Lucid nightmare and future Old God location (speculation)

[LeftyDPS]

Hello everyone!

I have been working through getting the lucid nightmare today (endless halls took 3 hours but worth it!) and I noticed something about all the locations we visit, and questions specifically about one of them.

So, as part of getting this, you have to visit multiple locations, each which links to an old god;

Ulduar: Yogg-Saron
AQ: C'Thun
Deepholm: Deathwing/N'Zoth (not directly linked but makes sense as this is where he rested)
Gnomeregan: ???? (presumed to have something underneath Khaz Modan, as the troggs appeared when the gnomes dug too deep, and during the Thrall short story in Cata he feels a presence underneath the mountain, which is presumed to be Magni but have a suspicion it isn't)
Val'Sarah: Illgynoth/The Emerald Nightmare (N'Zoth)
Kun-Lai: Y'Sarjj
Kara:??? (could be linked to Gnomeregan but very large area if it is! Could also be linked to the wound made on the planet by Satiel which caused an eruption of the ley line when she used the deadwind havester there)

So, my question is, is there any possibility that there could be another old god (possible N'Zoth) which is located underneath the Eastern Kingdoms at all?

U know N'Zoth is meant to be the weakest, but he would be the most likely due to the area he controlled during the black empire. Or could it possibly be an unknown old god which time has forgotten about (the S.Priest dagger could be part of this old god)

What do people think?

[Deleted]

Well not everything within this riddle was connected to the old gods.
We did some heavy speculation about that in the discord server over the past days and it kinda connected Old God themes with the mind/brain.

But nevertheless we got strong hints all over this expansion which are leading up to the next one.

We already had the theory that 5 Old Gods rule over Azeroth (see pentagramm theory) but the Old God in the Eastern Kingdoms turned out to be just a Old God minion (see arms artifact, holy paladin artifact etc).

Overall I guess we count only 4 OGs.

I highly recommend to read the Warcraft Chronicles. The map of Azeroth during the Black Empire clearly shows that most of the EK had been under N'Zoths control. I think in Vash'Jir we had been pretty close to him.

[MechaCThun]

I think simply in regards to the name of the mount is another hint to what's to come.

Lucid Nightmare. Yogg-Saron referred to himself as the "lucid dream" and even the word "nightmare" has been associated with the Emerald Nightmare, and by that extension the Old Gods.

Hell, even a couple of mounts before this one have had Old God-like themes. That one jellyfish mount (well closer to an underwater theme rather than Old Gods) and the Riddler's Mind Worm thing.

[Zyky]

Well not everything within this riddle was connected to the old gods.
We did some heavy speculation about that in the discord server over the past days and it kinda connected Old God themes with the mind/brain.

But nevertheless we got strong hints all over this expansion which are leading up to the next one.

We already had the theory that 5 Old Gods rule over Azeroth (see pentagramm theory) but the Old God in the Eastern Kingdoms turned out to be just a Old God minion (see arms artifact, holy paladin artifact etc).

Overall I guess we count only 4 OGs.

I highly recommend to read the Warcraft Chronicles. The map of Azeroth during the Black Empire clearly shows that most of the EK had been under N'Zoths control. I think in Vash'Jir we had been pretty close to him.

I mean the lore contradicts itself in-game we have a book stating that there are 5 old gods but the Real life book(chronicles) says there's only 4. So truth be told who knows if its 4 or 5.

[LeftyDPS]

I have read Chronicles (both volumes out so far) and do think that there potentially is an unknown old god.

Always liked the pentagram theory and it makes a lot of sense, so even though a 5th old god would contradict chronicles, if its the case that NO-ONE knew it existed, it would still be valid and not contradict chronicles as lore wise up to that point there was only 4 known (it would be a bit cheap though I suppose)

[AbalDarkwind]

Xal'atath, Blade of the Black Empire heavily implies that she is the remains of an Old God the other four devoured.

[NoiseTank13]

I mean the lore contradicts itself in-game we have a book stating that there are 5 old gods but the Real life book(chronicles) says there's only 4. So truth be told who knows if its 4 or 5.

iirc the fifth old god was referring to the masters glaive in darkshore that was later retconned to only being a general of an old god or something

[Varolyn]

As I said in another thread... Shadoweave mask is a mask that covers the face. A veil also covers the face, and the piece is named "Shadoweave."

Veil of Shadows confirmed.

[chr2]

I have read Chronicles (both volumes out so far) and do think that there potentially is an unknown old god.

Always liked the pentagram theory and it makes a lot of sense, so even though a 5th old god would contradict chronicles, if its the case that NO-ONE knew it existed, it would still be valid and not contradict chronicles as lore wise up to that point there was only 4 known (it would be a bit cheap though I suppose)

That's not how it works. Chronicles is supposed to be the absolute truth of the Warcraft universe. If Chronicles says there were 4 Old Gods during the time of the Black Empire, that means no more than those 4 Old Gods could be alive today (and presumably only N'zoth out of those is left). This doesn't mean Blizzard couldn't change their minds in the future, but if they did it would be a retcon as it would very much contradict Chronicles. And from what I can tell, Blizz is trying not to retcon Chronicles since it would kinda defeat the whole point of the series. Sure there have been a few alterations between what we see in-game and what we see in Chronicles here and there, but only minor things. I doubt something as significant as the amount of potential living Old Gods would get changed.

[Enrif]

What about a "New" Old God? This wouldn't contradict the Chronicles Book as it only deal with past events, but what if somehow a new old god formed? Maybe after the death a C'Thun and Y'shaaraj and the defeat of Yogg'Saron, the remains of those olds gods were used by the last remaining old God N'zoth to created a new old god. Not as powerful as the others were in their prime but it could act more freely? Il'Gynoth could be argued to be similar to an Old God, but it only existed in the Emerald Nightmare...... or did it? Xal'atath calls Il'gynoth "a tiny growth of the behemoth that may yet consume your world"

[Zyky]

iirc the fifth old god was referring to the masters glaive in darkshore that was later retconned to only being a general of an old god or something

I'm aware but you'd think they would at least fix it so that they wouldn't have conflicting stories.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

What about a "New" Old God? This wouldn't contradict the Chronicles Book as it only deal with past events, but what if somehow a new old god formed? Maybe after the death a C'Thun and Y'shaaraj and the defeat of Yogg'Saron, the remains of those olds gods were used by the last remaining old God N'zoth to created a new old god. Not as powerful as the others were in their prime but it could act more freely? Il'Gynoth could be argued to be similar to an Old God, but it only existed in the Emerald Nightmare...... or did it? Xal'atath calls Il'gynoth "a tiny growth of the behemoth that may yet consume your world"

Or another Old God slammed into the planet and we'd be dealing witht he aftermath.

[Destinas]

Xal'atath, Blade of the Black Empire heavily implies that she is the remains of an Old God the other four devoured.

Pretty much this. She makes a lot of references to her "brethren" in reference to the other Old Gods, and calls each by their name. It's also stated in the artifact's lore that it's an "outlandish theory" that the blade is the remains of a fifth Old God. The other lore theory in-game is that she is a claw of Y'Shaarj, but she refers to him by his name as a separate entity as well.

It would be interesting to see if she was an actual Old God, considering we have no idea what her realm of influence was, what her specific powers were (like Y'Shaarj's emotion-based powers), or where she even landed on Azeroth.

[WolfRider]

Pretty much this. She makes a lot of references to her "brethren" in reference to the other Old Gods, and calls each by their name. It's also stated in the artifact's lore that it's an "outlandish theory" that the blade is the remains of a fifth Old God. The other lore theory in-game is that she is a claw of Y'Shaarj, but she refers to him by his name as a separate entity as well.

It would be interesting to see if she was an actual Old God, considering we have no idea what her realm of influence was, what her specific powers were (like Y'Shaarj's emotion-based powers), or where she even landed on Azeroth.

Xal'Atath is the name of the dagger.
She tells that this specific place holds a power that has attracted many races (Demons/Kaldorei/Trolls/Old Gods).
She tells that long ago before the Temple of Elune, the place was occupied by a more impressive structure. Notice that she rarely uses positive adjectives, so she's talking about Her city.
She tells that she has been ate by her brethen. So it's clearly pointing her as the 5th Old God.
She tells that a huge battle took place here, more impressive than the battle against the Legion.
She tells that Y'Shaarj and N'Zoth fought there and N'Zoth lost but this defeat saved him later when the Titans came.
She tells that this fight was called the "Battle for K'Tanth".

With all these quotes, it implies that Xal'Atath is the remain of an Old God called K'Tanth, who succeed to reach the World Soul and grow faster than the other. She was the first to build her city, and this made the other Old God jealous. Y'Shaarj, Yogg'Saron and N'Zoth where surrounding her, so they made an alliance to attack her. The battle took ages and a lot of resources but the 3 allies succesfully defeated K'Tanth. Y'Shaarj, who was bigger than his 2 brothers, betrayed them so he could eat most of K'Tanth and use the place to empower himself. Yogg'Saron was weakened and didn't want to take the risk to make an alliance with N'Zoth, who was the weakiest, so he left the Battle. N'Zoth stood but got defeated and had to flee southern.

This battle caught the Elemental Lords' attention, seeing these "parasites" as a threat they stopped their wars and allied against the Old Gods.

The reason why K'Tanth is not quoted in Chronicles is because there was nothing left from her before the war between Old Gods and Elemental Lords, Y'Shaarj took the place, and later during the Scouring, the Titans only found a deep hole leading to Azeroth's core, so they built a vault here. Later, the Kaldorei built the Temple of Elune there.

Notice that Xal'Atath/K'Tanth is the only Old God with a female voice, I think that she was the first Old God that managed to drink enough of the World Soul, giving her traits coming from the nascent Titan.

[IndoReal]

As I said in another thread... Shadoweave mask is a mask that covers the face. A veil also covers the face, and the piece is named "Shadoweave."

Veil of Shadows confirmed.

Hahahah, so epic, made my day!

[Dundebuns]

Xal'Atath is the name of the dagger.
She tells that this specific place holds a power that has attracted many races (Demons/Kaldorei/Trolls/Old Gods).
She tells that long ago before the Temple of Elune, the place was occupied by a more impressive structure. Notice that she rarely uses positive adjectives, so she's talking about Her city.
She tells that she has been ate by her brethen. So it's clearly pointing her as the 5th Old God.
She tells that a huge battle took place here, more impressive than the battle against the Legion.
She tells that Y'Shaarj and N'Zoth fought there and N'Zoth lost but this defeat saved him later when the Titans came.
She tells that this fight was called the "Battle for K'Tanth".

...

I've had a look at what Lovecraftian old god a K'tanth could be loosely based on (name wise at least) considering C'thun is Cthulu, Yogg'Saron is Yog-Sothoth etc.

I came across Kthanid, whom is a Brian Lumley deity. From wikipedia. I don't know that much about the Lovecraft mythos, so any extra info would be good.

Kthanid is said to be the "brother" of Cthulhu. He looks like his sibling, but has golden eyes. He resides within a crystal cave on Elysia. It is said that he is as good as his brother is evil. He bears a great hatred towards the old ones for they had killed his family, while he lay sleeping.

It first appeared in Lumley's 1975 novel The Transition of Titus Crow, and appeared again in his next novel The Clock of Dreams (1978).

Although this old one is depicted as male, it wouldn't be a massive leap for a Warcraft base old god to be a perceived as a different sex. It also hated the other old gods, as Xal'Atath hates the Warcraft old gods.

[WolfRider]

I've had a look at what Lovecraftian old god a K'tanth could be loosely based on (name wise at least) considering C'thun is Cthulu, Yogg'Saron is Yog-Sothoth etc.

I came across Kthanid, whom is a Brian Lumley deity. From wikipedia. I don't know that much about the Lovecraft mythos, so any extra info would be good.



Although this old one is depicted as male, it wouldn't be a massive leap for a Warcraft base old god to be a perceived as a different sex. It also hated the other old gods, as Xal'Atath hates the Warcraft old gods.

Old Gods are a mix between Lovecraft and ancient Egyptian mythology.
K'Tanth could be a mix of Kthanid and Amunet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amunet), who is also appearing in the movies "the mummy" and related to a sacrifice dagger that has been later buried in a crusader's Tomb.

Edit:
I've found this : https://books.google.fr/books?id=KXE...dorien&f=false

The translation of K-tant in ancient Greek is "murderer", "assassin"

[Ditju]

I would love it if by solving the next riddle, we would accidently free the old gods ourselves. Damn the completionist inside of me!!!

[anaxie]

Old Gods are a mix between Lovecraft and ancient Egyptian mythology.
K'Tanth could be a mix of Kthanid and Amunet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amunet), who is also appearing in the movies "the mummy" and related to a sacrifice dagger that has been later buried in a crusader's Tomb.

Edit:
I've found this : https://books.google.fr/books?id=KXE...dorien&f=false

The translation of K-tant in ancient Greek is "murderer", "assassin"

Ding ding ding.

Think we just confirmed that was her name. God of Murder?

Ooooo chiils now im thinking od baldurs gate

[Destinas]

Xal'Atath is the name of the dagger.
She tells that this specific place holds a power that has attracted many races (Demons/Kaldorei/Trolls/Old Gods).
She tells that long ago before the Temple of Elune, the place was occupied by a more impressive structure. Notice that she rarely uses positive adjectives, so she's talking about Her city.
She tells that she has been ate by her brethen. So it's clearly pointing her as the 5th Old God.
She tells that a huge battle took place here, more impressive than the battle against the Legion.
She tells that Y'Shaarj and N'Zoth fought there and N'Zoth lost but this defeat saved him later when the Titans came.
She tells that this fight was called the "Battle for K'Tanth".

With all these quotes, it implies that Xal'Atath is the remain of an Old God called K'Tanth, who succeed to reach the World Soul and grow faster than the other. She was the first to build her city, and this made the other Old God jealous. Y'Shaarj, Yogg'Saron and N'Zoth where surrounding her, so they made an alliance to attack her. The battle took ages and a lot of resources but the 3 allies succesfully defeated K'Tanth. Y'Shaarj, who was bigger than his 2 brothers, betrayed them so he could eat most of K'Tanth and use the place to empower himself. Yogg'Saron was weakened and didn't want to take the risk to make an alliance with N'Zoth, who was the weakiest, so he left the Battle. N'Zoth stood but got defeated and had to flee southern.

This battle caught the Elemental Lords' attention, seeing these "parasites" as a threat they stopped their wars and allied against the Old Gods.

The reason why K'Tanth is not quoted in Chronicles is because there was nothing left from her before the war between Old Gods and Elemental Lords, Y'Shaarj took the place, and later during the Scouring, the Titans only found a deep hole leading to Azeroth's core, so they built a vault here. Later, the Kaldorei built the Temple of Elune there.

Notice that Xal'Atath/K'Tanth is the only Old God with a female voice, I think that she was the first Old God that managed to drink enough of the World Soul, giving her traits coming from the nascent Titan.

Entirely possible. Good investigating. However, the name "K'Tanth" could also be the name of the Broken Shore/Thal'dranath when it was in control of the Old Gods. That's fitting with the way battles and wars are usually named historically, and we know of another Old God location (Ny'alotha) named after another Lovecraftian Outer God (Nyarlathotep). Though, it is also fitting that her name could have been K'Tanth. At the moment, we only know what she has told us - which is good and bad. Everything she says makes sense, and we have no reason to not believe her. But we are also warned that everything she says is a lie in the in-game lore, as well.

However, based on everything we know, it would make sense for her to be an Old God of murder/assassination. Another fitting theme would be sacrifice, considering that is what she's known for. Or, encompassing both - the Old God of Blood.