The Faction War: Should it be Continued?

[Deleted]

There are two fundumentaly different people, Horde and Alliance. Also It's the ESSENCE of the game, you take away the fighting of these two major powers you take away the game itself.

It's really getting boring to go from one world destroying thing to another, with both sides banding together until the end, only to have a few minutes of going back to fighting eachother Inbefore the NEXT world threatening thing.

The only Interesting time during faction warfare was actually Cataclysm and Mists, as It had the 4th world war that began with Varian declaring war on the Horde after the Lich King was defeated, and even then they were still pretty hostile and had skirmishes around Northrend. It was fun to see the two factions fighting It out on a full scale azeroth level. I'd do anything for a big 5th war that could last a couple of expansions, cause right now all we do Is a few skirmishes around the world and even those are questionably canon (Ashran for example - mostly there for gameplay lets be honest)

So In the end It should continue because once again, If you stop fighting what's the point of War-craft? You know, crafting wars? With other than the queue of world destroying villains that keep appearing every expansion? An expansion like Cataclysm (Despite me mostly hating It) did the whole fighting thing well, we fought around all around the world whilst some were banding together to deal with the real threats, I doubt Garrosh really cared he just tried to conquer the Alliance, we -can- have multiple stories play out at the same time, fighting here, fighting there, hell we could go to another planet entirely with new races, landscapes and things to explore and discover, new chars to meet and old chars to be used again Instead of bumbling around the order hall like random peasents (Looking at you Calia Menethil)

This, and there's another thing: faction conflict is a topic that has been discussed for years. Sylvanas, Jaina and purge of Dalaran, Theramore, Garrosh making Horde great again - these are things that are still discussed even today. The fact that it has been going on for so long means that neither side has conclusive arguments that would make them right. I think it shows that Blizzard was atleast partially successful in creating morally grey story with the faction conflict. And then you have the big bads. Does anyone even remember Sha or Lei Shen? Or how pathetic the Iron Horde was? The clusterfuck of lore that was everything Deathwing related in Cataclysm? Going through lore forums, it seems like nobody really cares about Void Lords either. The "big bad" lore has been the least interesting part of WoW since WotLK.

[susaku]

I think another issue is that, unless you want WoW to be a full on PvP experience, the faction war can't hold up centerstage for too long, it's an inherant issue with MMOs such as WoW to give people the imputus to play. We all know how well forcing people into doing what they don't want to do in the game goes in such regard, or atleast what I felt for it, looking at things like the PvP quests put straight into what was in essence a quest for a legendary only properly functioning in PvE. Sure, you could try and have PvE raids to do PvP scenarios, but then the issue becomes how to properly do it, everyone wants to do their raiding. How are you going to explain lorewise that you are assaulting your own faction, without resulting to "banding with the enemy" again? Making seperate raids for the factions? Talk about sinking money.
I'm all for more faction conflict, but it needs to be better written. The faction war was, for me, at it's highest by the end of Cataclysm, and throughout MoP. After that, it's been silly to keep on going. At the current state, where it's in essence "angry Worgen dad vs a fucked up undead elf", I cant take it anymore seriously than, as mentioned above, the arguably forgettable expansion bads.

[Nathanyel]

Basically, the Horde and the Alliance will never be friends in our (characters') lifetime, but they can and should be allies.

[Deleted]

The problem is that Vanilla or pre-vanilla, there was a serious reason for the Alliance-Horde conflict: territorial dominance, race survival and resources.

But to be really honest, all this was gone in TBC. A little spark of conflict for territorial dominance in Cata.

What happened after? And why now the conflict seems rather illogical?

Set aside for a moment the fact that we are often facing world wide threat. Let's focus on Alliance and Horde. What is the fuel for conflict? None of the above. Right now what we have? Genn vs Sylvanas and a missing Jaina. That's all. It's no more Alliance VS Horde. It's Character VS Character. Maybe, and jyst maybe, Race VS Race.

That's why the conflict is not interesting. Because only a tiny % of Alliance and Horde themselves feels this urge to fight. And this is not just a player feeling, but also a in-game feeling. The large majority of Race leaders do not wish or feel the urge to fight anymore.

[DemoBytom]

The problem is that Vanilla or pre-vanilla, there was a serious reason for the Alliance-Horde conflict: territorial dominance, race survival and resources.

The only reason we got the Horde-Alliance conflict in Vanilla was because Blizz wanted 2 faction game. To cater to the Orc vs Humans crowd. There was literally no reason to divide the races into those 2 factions, especially after W3 and TFT..

And currently we still have it because of the 2 faction system, which I don't see going away. Even if it would make so much more sense storywise, but the backlash from the community would prolly be too big.

Personally I'm tired of the faction ping-pong ball..
W3 - we need to band together to stop Archimonde
TBC - we need to band together to stop Kil'jaeden
Wrath - we need to band together to stop Yogg'sarron/Lich King
Cata - we need to band together to stop Deathwing
MoP - we need to band together to stop Garrosh
WoD - we need to band together to stop Iron Horde
Legion - we need to band together to stop the Legion..

Oh come on. How many more times will Blizz make neutral factions, just to dance around the fact that Ally vs Horde still is a thing, gameplay wise. Did we really need Cenarion Circle to bridge the factions in Cata? Argent Crusaders in Wrath etc?

[Deleted]

The only reason we got the Horde-Alliance conflict in Vanilla was because Blizz wanted 2 faction game. To cater to the Orc vs Humans crowd. There was literally no reason to divide the races into those 2 factions, especially after W3 and TFT..

And currently we still have it because of the 2 faction system, which I don't see going away. Even if it would make so much more sense storywise, but the backlash from the community would prolly be too big.

Personally I'm tired of the faction ping-pong ball..
W3 - we need to band together to stop Archimonde
TBC - we need to band together to stop Kil'jaeden
Wrath - we need to band together to stop Yogg'sarron/Lich King
Cata - we need to band together to stop Deathwing
MoP - we need to band together to stop Garrosh
WoD - we need to band together to stop Iron Horde
Legion - we need to band together to stop the Legion..

Oh come on. How many more times will Blizz make neutral factions, just to dance around the fact that Ally vs Horde still is a thing, gameplay wise. Did we really need Cenarion Circle to bridge the factions in Cata? Argent Crusaders in Wrath etc?

Yeah i agree, but at least in Vanilla, from a PvP point of view, you also had Battleground "tied" to actual Alliance vs Horde conflict. But also this element now is gone, specially after Cataclysm.

[Zatachi]

Yeah i agree, but at least in Vanilla, from a PvP point of view, you also had Battleground "tied" to actual Alliance vs Horde conflict. But also this element now is gone, specially after Cataclysm.

Dont forget though, even Vanilla was won by a neutral faction. Being the "big bad" was Naxxramas at the time.
Chased away by the Argent Dawn.
But what is logic and good story telling when you can have blind war, if only there was a game for this.... *cough* Warhammer *cough*.


Horde Vs Alliance wasnt the core since the beginning Warcraft 3 (wich was praised for good story telling at every corner i know)
Actually, HvsA was just in the first two games wich are only a small part of the whole picture.

[Nathanyel]

Yeah i agree, but at least in Vanilla, from a PvP point of view, you also had Battleground "tied" to actual Alliance vs Horde conflict.

Vanilla had the fricken Might of Kalimdor - while not a reputation faction in the game, this was the largest joint effort since the Battle of Mount Hyjal in the Third War. While hosted/assisted by the Cenarion Circle, this was the Alliance working with the Horde directly, under the lead of an Orc, no less.

[Nathanyel]

Says someone with a Genn avatar

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

Horde vs Alliance is the core of Warcraft.

It would be like removing the Jedi and Sith from Star Wars.

but the alliance and horde have good guys and bad guys both, sith is all out baddie

[Deleted]

Faction War doesn't work on a MMO perspective, because the status quo needs to be maintained because game purposes. Cataclysm and Garrosh are the main example of it, Alliance players whinned because Blizzard equalized the leveling zones regarding the Horde and Horde players whinned because Garrosh didn't represented the faction they choose to be.

[Rend Blackhand]

but the alliance and horde have good guys and bad guys both, sith is all out baddie

Don't take it so literally, it's just an example of a core fight in the lore.

The point I was making is that there are two core sides always fighting against each other that makes up the core of the story in a series. A better example may have been the Imperium vs Chaos in Warhammer 40,000. No good guys there but that conflict is the basis of the entire warhammer 40k universe.

Star Wars: Jedi vs Sith
Warhammer 40k: Imperium vs Chaos
Warcraft: Horde vs Alliance (or, more accurately, Orcs vs Humans)

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Faction War doesn't work on a MMO perspective, because the status quo needs to be maintained because game purposes. Cataclysm and Garrosh are the main example of it, Alliance players whinned because Blizzard equalized the leveling zones regarding the Horde and Horde players whinned because Garrosh didn't represented the faction they choose to be.

There's no real way of knowing what Horde players thought about Garrosh. The great majority of players don't go on forums. Plenty of players, myself included loved Garrosh.

Maybe Blizzard should do what they do in Runescape and hold community polls every week about stuff and hold them on the blizzard launcher.

[Gelannerai]

Get rid of it. At this point it only holds the game back and makes the players suffer for it.

[huth]

The point I was making is that there are two core sides always fighting against each other that makes up the core of the story in a series. A better example may have been the Imperium vs Chaos in Warhammer 40,000. No good guys there but that conflict is the basis of the entire warhammer 40k universe.

You need to read more books. There's plenty of series were that isn't the case.

[Magnagarde]

Warcraft is all about Horde versus Alliance. The MMO setting ruined that vibe. We need an expansion where there is no "big bad guy", but only the world which the characters live in, with different types of adventures all over it.

If they wanted to go the neutral way, they should've made 3 or 4 factions, instead of just 2. This way they could make factions which work against everyone no matter what, whereas some others would work together. You don't really have much option with only 2 factions.

[Nathanyel]

Warcraft is all about Horde versus Alliance. The MMO setting ruined that vibe.

So you agree that the faction divide has no place in WoW?

This way they could make factions which work against everyone no matter what, whereas some others would work together.

We have always been at war with Eastkalimdor.

[Deleted]

gameplay wise it can be continued with todays tech actually. the overall horde/alliance ratio is reasonably close to 50/50.

so with todays sharding/crz tech, it shouldn't be to hard to implement a world pvp zone which has actual competition over it and reward with WQ/daily hubs etc.

they tried this in the past with wintergrasp/tol barad but that never really worked because most servers are heavily dominated by one faction, but today servers don't really matter anymore, so actual competition could be achieved.

lorewise it makes no sense anymore.

[Yelmurc]

Yes, I think that taking a step back from the major light vs void storyline for a few expansions is the correct path forward. With the end of the Burning Legion the world is contracting. I think spending a few years expanding the lore and conflicts is a good idea.

[Khirok]

I'd rather not. Faction war usually means the Horde winning everywhere while the Alliance gets a half-assed conclusion.

[Santti]

From the perspective of the denizens of the Azeroth, it makes little sense to keep fighting amongst themselves, when seemingly every single cosmic entity wants to tear our planet/titan a new asshole.

However, I'd rather they kept the faction war going, as senseless and dumb as it may be. It's one of Warcraft universe's main themes and pretty much the most important factor of it's identity.