FBI and DHS Classify ANTIFA as Domestic Terrorists

[Machismo]

My point was that saying all political violence is authoritarian is reductionist to the point of rendering the term "authoritarian" virtually meaningless. Every revolution. Every rebellion. Every war. All of these are political violence. They are not all authoritarian.

The real issue is about who wishes to be the first to use violence. That's why AntiFa is authoritarian, because they are usually the first ones to be violent, and are using that violence to force their beliefs onto others, and suppress someone else's freedoms.

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You are talking to someone who overtly supports the freedom to enslave others, I am not sure you are going to find any more than his trademark self-serving logic.

Can you point out where I support enslaving others. I'll go ahead and wait for you to find the quote. If you cannot, then please retract your bullshit claim.

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Still not correct.

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Go ahead and quote me on when i discussed antifa riots over ben shapiro or when i stated they aren't real.

Nothing to add about mussolini and how fascists weren't anti-jew? No? Huh, funny that.

Keep believing that AntiFa is not authoritarian. Their tactics and methodology are turning off far more people than they are winning over.

[Mayhem]

Keep believing that AntiFa is not authoritarian. Their tactics and methodology are turning off far more people than they are winning over.

They way you're describing what is authoritarian and what isn't is just wrong, that's my point.

[JohnBrown1917]

Keep believing that AntiFa is not authoritarian. Their tactics and methodology are turning off far more people than they are winning over.

Come back when they actually fit the definition, all that defines them is that they are anti facist.
Even if most antifa is made up of Dem Socs and anarcho communists... neither are authoritarian ideologies.




p.s its "Antifa" not "AntiFa".

[Machismo]

Come back when they actually fit the definition, all that defines them is that they are anti facist.
Even if most antifa is made up of Dem Socs and anarcho communists... neither are authoritarian ideologies.




p.s its "Antifa" not "AntiFa".

Actually, they both require significant authoritarianism in order to come to fruition. In the case of AC, that authoritarianism is spread out over an extremely long period, so it doesn't seem so terrible... unless of course one tries to be like the Leninists... then it is downright brutal. As for DS, that requires quite a bit of fealty to the government. Yes, taxation is authoritarian in nature.

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They way you're describing what is authoritarian and what isn't is just wrong, that's my point.

They want to consider themselves to be the authority, and want to use violence in order to suppress others. That seems pretty damn authoritarian to me.

[Elba]

Because punching Nazi's has a direct correlation to having less Nazis in the world.

/s If you didn't see it.

Yes. Make them too scared to be in public, spread their propaganda, recruit.

Ostracize them, jail them, punch them. Make being a Nazi truly dangerous.

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@Zython @PosPosPos @Mayhem

@Machismo thinks businesses not being allowed to fire or refuse service based on race or orientation is overly authoritarian.

Guy lives in a fantasy world. He doesn't understand that unlimited freedom leads to the opposite. Leads to less freedom for the vulnerable. Leads to the oppression of the vulnerable. Leads to violence against the vulnerable.

From his postings it is pretty clear the dude never had to face any discrimination or actual threat to his well being. So he clings to this fantastical abstract of "freedom" because he can't see or understand that without regulation or active opposition in the real world real people suffer.

[Machismo]

Yes. Make them too scared to be in public, spread their propaganda, recruit.

Ostracize them, jail them, punch them. Make being a Nazi truly dangerous.

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@Zython @PosPosPos @Mayhem

@Machismo thinks businesses not being allowed to fire or refuse service based on race or orientation is overly authoritarian.

Guy lives in a fantasy world. He doesn't understand that unlimited freedom leads to the opposite. Leads to less freedom for the vulnerable. Leads to the oppression of the vulnerable. Leads to violence against the vulnerable.

From his postings it is pretty clear the dude never had to face any discrimination or actual threat to his well being. So he clings to this fantastical abstract of "freedom" because he can't see or understand that without regulation or active opposition in the real world real people suffer.

You support ostracizing people, yet oppose it in the next comment, how very hypocritical of you.

The rest of your comment is just plain adorable, because at the end of the day, you are a hypocrite who supports political violence. Just don't get pissed when the other side decides to be more violent than you. But hey, it's nice to know you supported the violence in Charlottesville.

[Spectral]

The current outbreak of low-level street violence doesn't seem like it should be treated as terrorism, but it's worth keeping in mind that the late 60s and early 70s were loaded with left-wing violence. In 1972, there were 1900 domestic bombings. If the same sort of anarchism and/or communist politics continue to rise in popularity, there's good reason to be concerned that it'll escalate to violence and terror; one could expect the response to be a crackdown that creates a spiral.

[Zecora]

What the actual fuck? Is Dmitro really that ignorant?

I guess? He posted it after all.

[Mayhem]

They want to consider themselves to be the authority, and want to use violence in order to suppress others. That seems pretty damn authoritarian to me.

It's like you're on a warpath with the definition of words. What it seems to you doesn't make it true, even less if you're using words that aren't describing what you think they are.

[Machismo]

It's like you're on a warpath with the definition of words. What it seems to you doesn't make it true, even less if you're using words that aren't describing what you think they are.

I'm using the definition of words, thanks.

The Antifa I have seen want to force their political beliefs onto others, and are willing to use violence to do so. Their ultimate goal is the installation of their favored political system. They are literally attacking innocent people, and destroying property to reach that goal.

[Mayhem]

I'm using the definition of words, thanks.

The Antifa I have seen want to force their political beliefs onto others, and are willing to use violence to do so. Their ultimate goal is the installation of their favored political system. They are literally attacking innocent people, and destroying property to reach that goal.

Here you are just describing political violence, not authoritarian, nor authority, sorry mate.

[Machismo]

Here you are just describing political violence, not authoritarian, nor authority, sorry mate.

The authoritarianism is with the intent behind it. Antifa clearly has an authoritarian intent behind it.

[Deleted]

FBI and DHS just legitimized Nazi terror. This decision will get Jews and people of color killed.

Let the fascists fester in peace but go after the people actually fighting them.

America is on cruise control towards white supremacist disaster.

What makes you think the FBI doesn't consider many white supremacist groups to be terrorists/criminals already?

[Mayhem]

The authoritarianism is with the intent behind it. Antifa clearly has an authoritarian intent behind it.

The intent to fight authoritarians is the intent to be authoritarian?

So when will you pick up a dictionary and read up on these words?

[Machismo]

The intent to fight authoritarians is the intent to be authoritarian?

So when will you pick up a dictionary and read up on these words?

What is the political stance of Antifa? How do they hope to achieve their ultimate goal?

Authoritarians fight against other authoritarians all the time.

[Mayhem]

What is the political stance of Antifa? How do they hope to achieve their ultimate goal?

Probably fighting fascists sooo their goal would be to not have fascists in power, as in fighting for democracy. They achieve that through political violence. Nothing of this is authoritarian.

Authoritarians fight against other authoritarians all the time.

Yeah, authoritarians also have clear leaders or elites to follow, that is part of their defining features. Just how hard is it to grab a dictionary or use google?

[Machismo]

Probably fighting fascists sooo their goal would be to not have fascists in power, as in fighting for democracy. They achieve that through political violence. Nothing of this is authoritarian.



Yeah, authoritarians also have clear leaders or elites to follow, that is part of their defining features. Just how hard is it to grab a dictionary or use google?

The Soviet Union also fought fascists, they were very authoritarian.

A leader is not required, it can also be an overarching agenda and goal. That's why I specifically asked what the ultimate goal of Antifa is, because you and I both know it's about gaining power. Yes, even anarcho-communism requires authoritarianism to enact, and force onto others.

[Very Tired]

Yes. Make them too scared to be in public, spread their propaganda, recruit.

Ostracize them, jail them, punch them. Make being a Nazi truly dangerous.

Incorrect. But if only the world was that simple...

Nazi, in fact, WANT to be punched. They want to be displayed as the victim, with the left being labeled as the aggressors, or 'just as bad'. Stop to actually think that the world isn't as black and white as you think it is and that actions may have different consequences than you think. I hate to break it to you, but if you support Antifa's violence, you are basically support Nazi's themselves.

[Mayhem]

The Soviet Union also fought fascists, they were very authoritarian.

Yeah, and never once have i said fighting fascists means that you can't be authoritarian, you have asked what the ANTIFASCISTS are fighting for though.

A leader is not required, it can also be an overarching agenda and goal. That's why I specifically asked what the ultimate goal of Antifa is, because you and I both know it's about gaining power.

No it's not, hence why despite being around for more than 100 years they are quite quiet when fascits aren't trying to gain momentum. And yes, by definition a leader or group of elites is required for authoritarians, because they need an authority to follow. What dictionary have you picked up, it's neither merriam webster nor the oxford dictionary, that i can tell.

Yes, even anarcho-communism requires authoritarianism to enact, and force onto others.

Quite hard to imagine a form of authoritarianism that has no power unified within one authority, but hey why would you start knowing what you're talking about all of a sudden?

[Machismo]

Yeah, and never once have i said fighting fascists means that you can't be authoritarian, you have asked what the ANTIFASCISTS are fighting for though.



No it's not, hence why despite being around for more than 100 years they are quite quiet when fascits aren't trying to gain momentum. And yes, by definition a leader or group of elites is required for authoritarians, because they need an authority to follow. What dictionary have you picked up, it's neither merriam webster nor the oxford dictionary, that i can tell.



Quite hard to imagine a form of authoritarianism that has no power unified within one authority, but hey why would you start knowing what you're talking about all of a sudden?

The power can be within a group, not just a single leader.

These are not the same people as the 1940's, their goals are different. They are literally attacking innocent people. You continuously condone such actions, which is rather strange.

I'm asking you, what is the goal of the modern Antifa movement? Is it just to fight against Trump and his squad of asshats, or do they have a different purpose. Do they have any actual political aspirations of power? Are they seeking to be in charge? I believe they do want to be in charge, especially in the United States. I think a very large number of them are the Bernie supporters who became disenchanted over recent months.