Argus: Turning a no-fly advocate

[SirCowdog]

Hmmm with profit in focus, token being a bound vendor item is even stronger argument against its tangibility for me. I consider the arbitrary gold price of tokens to be always set well below what the market would actually demand, since it lowers its cash value.

I could see a case for Blizzard controlling the price of tokens, but I really don't believe they'd simply drop them into the game as a gold sink. Because that would mean that Blizzard cares about how much digital currency is in the game MORE than how much actual realy world money they're making.

[Deleted]

I could see a case for Blizzard controlling the price of tokens, but I really don't believe they'd simply drop them into the game as a gold sink. Because that would mean that Blizzard cares about how much digital currency is in the game MORE than how much actual realy world money they're making.

Gold price of the token decides its desirability for cash buyers.

[Elim Garak]

Blizzard is totally controlling the token price in gold, it would be stupid not to.
Probably they threw in some free tokens into the system initially - to get it going.

[Vorkreist]

I would be all for the trade off of no fly zones if they put a bit of heart into the zones. In my opinion Broken shore and Argus are ugly pieces of shit content.

Its almost as if they moved the team who made Suramar to the next exp and put Billy the intern copypaste the old black/green textures randomly and call it a patch.

[Deleted]

People were whining zones are too easy and mobs are too few and not dangerous at all. Wanted zones where mobs are dangerous and you have to avoid them and are not killed in 2 sec like in vanilla old times. When they do zone like this the same people are whining because it's pain in the ass and they want flying to make it easy.

Classic WoW community

[Deleted]

People were whining zones are too easy and mobs are too few and not dangerous at all. Wanted zones where mobs are dangerous and you have to avoid them and are not killed in 2 sec like in vanilla old times. When they do zone like this the same people are whining because it's pain in the ass and they want flying to make it easy.

Classic WoW community

No no no.

People here want: hard leveling experience, but not too hard.

Lasting and relevant leveling experience, but only if i can cheese it fast.

Dangerous world, but skippable.

Slow steady amount of content, but one you can do in one day possibly.

Vanilla like experience,but with flying so i can skip it.

Why Blizzard can't do such simple things?

/s

[Izzyfurious]

People were whining zones are too easy and mobs are too few and not dangerous at all. Wanted zones where mobs are dangerous and you have to avoid them and are not killed in 2 sec like in vanilla old times. When they do zone like this the same people are whining because it's pain in the ass and they want flying to make it easy.

Classic WoW community

You mean vocal minority. The Vocal minority does not mean the community, it is such a small part of the player base they are worthless to compare to.

And it doesn't matter what blizz changes, this minority will never, NEVER, be satisfied about ANYTHING blizz changes!

Have people ever questioned if these people from this minority also complain this much in real life? because after so much vocalness from them. I sure as hell think they do that too!

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

The terrain is ok. What is really bothering me is how long you stay in combat after killing your mob(so new ones respawn and put you in combat; it's an endless battle) and if I'm standing somewhere - doesn't matter if I'm in combat or not - and someone else runs by with a giant trail of mobs, these mobs will soon stop chasing that other player and attack me even though I didn't even fucking touch them!
That shit is getting on my nerves, not the terrain.

[KSM899]

All Legion zones are the same, they are super packed to the point of being annoying.

I don't mind not flying if the zones are like Pandaria or even Azuna, but they way they are now is just bad.

[SirCowdog]

Gold price of the token decides its desirability for cash buyers.

Ok, so we can probably agree that Blizzard controls, or at least somewhat moderates, the price of the tokens. But they're still selling the tokens to real people for real money, and real people are buying them for gold.

I still don't see how you can think Blizzard is putting tokens into the market without gaining profit from them. Unless you think the demand is so high that Blizzard is forced to release tokens into the market without profiting from them, in order to keep the price from skyrocketing?

- - - Updated - - -

People were whining zones are too easy and mobs are too few and not dangerous at all. Wanted zones where mobs are dangerous and you have to avoid them and are not killed in 2 sec like in vanilla old times. When they do zone like this the same people are whining because it's pain in the ass and they want flying to make it easy.

Classic WoW community

Tedium is not the same as challenge.

Throwing hordes of weak monsters who only purpose is to daze and irritate the player is not the same as an NPC who's got more complex mechanics, AI, and abilities which could actually threaten a player.

[kamuimac]

No no no.

People here want: hard leveling experience, but not too hard.

Lasting and relevant leveling experience, but only if i can cheese it fast.

Dangerous world, but skippable.

Slow steady amount of content, but one you can do in one day possibly.

Vanilla like experience,but with flying so i can skip it.

Why Blizzard can't do such simple things?

/s

you are talking about 2 completly different group of people - one are people who are jobless basementdwellers and invest their life and dreams into wow and other are those who play 5-10 hours a week for simple mindless fun .

you cant ever satisfy both.

[Deleted]

Ok, so we can probably agree that Blizzard controls, or at least somewhat moderates, the price of the tokens. But they're still selling the tokens to real people for real money, and real people are buying them for gold.

I still don't see how you can think Blizzard is putting tokens into the market without gaining profit from them. Unless you think the demand is so high that Blizzard is forced to release tokens into the market without profiting from them, in order to keep the price from skyrocketing?1

Greed vs. other concerns. While Blizzard being a company necessitates some of the greed part, they have indeed proven on many occasions that butthurt can easily overcome it.
Which kinda makes our guessing game lose a lot of point. You can't make a very reasonable deduction without input data - in this case, motivation. If it was pure greed then I think tokens would not be bound and we would be able to speculate on them, since that would make the cash token more valuable.

It's certain that real people buy gold tokens. I used to buy them for gold.
It's certain that real people buy cash tokens. My old guildsmaster bought himself an Archimonde Cutting Edge that way.
I'm fairly confident that the price is regulated and moderated since at the end of WoD I had a few advance tokens bought and I was never a gold farmer.
None of this indicates a 1:1 link between cash and gold tokens. Blizzard announcements on the subject indicate, as on any other subject, absolutely nothing.

Now my biggest doubt point: I've once heard a story about token running out on Silvermoon-EU, about a year ago I think. If I could verify that this does happen, Occam's razor would force me to start thinking of the tokens as tangible and thus the point of my unsub to token would become a lot weaker :S
Which is doubly sad since my GF doesn't really like Star Wars setting (and even the ability to play the evil Sith inquisitor does not really offset that) and I don't have much hope for FF14 - people describe it as clunky, which means it's not likely to get any more traction with her than RIFT did.

[SirCowdog]

It's certain that real people buy gold tokens. I used to buy them for gold.
It's certain that real people buy cash tokens. My old guildsmaster bought himself an Archimonde Cutting Edge that way.
I'm fairly confident that the price is regulated and moderated since at the end of WoD I had a few advance tokens bought and I was never a gold farmer.
None of this indicates a 1:1 link between cash and gold tokens. Blizzard announcements on the subject indicate, as on any other subject, absolutely nothing.

Now my biggest doubt point: I've once heard a story about token running out on Silvermoon-EU, about a year ago I think. If I could verify that this does happen, Occam's razor would force me to start thinking of the tokens as tangible and thus the point of my unsub to token would become a lot weaker :S

I was under the impression that the token interface and market was linked across all servers. According to WoWhead Token sales are Region wide(US/EU/AUS). This is confirmed by the actual Blizzard info shown here: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/18390557

What's interesting is that on that same page, Blizzard seems to be implying that the price is not set or determined by players directly, but rather fluctuates up and down based on supply and demand and some kind of third calculation. However, that doesn't say anything about where the supply comes from. I did a little searching on the internet and couldn't find anything about whether or not tokens only exist if someone initially creates them by paying Blizzard $20.

To get back to the original point: By paying for your sub with gold, you are still, in effect, supporting a system which increases the cost of a monthly sub from $15 to $20. WoW tokens are sold for a set price of $20, regardless of what the price in gold fluctuates from. Regardless of whether Blizzard is generating tokens on a 1:1 basis, when you buy a token for gold you're still feeding into a system where someone else is paying $20 on top of their existing sub.

This has almost nothing to do with flying on Argus, except in terms of the situation where you might not personally care about the state of flying because you're not spending real money to play. However, you are still supporting Blizzard's business model, and by extension are approving of their decisions. In short: "I don't care(or it's not a problem) because it's not effecting me personally", which is a pretty terrible philosophy, all things considered. :/

[Scottyjscizzle]

I am really not seeing why people have such a hard time navigating Argus, its a stupidly easy layout.

[Inci]

I like it the way it is.

[Deleted]

This has almost nothing to do with flying on Argus, except in terms of the situation where you might not personally care about the state of flying

I care about the state of flying. All my alts are flying wherever they need and they have been flying for several months now, which is why I renewed my cash-paid subscription. A couple of my toons, that is mostly the tank and the rogue, are doing Argus and managing fairly well, although I don't like the wing clip in idiotically designed terrain and rep gate for whistle.

because you're not spending real money to play.

No relevant resources, to be specific. Time is money.

However, you are still supporting Blizzard's business model, and by extension are approving of their decisions.

In this vein, all US liberals are fervent supporters of Trump by the simple fact they're still paying taxes. Surely, their reasons are much stronger than mine, since tax evasion gets you jailed unless you're really rich, but the principle is the same: putting up with some BS does not have to mean approval for anyone and anything.

In short: "I don't care(or it's not a problem) because it's not effecting me personally", which is a pretty terrible philosophy, all things considered. :/

Let's embark on a little Hyperbole Journey.

You live in a world where several hundred folks possess superyachts. Semi-figuratively speaking, those superyachts run on the slow death of the starving kids in "Global South". They run on misery of industrial workers in post-industrial areas and on the black toxic sludge filling what used to be some Chinese lakes. They run on the smoke from the thousands square miles of burnt Indonesian rainforest. Have you already taken up arms in a global communist revolution? How many superyacht owners have you proudly presented dangling from lamp posts in your city? None? Terrible, terrible philosophy you have there.

Now, choices regarding how I play my video games have considerably less gravitas than the shape of the world, but they are still resulting from a whole set of principles and circumstances. As much as I disapprove of many Blizzard decisions, WoW is not likely to cease being my go-to video game any time soon now.

[grexly75]

Well with Mac'Aree open can see why flying would not work, at least between zones because Mac'Aree itself floats high above Argus.. Go to the end of the zone and you can see Argus far below, you could say that Mac'Aree sort of orbits Argus now..

[Elim Garak]

Well with Mac'Aree open can see why flying would not work, at least between zones because Mac'Aree itself floats high above Argus.. Go to the end of the zone and you can see Argus far below, you could say that Mac'Aree sort of orbits Argus now..

I fail to see why flying wouldn't work there. it works on Kalimdor even though you cannot fly to Eastern Kingdoms because Fatigue in the Ocean.

[Scifix]

Oh yeah, no no flyer's day would be complete without a slippery slope argument. The fact of the matter is, some of us don't like spending a lot of time playing the game at the lowest possible level (travel). It is, after years of gameplay not challenging, not interesting, not rewarding and in fact just raises the relative time cost of doing anything out in the world (which is already massively lower rewarding than instanced content) to the point where it's barely worth bothering with.

It's not about being "lazy" or "entitled" - it's about gameplay time relative to what is essentially a "time tax" and that is ALL that increased travel time is. If running around "exploring" Blizzard's totally artificial terrain that is quite clearly designed to waste time was at all entertaining, then nobody would take issue with it but it is simply not engaging gameplay and wanting to avoid it shows that some people place a higher value on their free time than you and your ilk do.

Well, people have always said that after vanilla, the social aspect of wow (which is what made me fall in love with the game) has just been declining, Flying is a HUGE part of that, it literally killed world pvp (and people who whine about that can play on pve servers)

[Thimagryn]

In this vein, all US liberals are fervent supporters of Trump by the simple fact they're still paying taxes. Surely, their reasons are much stronger than mine, since tax evasion gets you jailed unless you're really rich, but the principle is the same: putting up with some BS does not have to mean approval for anyone and anything.

Except that relates to law and you have no option to choose to not pay taxes without being punished for it. If you paid for a service that doesn't work the way you want, you have the option to stop using that service, thus cutting your support to them. You aren't going to have the IRS on you for stopping your WoW subscription. Not agreeing with taxes is not the same as not agreeing with entertainment goods and services.