If Jaina's A Hero in The Next Xpac, Should We Forgive Her?

[Utigarde]

Gotta love the responses in this thread. Jaina's a psychopath for reacting to the razing of her city, Garrosh is an innocent general who just wanted what's best for the Horde.

[Firann]

Food for thought... Why is Dalaran supposed to be neutral? I don't understand this push and notion that Dalaran should be a neutral city. Its one of the 7 human kingdoms that founded the Alliance. High Elves were only allowed in Dalaran as they were part of the Alliance.

Imo horde should just be kicked out of Dalaran in its entirety!

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

She has done nothing to be sorry for. The Horde should be begging for forgiveness for the crimes they committed in helping Garrosh. Granted, rebelling likely is that apology, so there isn't really one needed.

Except Aethas, he should be on his knees, kissing Jaina's boots like the shit he is.

Amen to this!

[FelPlague]

Why should we support someone who massacred cowering blood elves? Someone who abandoned us throughout legion due to her hatred? She's currently behaving like a !@#$%. Her irrational thinking of the horde is jarring. If Blizzard plans on making her a major "hero" of the next expansion, they had better have her change her ways and learn to be neutral again. She needs s redemption arc. I want her to feel regret for the purge of Dalaran and her abandonment. What do you think? Do you want her to be a hero? If she is one, what does she have to do to be put in your good graces again?

I understand holding a grudge, but massacre is just fucked up. Abandoning the people that need you without giving a good reason is fucked up. I hope she changed before she becomes a major character again.

1. she only killed the blood elves who resisted, she teleported those who did not to silvermoon.
2. she has the right to say no to helping us, she chose to go somewhere else, most likely to help her people defend from the legion.
3. her "irrational thinking of the horde" no, she is very rational, they have betrayed her time and time and time again.
4. she does not need to be redeemed, because her story arch makes sense, she did everything she could for the horde, even let her father die for them, yet they stabbed her in the back time and time again.
5. no she will not feel regret, because the horde hurt her and she hurt them back.

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Nope. Your fanon is that they were given the option. Jaina and Vereesa went from "accusation" to "kill them all" with nothing in between. They would have been given the option to leave, instead Jaina orders all of the Dragonhawks killed after shutting off the portals making the "surrender" impossible. There never was an "option".

She killed those who resisted, teleported those who did not to prison or silvermoon.

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show me the bloody guide lines of war in warcraft, hint there are none. there are no war crimes or rules its all fair game in war.

Really? capturing innocent civilians escaping war who are unarmed. Torturing them, killing them infront of their children, making them fight eachother other to the death or they would kill their child, using them as target practice, and many worse things.
here ya go.

A war crime is an act that constitutes a serious violation of the law of war that gives rise to individual criminal responsibility.[1] Examples of war crimes include intentionally killing civilians or prisoners, torture, destroying civilian property, taking hostages, perfidy, rape, using child soldiers, pillaging, declaring that no quarter will be given, and serious violations of the principles of distinction and proportionality, such as strategic bombing of civilian populations.[2]


Also we know they had rules of war in warcraft

Garrosh forcing sylvanas to not use the plague, saying it was a war crime
varian saying "if they do not uphold honor like garrosh did not"
and them talking about garrosh having his own civilians murdered.

[Lochton]

It's funny, a good chunk of the Garrosh and/or Sylvanas supporters attest that both never did anything wrong but then lambaste Jaina for everything she's done as some unspeakably evil action.

I know, right? It is because they made her be the holy mother of magic and she should never do wrong, blah blah, gasp. She had a breakdown! Shit, can't forgive that!.

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Uhh, no.
Garrosh was killed for/due to his crimes/ revenge.
We the horde...etc. didn't / do not forgive him.
Garrosh was rather like a certain early to mid 1900's Political person, In Germany who rose to power and did evil things in the name of his "Country" and beliefs.
The country of THAT persons origin did not,will not and has not forgiven them.

I'll have you take notice, I said players. Some believe Garrosh was a hero, players.

[Scornedfury]

She is a hero, but I think you meant part of main story.

Depends, are you Horde or Alliance?

I mean, a lot of Horde players seemed to have forgiven Garrosh, an orc who did much worse.

Lol What? Who tf said horde forgave him?

[Scornedfury]

I know, right? It is because they made her be the holy mother of magic and she should never do wrong, blah blah, gasp. She had a breakdown! Shit, can't forgive that!.

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I'll have you take notice, I said players. Some believe Garrosh was a hero, players.

Never heard anyone claim Garrosh was a hero for the horde at all. Sounds like Alliance trying to find another way to make horde seem like they are assholes and dumb.

[Lochton]

Lol What? Who tf said horde forgave him?

I said players, some do.

Never heard anyone claim Garrosh was a hero for the horde at all. Sounds like Alliance trying to find another way to make horde seem like they are assholes and dumb.

Again, players. And really, before you start pointing fingers, I'm a Horde main.

[OverFanNisseFrasse]

I believe Jaina got all the reason to hate Garrosh, not Horde itself, it was after all Garrosh that ordered the mana bomb, while most rest of the Horde hade no clue what was going on with that. Reasonable, I can understand Jaina be all angry and want to blame all of them, but even then she should been more reasonable to just hate Garrosh in my opinion.

As an Alliance player, I believe she got nothing to forgive, there are a few actions that indeed are questionable, but one have to look from her perspective. As an Horde Player, I got nothing to forgive either, I hade no clue of Garrosh intention, and she(As some one have already pointed out), wanted to commite genocide on my people of Ogrimmar.

In the end, I hope they wrap her up, as an Alliance player I see her as unstable and should go an retire, I can not simple trust her. As an Horde player, I do not want to work with her, and if Blizzard force me as a Horde Player to work with her, then I won't simple buy the game.

lol you guys are babies, the alliance dealt with horde xpac after horde xpac, but oh no, alliances characters are at the forefront, better quit

Define "Horde" expansion. I guess we can mark Legion as a Night elf and Draenei expansion then, with all the elves and draenei everywhere? It's just silly.

[Thundering]

I believe Jaina got all the reason to hate Garrosh, not Horde itself, it was after all Garrosh that ordered the mana bomb, while most rest of the Horde hade no clue what was going on with that. Reasonable, I can understand Jaina be all angry and want to blame all of them, but even then she should been more reasonable to just hate Garrosh in my opinion.

As an Alliance player, I believe she got nothing to forgive, there are a few actions that indeed are questionable, but one have to look from her perspective. As an Horde Player, I got nothing to forgive either, I hade no clue of Garrosh intention, and she(As some one have already pointed out), wanted to commite genocide on my people of Ogrimmar.

In the end, I hope they wrap her up, as an Alliance player I see her as unstable and should go an retire, I can not simple trust her. As an Horde player, I do not want to work with her, and if Blizzard force me as a Horde Player to work with her, then I won't simple buy the game.



Define "Horde" expansion. I guess we can mark Legion as a Night elf and Draenei expansion then, with all the elves and draenei everywhere? It's just silly.

I would say Nightelf/Draenei and Bloodelf/Tauren expansion since they have had alot of spotlight due to highm.

[Deleted]

Food for thought... Why is Dalaran supposed to be neutral? I don't understand this push and notion that Dalaran should be a neutral city. Its one of the 7 human kingdoms that founded the Alliance. High Elves were only allowed in Dalaran as they were part of the Alliance.

Imo horde should just be kicked out of Dalaran in its entirety!

Partially wrong. Dalaran was founded together with the High Elves. Without the High Elves human's wouldn't even know magic at all.
That was the purpose of the city to begin with, a city created for magic where the high elves learned a number of humans the power of magic so they could learn it further to other humans. Also why there are so many elves running about.

[primalmatter]

She suffers from bad writing.

Her character changes in order to push the plot and while I expect another 180 before a continued story line.

[Time Sage]

My question is: What has Jaina actully done that was really that wrong? Yes she kicked the Blood Elves out of Dalran and messed up talks for them to join the Allaince. But this is after they were breaking the local laws. She... um... Well what else did she honestly do aside from stand there and complain or aid Alliance armies?

[Selastan]

Forgive her? To give what she did, lets have a real world comparison. Imagine after Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were convicted, the president of the United States walked down the streets of New York with a shotgun, blasting every single Jewish person they could find. Their Secret Service came along, too, and actively searched the streets for people to murder. The president would even pay any passerby to go out and kill some Jews. That is a DIRECT COMPARISON of what Jaina did, just in a fantasy setting.

[Deleted]

No, she should die also, to keep the horde - alliance iconic character losses in balance.

[MrFiddleswitch]

The writing for Jaina has been convoluted for some time, but the essential idea has remained constant in that she has become her father due to the tribulations she has faced. It will be only fitting when we see her either come back from that (my personal thought) or be destroyed by it as her father was.

I would suspect that her arc will be one of coming to the realization that she has become her father - likely brought on by her speaking to the ghost of her father in some form or another (or by facing a named enemy in one of the zones - Kul'Tiras the most likely - that mirrors her and makes her realize that she has become her father).

The question, of course, is will history repeat itself and, like her father, will she need to be put down like a rabid dog?

[FelPlague]

Forgive her? To give what she did, lets have a real world comparison. Imagine after Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were convicted, the president of the United States walked down the streets of New York with a shotgun, blasting every single Jewish person they could find. Their Secret Service came along, too, and actively searched the streets for people to murder. The president would even pay any passerby to go out and kill some Jews. That is a DIRECT COMPARISON of what Jaina did, just in a fantasy setting.

No, because she did not kill every one of them, it was much more then 2 people, what she did was teleport those who did not resist out of the city, and killed those who refused and faught back.

[ceall]

As a former horde player, I still like calling that brown orc garrosh Hitler.

As someone who has played on both sides and now playing alliance, I hate Jaina for being such a (to quote the OP) bitch. I mean, sure, she hates the horde, I get it, but she didn't see how everyone has to work hand in hand to be able to beat the legion. And because khaddy brought the horde to Dalaran, she now has a hate towards the kirin tor (and I'm pretty sure the alliance too).
That is why she can NOT be a hero ever. I see her much more likely being the final boss of a raid (be it because of her hatred or because she somehow got corrupted).

[Alvito]

What exactly do people need to forgive her for? Alliance players don't have much of a reason to hold some lasting grudge against her. Mages might have a bit of a beef across faction lines the way she skipped out on them. Horde can't say much either. Sure they are getting heat for something many had nothing to do with, but if somebody bombed your home killed your family you might go on blaming anybody linked to them. She is almost every post 9/11 pissed off American and for her the horde is Muslims and people with a different skin color.

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She suffers from bad writing.

Her character changes in order to push the plot and while I expect another 180 before a continued story line.

Clearly she should apologize for her weak writing. She can't blame her poor story line on others like some German officers saying they were just following orders in WW2.

[Deleted]

she 'abandoned' us because blizzard clearly does not know what to do with her character (it's not like they struggle with this just now, either). one of the ideas must have been to turn her into a garrosh 2.0 but given how shoddy they are at crafting such stories, they must have figured it's better to just shelf her.