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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I think the problem with this is that as @Mihalik said: women want to be "normal". Doesn't everyone? Normal is going about my daily business treating the world around me like it's safe and that I don't need to be armed to walk from work to the parking garage. That I don't need to undergo "special training" in order to feel secure about talking to a man one-on-one. And as he suggests, I think the contradiction that I'm supposed to be living in a secure society but that society expects me to be a gun-toting ninja would drive me nuts.
    There's a lot to unpack here. I am maybe not the best person to empathize with that desire to be normal and act like everything is normal. To be clear, I don't live in fear, but I do consciously think about things like, "If I get in this car I am multiplying my odds of dying today by 16.25." For me that's just a matter of fact analogous to the weather. That's just how I think about the world.

    The problem really comes down to: if a woman knows kung-fu and gets raped, should she have learned more than one martial art? If a woman who owns a pistol gets raped (while the pistol is in her possession) should she have owned an AR-15? If a woman who knows kung-fu and is an ex-marine with guns a civilian can only dream of gets raped while wearing a spiked chastity belt...guess what's going to happen? People are going to say her titties were too pretty. That her pants were too tight. That her gun wasn't big enough.
    This is an unfortunate truth of life. Sometimes you make all the right moves and still lose. For my own part, I would never go up to a woman that had just been raped and tell her that she should have done xyz. Anyone that has a basic level of social cognition knows that is probably not a good idea

    When you, as an individual are faced with a society who thinks nothing you do is ever enough, why do it their way? It's like the parent who never thinks you're good enough. Eventually you just have to tell them to go fuck themselves.
    As an individual, I don't really care what society tells me. I'll take the advice I think is good and discard the rest. I know of no other way to live.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Ah yes, people who hold unrealistic expectations of you should be appeased! If they don't think you're doing enough, clearly they're right!

    I'm not the delusional one here who thinks women should be gun-savvy martial artists to protect themselves from rapists.
    Perhaps you could kindly show me where anyone said that women have to be gun-savvy martial artists to protect themselves from rapists. Thanks!

  3. #123
    This kind of shit is exactly like saying seasonal hurricane, flood and tornado victims are at fault for living there.

    I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just pretty fucked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Ah yes, people who hold unrealistic expectations of you should be appeased! If they don't think you're doing enough, clearly they're right!

    I'm not the delusional one here who thinks women should be gun-savvy martial artists to protect themselves from rapists.
    Want to talk about unrealistic expectation? Talk to me about this dumb hurricane costing 100 billion dollars for a dumb city that literally exists on a flood plain.

    Situational awareness and smart planning could have avoided us needing to raise the debt ceiling 100 billion extra dollars and/or needing to recover from a devastating hurricane literally every decade. To the point that some people have forgotten how the last horrible Texas hurricane was handled.
    There is absolutely no basis for individual rights to firearms or self defense under any contextual interpretation of the second amendment of the United States Constitution. It defines clearly a militia of which is regulated of the people and arms, for the expressed purpose of protection of the free state. Unwillingness to take in even the most basic and whole context of these laws is exactly the road to anarchy.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Ah yes, people who hold unrealistic expectations of you should be appeased! If they don't think you're doing enough, clearly they're right!

    I'm not the delusional one here who thinks women should be gun-savvy martial artists to protect themselves from rapists.
    Literally no one thinks that but you. They can however employ common sense, which the cops were kind enough to give out. Next time they can just say "we're looking into it, good luck out there" if that will help your fragile feelings.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amerrol View Post
    Literally no one thinks that but you. They can however employ common sense, which the cops were kind enough to give out. Next time they can just say "we're looking into it, good luck out there" if that will help your fragile feelings.
    Actually a lot of people agree with me. Enough to the point that fewer and fewer people are saying stupid shit like "Women can control if they get pregnant from a rapist or not." Unlike you, WE are changing society. To one where the length of a woman's skirt isn't relevant to rape. Pretty soon we'll have made it all the way up to "We can't expect women to know martial arts and own guns just to go outside."

    Because you're the delusional one whose side is constantly losing ground and you think you're "winning".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by niil945 View Post
    Perhaps you could kindly show me where anyone said that women have to be gun-savvy martial artists to protect themselves from rapists. Thanks!
    Every single argument ever made that a woman needs to "do more" to protect herself from rape. Because their argument has no end point. It cannot be satisfied. Knowing kung-fu or packing a shotgun will never fulfill the argument. It will always be an open-ended "women need to do more", "women haven't done enough".

    That's why I hyperbolize it to "gun toting martial artists". Because the instant a female martial artist gets raped, they're going to say she should have had a gun. the instant a gun-toting woman gets raped, they're going to say she should have known martial arts. Because to them the woman is at fault, not the rapist. And naturally if you're at fault, you should have "done more" to not be at fault.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  6. #126
    Its a lot easier to advise victims and potential victims of crimes to practice behaviors that make them safer than it is to advise criminals not to commit crimes. I'd totally Minority Report the whole thing and give women who are going to be raped a gun to kill their attackers with, but until that happens your only move when it comes to preventing these crimes is to give advice like this.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    There's a lot to unpack here. I am maybe not the best person to empathize with that desire to be normal and act like everything is normal. To be clear, I don't live in fear, but I do consciously think about things like, "If I get in this car I am multiplying my odds of dying today by 16.25." For me that's just a matter of fact analogous to the weather. That's just how I think about the world.
    Perhaps. As we are both men, I do not think we can ever truly understand what it's like to be a woman. Even Caitlyn Jenner isn't gonna get it, it's an all-encompassing difference in life, learning and behavior that starts from birth and continues to death.

    This is an unfortunate truth of life. Sometimes you make all the right moves and still lose. For my own part, I would never go up to a woman that had just been raped and tell her that she should have done xyz. Anyone that has a basic level of social cognition knows that is probably not a good idea.
    Some people will never be satisfied with what you did. Women get raped all the time in Saudi Arabia. You know who gets stoned? The woman. I hate to keep going back to the fact that statements like these in the OP's article are soft Sharia Law, but that's the natural outcome of these statements. The belief that men are animals and we can only protect women by locking them up. When a woman gets told she needs a gun to go for a jog, she is being defacto locked up. She may have made the choice to stay inside, but by allowing the world to appear so dangerous that she prefers containment and confinement to freedom, she may as well have just been imprisoned to begin with.

    As an individual, I don't really care what society tells me. I'll take the advice I think is good and discard the rest. I know of no other way to live.
    Eventually, everyone does this. Most people like to fit in. When enough people get tired of fitting in, we get revolutions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    You are confusing "She should have done more, its her fault" with "Its his fault, women should learn to protect themselves"
    These statements are the same. You may have used different words to say them, but the statement is the same.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  8. #128
    For the past few thousand years it's been very common for women to get blamed for being raped. It still happens in western culture and even more so in others.

    So it's no surprise that when statements like this are made women automatically hear it as blaming the rape victim. But yes, it's okay to give women advice about avoiding assaults.

  9. #129
    I'm not going to comment on what's right and what's wrong, which most people seem to get into drawn into straight off the bat.

    What the news always seem to fail to report when sensationalizing on these sorts of headlines are details. Things like, at which hour has the assault occurred, where it occurred, was it in a public area or was she jogging on some backwater dirt path etc.

    I'm a tall guy and I ain't skinny, still I keep track of my surroundings when treading through badly lit areas and/or bad neighborhoods, look at people coming at me or passing by me. Ain't it common sense to do so ? The people who are "outraged" and are asking for the police to protect them 24/7 everywhere are either idiots or have sunk into some Utopian/hedonistic way of thinking and probably call an electrician to change a burnt out light bulb due to their incapability to think outside of their own reference frame.
    It is not realistically possible to never put yourself in danger, so "be prepared" i guess.

    Also, it has been proven over and over that certain crimes are committed by mentally and/or materially impaired culprits when an ideal opportunity presents itself, aka the "I won't be caught" scenario. Educating people that rape/theft/crime is bad may create a conscious/subconscious deterrent, but it is only a half-measure, people also need to be told what's the right way to conduct themselves. Much of this comes from a person's upbringing.

    And lastly, try and put yourself in a position of a person who is about to commit a crime which takes away someone else's freedom of choice (you force something upon them, sexually or in some other way) and imagine the state of mind they have to be in to allow themselves to do such a thing. If you work your way backwards from there, and you'll realize that only the girl could've (possibly) prevented such a thing just by thinking of where she's going and what's going on around her and (i'm gonna presume this one) not having earbuds blasting the latest jam at 100/100 volume.

    TL;DR - The secularness of today's society is such that people always blame others for not doing their job. If i left my front door open and someone robbed the shit out of me, I would blame myself for being an idiot, and not the cops for not being there to protect my property. Opportunity makes the thief a thief, a lone girl jogging in a secluded area makes the rapist a rapist. Of course those idiots have to be fucked up in the head to begin with in order to allow themselves to do such a thing. Regardless of that, the only thing a person can truly control are their own actions, so why not put in a bit more effort into keeping an eye out for bad stuff mmkay ?

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    rapes tend to happen behind closed doors,
    the whole premise was women jogging alone, what the fuck do you mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by TITAN308 View Post
    Trigger Warning: Fox News Link - http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/09...utal-rape.html

    Cliff Notes:

    - Jogger Badly Beaten & Raped
    - Police suggest running in pairs and/or keeping an eye over your shoulder when passing
    - People actually get angry at this because they think the police can/should protect every citizen 100% of the time and are omnipotent



    Let me guess, taxes increase to pay for more officers. Citizens commence bitching?

    Is that usually how this circle is completed?
    Don't you know...everyone else is to blame.

    When people suddenly cross the street without looking and you accidentally hit them...it's your fault...not their fault for not looking.

    If you defend yourself against a home invader you're held responsible if you injure them while defending your home.

    Always blame someone else...no matter what....even if you're in the wrong...always get angry and never take responsibility!

  12. #132
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    I think that sums this up nicely. They COULD have prevented it - that's why they're called preventative measures. If you expect there to be a cop on every corner, you have another thing coming.
    Oh yeah they could've prevented it. Just don't ever be alone if you're a woman. Genius.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    that I don't need to be armed to walk from work to the parking garage. That I don't need to undergo "special training" in order to feel secure about talking to a man one-on-one. And as he suggests, I think the contradiction that I'm supposed to be living in a secure society but that society expects me to be a gun-toting ninja would drive me nuts.
    You don't need to be armed, but you need to be aware of your surroundings. People should quit with this delusion that they are 100% safe, or that it's even achievable or realistic goal. It's human-to-human interactions we are talking about, 100% safety comes only with 0% freedom.

    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    The problem really comes down to: if a woman knows kung-fu and gets raped, should she have learned more than one martial art? If a woman who owns a pistol gets raped (while the pistol is in her possession) should she have owned an AR-15? If a woman who knows kung-fu and is an ex-marine with guns a civilian can only dream of gets raped while wearing a spiked chastity belt...guess what's going to happen?

    People are going to say her titties were too pretty. That her pants were too tight. That her gun wasn't big enough.
    Martial arts hardly will help you, but there are self-defense courses. They are aimed mostly at... teaching people to be self-aware, being able to use energy from stress, recognizing dangerous situations, learning ways to get out of bad situations. You know, avoiding conflict, not this death-punch bullshit that usually is advertised. Being armed won't help you after someone creeps at you from behind. It's the case of being aware of what is going on around you and know how to act if you get attacked. It's not something luxury to know self-defense, it should be tought at school.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    When you, as an individual are faced with a society who thinks nothing you do is ever enough, why do it their way? It's like the parent who never thinks you're good enough. Eventually you just have to tell them to go fuck themselves.
    That's completely irrelevant, you shouldn't expect to be safe just because you happen to live in a city, it's still dangerous place and humans are still humans - you should. Generally speaking - things that i've been told as a kind still apply when i am an adult - don't go into strangers car (but being an adult i can make exceptions like Uber, or other taxi cabs, while still understanding that risk of being kidnapping exists), don't go into "shady alley" kind of places when its dark (and you know, being an adult i can make a decision to still go there, taking the risk, or lowering it by not going alone, or going in there at daylight), etc. There are some precautions that you should take when interacting with other humans, modern notion of having safe space and being safe in general is just crazy. It sure is safe to live in the city to some extent, but precautions are still a thing

    And an anecdote from life - me and my colleague often run in the forest, and when it's winter and it gets dark early we had one very unpleasant encounter with really aggressive guy (after that it was kinda fun to see on Strava our pulse skyrocketing to 200+ for a minute) and she was grateful that she wasn't alone that day. So, yeah, these things happen rarely, and it may seem that lowering your guard would be sensible thing, but it's not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Every single argument ever made that a woman needs to "do more" to protect herself from rape. Because their argument has no end point. It cannot be satisfied. Knowing kung-fu or packing a shotgun will never fulfill the argument. It will always be an open-ended "women need to do more", "women haven't done enough".

    That's why I hyperbolize it to "gun toting martial artists". Because the instant a female martial artist gets raped, they're going to say she should have had a gun. the instant a gun-toting woman gets raped, they're going to say she should have known martial arts. Because to them the woman is at fault, not the rapist. And naturally if you're at fault, you should have "done more" to not be at fault.
    That's because your statement is a lie. No one says "well if you would have known martial arts this wouldn't have happened!" That's what you twist it into to make your fallacious argument. It's a strawman. Advising people to take precautionary measures isn't blaming them for what happened in the past, it's advice to possibly prevent it from happening in the future or with the hope of keeping a crime from being worse than it could be by being prepared for it, regardless of what it is. That's how we handle all potential dangers in life, whether it's an assault or a hurricane barreling down on the town you live in. Planning for the worst case scenario and making decisions that minimize the danger. If you want to pretend that advice is somehow victim blaming, be my guest, but that's not remotely the message communicated, that's (yet again) what you're twisting it into to make even more fallacious arguments.

  15. #135
    "Southern appearance" is that what we're doing now?
    Quote Originally Posted by True Anarch View Post
    Never claimed I was a genuis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Furitrix View Post
    I don't give a fuck if cops act shitty towards people, never have.

  16. #136
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Post View Post
    "Southern appearance" is that what we're doing now?
    It would be racist and not politically correct to call them by their nation of origin. His skin color was "dark-white", he would be called "asian" in the UK.
    or Im totally wrong he REALLY LOOKS LIKE A SOUTHERN LEIPZIG PERSON with light colored hair and white skin

  17. #137
    Deleted
    If you want run in a city park what's the point of the park. It supposed to be safe day and night, since it's in the city and should be patroled. Police's answer was more in line with the PC nature, so not to hurt the "migrant's" feelings. Look in Sweden, who do you think commit rapes at music festivals? But no...saying it as it should and applying the law is hard, it's not PC! /reeeeeeeee

  18. #138
    The police can't be there for you at every possible situation you get yourself into, so it's only wise to plan ahead and adopt safety procedures to protect yourself. People who can't see that are fucking idiots.

  19. #139
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Viconia View Post
    The police can't be there for you at every possible situation you get yourself into, so it's only wise to plan ahead and adopt safety procedures to protect yourself. People who can't see that are fucking idiots.
    In my city there are police officers in every 500 meters. They patrol their own area in pairs. What kind of first world city does not have police?

  20. #140
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Owlmygod View Post
    In my city there are police officers in every 500 meters. They patrol their own area in pairs. What kind of first world city does not have police?
    Ones that can't even question or detain groups of "african" migrants that behave like beggers or homeless. Because in their minds, applying the law in this case will be racism and might get them fired. So they choose to ignore them at the expense of them commiting crimes, like this one.

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