Man Who Refused to Decrypt Hard Drives Still in Prison After Two Years

[Allybeboba]

I dunno, if the cops bang on your door saying they have a warrant to search your shed, and you say "lul I dropped the key down a drain, guess you can't search it" do you get exonerated of all charges on your word?

They can break that lock.

[Moshots]

Regardless of whats on that hard drive I don't see how they are keeping him in jail with no evidence... you have the right against self incrimination... If the FBI can't crack the hard drive they have 0 evidence. Thats the failure of the cops not the guys fault that the police are unable to find evidence to charge him with anything.

And talking about file names......... This reminds me of that streamer on twitch who got charged with child porn then acquitted... he was charged originally because someone slipped a file into his one drive named Child porn.JPG and people saw the file when he clicked through his one drive to open a game and called the FBI. Took 6 months for him to be cleared......

I mean obviously in this case the guy is guilty as sin but there are tons of murderers on the streets that police know did crimes but can't prove it... Police can tell you the top 5 drug dealers in Chicago but yet they are still on the streets Selling smack to kids and ordering murders... This whole thing to me seems like it breaks so many evendentiary laws that its not even funny...

[slime]

See... North Korea and the US aren't so different afterall.

[Iphie]

You live in a magical world. Go join the military if you wanna learn what no privacy is like. Its not a human right.

I'm sure you don't think the UN has any say in the matter...

However, article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights disagrees with your statement.

[Deleted]

As much as I'd like for him to be convicted if he is hiding child porn, innocent until proven otherwise. I don't see how this is legal.

[cparle87]

Death Penalty for Contempt of Court seems rather extreme don't you think?

No, I meant he's willing to sit in prison rather than let anyone see what's on the hard drive. Maybe he's worried there's something on it really, REALLY bad that might get him life, the needle, or whatever horrible way we have to do it.

[Deleted]

1 Child molester less, i doubt anyone cares.

Good riddance hope he stays there "indefinite"

You are a Child Molester and also raped 50 Woman....You should also be in Jail INDEFINITE

What did you say ? you didnt do anything of it ? Well who cares ?

[Themius]

I dunno, if the cops bang on your door saying they have a warrant to search your shed, and you say "lul I dropped the key down a drain, guess you can't search it" do you get exonerated of all charges on your word?

That's a different situation they can break into the shed. Or your comprise doesn't line up.

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Not quite, he isn't jailed indefinitely without hard evidence. He is being jailed for WITHHOLDING evidence and will be released when he gives them access.

Huge world of difference in that one. And the law is already fine with it.

But it is evidence they assume he remembers after 2 years if his password was something like ksdlfj93947%!7293IDl9028[]d93lck82^102@$@ , good fucking luck remembering that.

[ranzino]

well, we in germany can hold you in prison for refusing of testimony, but it has limits.
And if it is such a case like here, government is running against a neutron star. They can keep the computer, but never ever are they entitled to threaten you for passwords. they crack it on their own or sit on the HD until the sun goes out.

Burden of prove bites government more often than not, they have to do their shit while the convict twirls his thumbs and beware: the convict can lie 24/7 about anything and you cannot hold it against him. so better find something soon™ or you are the laughing stock of universe.
And if they cannot produce something on their own, convict is free after some time. and no, the time limit is not 2 years.

[Krawu]

Isn't it worth letting one scumbag who was smart enough to encrypt his drive go if it means protecting the rights of those who didn't do anything wrong?

Plus, it wouldn't be the first time cops put a guy in jail despite a serious lack of evidence. I'm not about to just take anyone's word that he did something wrong.

What if the next few guys they throw in jail for contempt of court really did forget the password and are actually innocent?

[Themius]

There have been several cases like this in here so far and typically how they end is that the alleged perps 5th amendments rights are being violated and they can't be forced to hand over passwords to an encrypted drive when that information may incriminate them.

[Aleksej89]

How can a modern first world country even have something in the law that can be called "indefinite prison sentence"?

You can sentence a man to a life in prison or a death sentence and both are understandable, but keeping him in the jail for as long as you fancy is just ridiculous.

If he is refusing to help the court and by law he is obligated to help the court, then there should be a FIXED (specific) duration sentence just like any other.

Even if that guy was satan himself such a prison sentence is just wrong and immoral, not to mention ridiculously abuse-able... almost like the state is blackmailing him.

[Socialhealer]

Don't even think about the case or the guy in jail. Just think about the fact that this can happen to anyone, including you, who refuses or is unable to decrypt data of any kind that is deemed relevant to an investigation. Think of how many different ways that could be abused. This sets a bad precedent. These laws are outdated and only apply well to the physical world. In the future lots of information will be inaccessible due to encryption. This is not the way to solve the problem. People must be innocent until proven guilty.

this is because of the highly likely chance it's child porn, it's not oh please unlock this drive we have no idea whats on it, it's oh your sister has witnessed you looking at child porn, and we have matched file hashes for child porn on the drive.

it's not concrete evidence but it's a very high chance, i'd rather people who almost certainly committed the crime went to prison than all of them got away because we're only 90% sure.

and again it's just his word he's unable to unlock that drive you know he can just lie right? and since it's a drive full of child porn he's got a bloody good reason to lie.

[Elim Garak]

You live in a magical world. Go join the military if you wanna learn what no privacy is like. Its not a human right.

Just because you can voluntarily suspend your right to privacy in order to gain whatever benefits there are in the military - doesn't mean it's not a human right.

By your logic right to life is not a human right - because people get killed.

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this is because of the highly likely chance it's child porn, it's not oh please unlock this drive we have no idea whats on it, it's oh your sister has witnessed you looking at child porn, and we have matched file hashes for child porn on the drive.

it's not concrete evidence but it's a very high chance, i'd rather people who almost certainly committed the crime went to prison than all of them got away because we're only 90% sure.

and again it's just his word he's unable to unlock that drive you know he can just lie right? and since it's a drive full of child porn he's got a bloody good reason to lie.

It's better to resurrect Hitler and pardon him because it all was so long ago than imprison a single innocent person. Hence why all civilized countries have no death penalty.

Not to mention that watching child porn is not a serious crime, I wouldn't even make it a crime as it hurts less than no one.

[Toppy]

this is because of the highly likely chance it's child porn, it's not oh please unlock this drive we have no idea whats on it, it's oh your sister has witnessed you looking at child porn, and we have matched file hashes for child porn on the drive.

it's not concrete evidence but it's a very high chance, i'd rather people who almost certainly committed the crime went to prison than all of them got away because we're only 90% sure.

and again it's just his word he's unable to unlock that drive you know he can just lie right? and since it's a drive full of child porn he's got a bloody good reason to lie.

Then put him through the process for that then. Try him for child pornography based on his sisters testimony. If there is enough evidence to still try him, he should be tried with that.

Don't hold him for contempt indefinitely, that is making a mockery of our system of justice.

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Just because you can voluntarily suspend your right to privacy in order to gain whatever benefits there are in the military - doesn't mean it's not a human right.

By your logic right to life is not a human right - because people get killed.

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It's better to resurrect Hitler and pardon him because it all was so long ago than imprison a single innocent person. Hence why all civilized countries have no death penalty.

Not to mention that watching child porn is not a serious crime, I wouldn't even make it a crime as it hurts less than no one.

Well no on that last point I have to disagree. The more people watch it and are into it, the stronger the market for it becomes, and the more it happens.

[Deleted]

Alleged Child Abuser. Innocent till proven guilty means something to a lot of people.


No matter what the crime indefinte imprisonment without a trial is wrong and should be condemned at every turn, this is the realm of the most terrible of dictators.

He has files with hashes that matches kiddy porn the investigators have possession of, there's nothing to discuss

[oplawlz]

The amount of people defending a man with a HDD full of child porn in here is disgusting.

Only people that defends a man like this, are the same that do what hes hiding on that HDD.

I haven't seen anyone defending the man. What rational people have a problem with is the clear over-reaching of the judicial system using legal loopholes to jail someone indefinitely.

[Toppy]

He has files with hashes that matches kiddy porn the investigators have possession of, there's nothing to discuss

Ok, then he should be put on trial with what they have, rather than what they wish they had.

[Independent voter]

A 73-year-old Philadelphia lawyer walked out of prison July 10 after serving 14 years for contempt of court -- the longest term ever served for contempt.

In a divorce proceeding in 1995 H. Beatty Chadwick said that he had lost his fortune of about $2.75 million and so could not make a significant financial settlement with soon-to-be ex-wife Bobbie.

At the time, the court professed its skepticism of Chadwick's claim of pauperage and ordered him to produce his money. He claimed the money had been lost and he was sent to jail.

"If I had been convicted of murder in the third degree in Pennsylvania, I would have been out in half the time I was in jail," Chadwick said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press after his release. "I have to spend a little time thinking about ... seeing how I can best use my skills and talents."

In 2005, Bobbie Chadwick said she had no reason to see her ex-husband remain in jail. She says she has wished "he would come to his senses and realize, 'OK, life is short, this is crazy.'"

But Beatty Chadwick, who worked as the top lawyer for an international corporation in Philadelphia, told "Primetime Live" correspondent Jim Avila in 2005 that he is not keeping anything from his wife.


This guy spent 14 years in jail for the same thing, refusing to obey a judges order. I guess he had a huge sum of money, like millions and wouldn't tell the court where it was. It was a divorce hearing.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=8101209

[Elim Garak]

Well no on that last point I have to disagree. The more people watch it and are into it, the stronger the market for it becomes, and the more it happens.

That's bullshit. Creation of Child Porn is illegal, watching Child Porn is illegal. Child porn is still created and watched. The number of people who likes to watch child porn for the purpose of getting off doesn't increase. It's not a contagious disease.

The crime is in production, not watching. No one is hurt by watching. They even make it illegal to watch CARTOONS. Not to mention production of said cartoons.
If you want to get rid of someone for long time - plant some child porn on their device or site - and call authorities. The mere possession is a crime. Not even watching.