world content has hundreds and hundreds of world quests, yes, they may mostly be typical quests (though there are a few more interesting ones) but on the whole they offer far more variety and "fun" then any endgame quest content before it.
-Not only are the dungeons really good, but they have retained there relevance from 7.0 until now and people keep doing them thanks to the fantastic M+ system and il upgrades on gear every major patch. There has also been 4 new dungeons added to the game (counting split Kara) compared to the 0 in WoD and MoP, that is fantastic.
-The pvp updates and changes haven't been great, but at least there has been more of it like new/updated arenas, pvp world quests, and a whole new prog system.
-7.1 added a new raid, dungeon, continued the Suramar storyline, and brought in new World quests, and was only added less than 2 months after Legion launched.
- 7.2 wasn't much bigger than 6.2, it added good new class content, a mediocre zone with a bad story, and roughly the same amount of content as Tannan. buut...
-we have a 7.3 which adds 3new zones, a new dungeon, new scenario like content, 6 new world bosses, and a (so far) A great new storyline. we didn't have that in WoD, and we still have one more moderate patch coming with Antorus and whatever comes with it.


I didn't mean to type all of this, what I was going to say was was the community this whiny back in the day? Because damn, Not sure if times have changed and people with it or if the community has just always sucked when it comes to new content.

[Leyre]

My only problem is, you look funny at a mob, and the whole fucking planet is after you

[Deleted]

Nop. EvE has a very specific player base and yet the community loves to bitch about every change. It's the nature of gamers, there is always a vocal minority complaining about everything.

And yet, if this vocal minority didnt exist, Blizzard could just do whatever they please. It is not the vocal minority that is bad for the game, but the silent majority who is easily satisfied with everything.