Europe versus Russia, who wins?

[Varitok]

Absolutely the EU. Russia is far weaker than people think, They may have good numbers but their equipment is garbage. It's why they only pick on significantly smaller nations with smaller and just as unequipped militaries.

[Xires]

Germany would have won ww1 if America hadn't joined ? thats a really bold statement to make considering America was one of the weakest in the conflict. you are talking about a war between empires Americas help was greatly appreciated and certainly ended it sooner but germanys days were numbered after they lost there fleet and britan and france could successfully blockade germany 5 years in and germany was starving with moral at an all time low so even with the allies loss at verdun and the some they were buying time. the allies had "plan 1919" ready to go to end the war before America decided to join the party


now ww2 we were fucked we spread our army out way to thin over the empire. there u have claim to saving the day even though i believe Russia would have eventually beaten Germany without any of us.

What? Russia had just quit WW1 and Germany had been able to send hundreds of thousands of troops to the west. Britain by 1917 had been almost bled dry, and France was in worse shape. Their was a lot of mutiny in the trenches during 1917 within the French Army. And the German Army was within 15 miles of Paris. Yeah, Germany would of won WW1.

WW2, The US gave a LOT of supplies to the Russians, and without those supplies the Russians would not of been able to mount the kind of defense they did in order to turn the tide. Without the US, Germany wouldn't of had to worry about western forces. The US Air Force constantly bombed German factories, while supplying every single allied nation with the material to fight WW2.
Not to mention at the same time the US was involved in another major war against the Japanese Imperial Empire, whom at the time had one of the best Navy's in the world.

So, yes...the US fought two major wars on opposite sides of the globe. Nobody else did that on the scale of the US, and Australia would of been invaded by the Japanese if not for the US.

[Varitok]

"Gender Neurtalization"? What in the wide world of sports are you on about?

George Soros is putting MANY BAD DRUGS into the water, people not feeling good then suddenly, neutral genders. Many such cases!

[Xires]

"Gender Neurtalization"? What in the wide world of sports are you on about?

Where men are no longer men. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUrtD8BTjxY

Go to about 2 minutes and go from there.

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The bolded part...what the hell? Any reasoning behind this great statement? The only reason I see people not willing to ''fight'' right now, man or woman, is the great life we have that we don't want to throw away for some ludicrous motive. That shit is for two centuries ago when people, especially poor, were very gullible and drawn easy into a war just because a leader said so.

We're talking about Russia invading Europe. You are allowing yourself to be invaded by the 3rd world, and if anyone says anything about it..they are called racist. You are too timid to stand up for your own culture, which will be outbred within the next century. Those facts alone tell me that if you aren't willing to stand up for yourself against waves of 3rd world illegal immigration or even open borders...then you in no way will have the will to stand up against a Russian soldier. Sad...but true. Wish I were wrong. Europe had a proud history. Too bad you sold it out to feel more "righteous". Also, sorry...typo "Gender neutralization" The whole "Binary gender thing" and men are all evil and should be more like women..hence skinny jeans and man buns. See what hollywood is pushing...men in womens high heels dancing to "break gender norms". Get it yet?

[Holofernes]

Create the worlds 2nd most powerful army in a few months? I don't think you realize the training, time, manpower, and money it would take to do that. You need time to even build the machinery you'd need, and you don't have that industry, will, or the money to do it. That isn't even talking about the culture and language barrier you would have between the different languages. lol
What you are proposing would take decades to achieve...if it could even be done. Europe is not the Unites States.

the euqipment and the manpower and training is already there. Most European nations have highly trained and top tier equipped units.
If there is a common threat from russia, nothing hinders 30 nations to place a majority of their forces on the russian border. Heck even a few bataillons of Nato units in poland, not even on the russian border, not even with tanks, only anti-aircraft and artillery, make the russians freak out. Now imagin German , spanish, french and italian industry going on mass tank /aircraft production. They own the best tank design by Germany, Rheinmetall, and the biggest aircraft company Airbus in the world. If Europe ever feeled they needed to make a commitment into military, they could do it on a way that probably even beats the US capabiities. Germany once conquered 80 % of Europe within a few weeks, and nearly beat Russia, which back than was double the size and manpower than it is today. And nowadays its not Germany alone.

[Xires]

the euqipment and the manpower and training is already there. Most European nations have highly trained and top tier equipped units.
If there is a common threat from russia, nothing hinders 30 nations to place a majority of their forces on the russian border. Heck even a few bataillons of Nato units in poland, not even on the russian border, not even with tanks, only anti-aircraft and artillery, make the russians freak out. Now imagin German , spanish, french and italian industry going on mass tank /aircraft production. They own the best tank design by Germany, Rheinmetall, and the biggest aircraft company Airbus in the world. If Europe ever feeled they needed to make a commitment into military, they could do it on a way that probably even beats the US capabiities. Germany once conquered 80 % of Europe within a few weeks, and nearly beat Russia, which back than was double the size and manpower than it is today. And nowadays its not Germany alone.

You do realize that during the Poland war games last year, it was found out that the Russian military could conquer eastern Europe in just 3-4 days, right?
When you have people that can only speak German, or French, Or English, or Italian, or whatever other nation you have...you'll find that that language barrier would make you very ineffective. The equipment is NOT there. In fact Europe has done some serious downsizing the last 15 years. France asked the US for missiles in Syria, because the French military had run out of the type they needed to continue their already limited operations. Europe is VERY much undermanned, underfunded, and is not capable of doing what you claim they can. Sorry, but it's true.
Most European nations have cut their military's by 30% since 2001- and even then they were small. You are also comparing a society from the 1930's to a society of 2017. Most Europeans don't have the will to stand up for their own culture against 3rd world migrants. You do not have the will to stand up to a military coming at you full force. The ones you do have don't have the ammunition or the industrial might to back it up.

You are also claiming that Europe could just up and take its overseas industry and bring it right back, and it just doesn't work that way.

Also, half of Europe is very much broke right now, and the Germans and French are having to prop it up. Especially the Germans.

[Tomyris]

Where men are no longer men. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUrtD8BTjxY

Go to about 2 minutes and go from there.

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We're talking about Russia invading Europe. You are allowing yourself to be invaded by the 3rd world, and if anyone says anything about it..they are called racist. You are too timid to stand up for your own culture, which will be outbred within the next century. Those facts alone tell me that if you aren't willing to stand up for yourself against waves of 3rd world illegal immigration or even open borders...then you in no way will have the will to stand up against a Russian soldier. Sad...but true. Wish I were wrong. Europe had a proud history. Too bad you sold it out to feel more "righteous". Also, sorry...typo "Gender neutralization" The whole "Binary gender thing" and men are all evil and should be more like women..hence skinny jeans and man buns. See what hollywood is pushing...men in womens high heels dancing to "break gender norms". Get it yet?

And how do you know the reaction in case of an invading Russian force right now? The fact that I do not grab a gun and go at the border to shoot migrants, dressed in large jeans, tells you everything you need to know? So many truths coming out of mmoc posters' keyboards. I should talk to my representative and ask her to declare war to migrants, conscript everyone and go to war because that definitively is the same thing!

OT: Europe. Because it is probably the first time in history when we do not kill each other and we would be together in this.

[Xires]

And how do you know the reaction in case of an invading Russian force right now? The fact that I do not grab a gun and go at the border to shoot migrants, dressed in large jeans, tells you everything you need to know? So many truths coming out of mmoc posters' keyboards. I should talk to my representative and ask her to declare war to migrants, conscript everyone and go to war because that definitively is the same thing!

OT: Europe. Because it is probably the first time in history when we do not kill each other and we would be together in this.

The fact that you hate on anybody in your society that tries to stand up for your culture and call out the rape, murder, and costs to Europe because of those migrants shows that it is already too late for you, and that you would not have the courage to stand up to an invading army with guns, because you refuse to stand up to one with its hands out and a knife at your throat. I'm not asking you to go to war with illegal migrants or even migrants. I am telling you to do the right thing, and send them back. Use NATO to create "green zones" for the migrants in their lands. Train them and equip them so that they can not only stay in their own country and have protection, but have the means to take it back. Instead you bring them to your lands where they rape your women, and riot in your streets while telling you that "Freedom of speech can go to hell".

This is your future...hell...this is your present.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2nlIfn8tNA

This is your Europistan.

[Netherling]

This isn't a real life scenario, so if 'Europe declared war' we can assume that's the WHOLE of Europe. In this scenario Russia has also been invading other countries prior to the invasion of Poland. This would most likely give Europe some time to prepare and when the war starts i'm sure ammunition etc. could be churned out pretty quickly. Yes, Russia might do well initially against Poland, but with all the military forces of every country in Europe + many more recruits joining up to fight (because if they really were a threat to the whole of Europe, more people would definitely sign up / be conscripted) I don't think Russia would stand a chance.

[Zecora]

[snip]

You sir, are delusional.

Take two chill-pills and stay away from the internet until your hatred-levels subside, and don't call us in the morning.

[Xarkan]

People exist for someone's profit even today.

I find it unlikely that someone pretty much called moneylover mind if people exist for other peoples profit..

[Tomyris]

The fact that you hate on anybody in your society that tries to stand up for your culture and call out the rape, murder, and costs to Europe because of those migrants shows that it is already too late for you, and that you would not have the courage to stand up to an invading army with guns, because you refuse to stand up to one with its hands out and a knife at your throat. I'm not asking you to go to war with illegal migrants or even migrants. I am telling you to do the right thing, and send them back. Use NATO to create "green zones" for the migrants in their lands. Train them and equip them so that they can not only stay in their own country and have protection, but have the means to take it back. Instead you bring them to your lands where they rape your women, and riot in your streets while telling you that "Freedom of speech can go to hell".

This is your future...hell...this is your present.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2nlIfn8tNA

This is your Europistan.

Thank you, you seem very concerned about our future and I appreciate that. I am beginning to feel concerned as well because following your logic, if I do not react aggressively when given a burned baguette by a bad baker, that means I will totally won't react when someone hits me on the head. This is the difference for me between immigration, legal or not, and a military invasion. Against the first one I go and vote, against the second one I take up arms. I still wonder how an immigration policy has any say in predicting who is going to win a war, I am not convinced. If anything, Europistan would not want to fall under christian orthodox Russians.

[zebreck]

Where men are no longer men. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUrtD8BTjxY

Go to about 2 minutes and go from there.

Wait. So, like, you seriously believe that there's some single package of cultural McGuffin that serves as a proxy for...what? Combat effectiveness? Willingness to defend one's family and home? You get that cultures are literally made up right? Heroditus laughs at the Persians for being womanly because they wore pants. He knew that every true man wore a skirt. I think both viewpoints are idiotic, but if I have to pick between the father of history and a youtube channel I know which one wins out.

[Skroe]

everything you wrote is abject nonsense. Stop getting your info from Breitbart or Infowars.

Source: I used to be a military officer.

It is true that the entire Western world's munitions stockpiles are way too low, especially considering the fact that modern missiles and bombs are complicated and expensive, and without substantial lead in time, could not see a substantial surge in production. One of Mattis' first orders of business was to spend money to start increasing the us munitions stockpile.

Also in some cases, the wrong thing is stocked. Western Navy's have scarcely few heavy weight torpedoes for ballistic missile subs (but a lot of light ones for surface craft). Cluster munitions haven't been manufactured in the Western world for years and desperately need to be.

Everybody is woefelly deficient in the short and medium range tactical missile department.

And most notably short range air defense exists in woefully small numbers.

My favorite example of this is actually an American one. In 2003, when the US launched the Iraq War, the US had a stockpile of around 10,000 Tomhawk Cruise misisles, mostly the 'A' and 'C' model. It used 900 in the war. Most of those have been used, retired or disposed of by now. Today the stockpile stands at about 3000 (give or take) of the far more advanced 'D' model. Regardless of advacements though, it represents a more than 2/3rds reduction in the ability for the US Navy to strike targets in 15 years. And on top of that the current production rate is around 120 missiles per year (maximum capable with current facilities is north of 200). 3000 missiles won't get the US too far versus China or Russia, not one 9000 were used in two weeks in Iraq, which had been sanctioned and gradually ground down for a decade at that point.

This is something Mattis made direct reference to in testimony earlier in the year. Over the last 10+ years, defense planners have grown enamored of "cyber", "drones", "IT/Networks" and counter-insurgency specific stuff that they've lost sight of the need for conventional deterrence and the ability to destroy the defense capabilities of other nation states.

The US is working on fixing that. It's getting there. But it's early.

[Deleted]

Large scale battle, probably Russia, economic warfare, the union. Not to mention most of the Russian pop and their most important buildings are. Within close proximity to the union border.