Legion is really delivering on regular new content

[Deleted]

I'm confused , how is ToV/Nighthold/ToS/Antorus only 2 raids?

Hard to understand, huhh?
"but compare this to one year into Wrath of the Lich King we had"

As he did not mention Onyxia, Naxx, EoE, VoA, Chamber of Aspects (Obsidian and Ruby sanctum)

But hey..compare the whole: LK had 16 dungeons, 8 raids... Legion have (so far) 13 dungeons, 4 raids....(including the currently not available instances)

[Aggrophobic]

The content might come more regularly but there is less of it in ever patch and the quality sure took a serious hit.

[Deleted]

Hard to understand, huhh?
"but compare this to one year into Wrath of the Lich King we had"

As he did not mention Onyxia, Naxx, EoE, VoA, Chamber of Aspects (Obsidian and Ruby sanctum)

But hey..compare the whole: LK had 16 dungeons, 8 raids... Legion have (so far) 13 dungeons, 4 raids....(including the currently not available instances)

Not really , it's just comparing in a favourable way , since if your adding Naxx which was released on release u should also add Emerald nightmare and make it a total of 5 raids.

Either way WotLK was years ago and I don't see why people don't understand that making such comparisons is really quite useless...I guess it keeps conversation going though

[Kalcheus]

Hard to understand, huhh?
"but compare this to one year into Wrath of the Lich King we had"

As he did not mention Onyxia, Naxx, EoE, VoA, Chamber of Aspects (Obsidian and Ruby sanctum)

But hey..compare the whole: LK had 16 dungeons, 8 raids... Legion have (so far) 13 dungeons, 4 raids....(including the currently not available instances)

I don't think he mentioned those because they were part of the xpac, not a patch.

[grexly75]

I'm confused , how is ToV/Nighthold/ToS/Antorus only 2 raids?

Don't forget Emerald Nightmare..

Even though WoTLK had nine raids, only Ulduar and ICC were really the only decent ones.. As two of the raids were just retuned classic raids, Naxx 40 and Onyxia 40 so really, WoTLK only had seven original raids..

There must be a reason for the slow reduction of the amount of raids per xpac after WoTLK.. What is interesting is that Legion has / will have the same amount of raids that Cataclysm and MoP had.. WoD was the only xpac to only ever have four raids in the entire xpac..

And as such Burning Crusade had the most original raids with eight in total..

[Deleted]

Hard to understand, huhh?
"but compare this to one year into Wrath of the Lich King we had"

As he did not mention Onyxia, Naxx, EoE, VoA, Chamber of Aspects (Obsidian and Ruby sanctum)

But hey..compare the whole: LK had 16 dungeons, 8 raids... Legion have (so far) 13 dungeons, 4 raids....(including the currently not available instances)

lk 8 raids are you on meth?
LK had Ulduar, ToC, ICC and the dragons, and that's all. Naxx is just a reskin and few new mechanics of already done bosses, the first batch of relaunched shit they gave to the people (same thing that most people complain about in new expansions). ¿VoA? that was free loot bosses with 2 mechanics, not a raid.
Not counting Naxxramass as it is obviously a vanilla raid, LK had 14+1+1+1+5+12+4 for a total of 38 bosses (i'll take in account VoA only because it is new content as shitty it is). Legion so far has 7+3+10+9+11 for a total of 40 bosses.
Get your heads out of your asses having 40 1-boss raids dont make an expansion good.

Just to clarify LK was good but the PvE content was lackluster as fuck. Only Ulduar and ICC where proper raids.

[Deliverer]

Because they are delaying content. So far we've gotten:

- Broken Shore World Quests
- Tomb of Sargeras
- Invasions
- Cathedral of Eternal Light
- Class Quests
- Argus World Quests and Zones

So that is 1 raid and 1 dungeon, 1 zone that was already in the game but fleshed out with World Quests, 3 smaller zones with World Quests and a small story and invasions (new world quests) and class quests for every class to get their mount.

That's a good amount of content, but compare this to one year into Wrath of the Lich King we had:

- Ulduar
- Argent Tournament dailies
- Trial of the Crusader
- Trial of the Champion
- Icecrown Citadel
- Forge of Souls
- Pit of Saron
- Halls of Reflection

That's 3 raids, 4 dungeons and daily quests in Icecrown. So Legion probably had more outdoor content, but Wrath clearly had more dungeon and raid content. Now Legion will still have one more dungeon and one more raid, but it's not out yet, the dungeon will be available next week and the raid in a few weeks and even then that only brings it to 2 raids and 2 dungeons. Still loses compared to Wrath.

what about NH and the end of nightfallen campaign?

- - - Updated - - -

lk 8 raids are you on meth?
LK had Ulduar, ToC, ICC and the dragons, and that's all. Naxx is just a reskin and few new mechanics of already done bosses, the first batch of relaunched shit they gave to the people (and most people complain about for dooing it in new expansions). ¿VoA? that was free loot bosses with 2 mechanics, not a raid.
Not counting Naxxramass as it is obviously a vanilla raid, LK had 14+1+1+1+5+12+4 for a total of 38 bosses (i'll take in account VoA only because it is new content as shitty it is). Legion so far has 7+3+10+9+11 for a total of 40 bosses.
Get your heads out of your asses having 40 1-boss raids dont make an expansion good.

If this guy count VoA, you might aswell count world bosses. So how many raids we had? 30 in Legion?

- - - Updated - - -

Hard to understand, huhh?
"but compare this to one year into Wrath of the Lich King we had"

As he did not mention Onyxia, Naxx, EoE, VoA, Chamber of Aspects (Obsidian and Ruby sanctum)

But hey..compare the whole: LK had 16 dungeons, 8 raids... Legion have (so far) 13 dungeons, 4 raids....(including the currently not available instances)

Onyxia are you for real? then we got BT timewalking in Legion which have around 10 bosses compared to onyxia which is only 1... VoA had what 4 bosses and was the equivalent of world bosses which we have so many atm like 20+

[Sencha]

It is good as it is a change of scenery but the content is the same. We are just doing more of the same. World quests

This. If you like doing collect x, kill y quests every day, Legion is made for you.

[Kokolums]

And yet per blizzard subs are barely ahead of wod. Content was never the problem.

[TheVaryag]

Feels like every month there's a new patch being released or info about a future patch being released with mini patches in the interim, though I wouldn't call the entire Chromie adventure mini. Even if I take a month break or at most 2 I know it won't be longer than that.

Don't worry It's just an Illusion of content. If you count X.X.5 patches as content you're silly btw, most of the "Content" In there you can't do right away and Is overtime, they might as well be unnamed random X.X.X.X.X.X patches, they just make them out to be a bigger deal than some random X.X.X.X.X patch.

And I've got bored of Broken Shore In a month, which Is not a bad runtime but all I did was do the same old world quests while waiting for LFR timegating to stop, and when KJ was available a few weeks later It's like "NEW PATCH" and that's like... huh?

Chromie adventure seems like a pointless timewaster I tried to give Blizz credit that they made an Interesting story thing but I watched Nobbel or someone do It on Youtube and storywise... we still don't know who killed Chromie or wanted to, there's no mystery to solve there cause It wasn't -solved- so big minus to Blizzard and you know It's Blizz so they won't give us an answer on that until 10 years from now or so.

And It's not every month, are you silly, It's like 3-4 months and we barely get anything but the same 80 % rehashed stuff from the last patch. Argus Is 50 % go kill rare mob and the rest Is just the other kind of WQs

[rda]

And It's not every month, are you silly, It's like 3-4 months and we barely get anything but the same 80 % rehashed stuff from the last patch. Argus Is 50 % go kill rare mob and the rest Is just the other kind of WQs

Yeah, I also don't get this "constant stream of content" shit.

After a year, we got 7.1, 7.2 and 7.3. Actually, half of 7.3 because it is going to spend a couple more months just unlocking. But let's even pretend it's all here - this is exactly how it was before, up to x.3 after a year.

And 7.2 was complete shit and wasteland, and 7.3 is a similar wasteland so far.

Where's that development team that was supposed to be doubled in size? There's no sign of it.

[Deliverer]

And yet per blizzard subs are barely ahead of wod. Content was never the problem.

I mean, noone knows exactly how many subs wow has atm, but that doesn't mean they should not deliver quality content, and Legion is miles ahead of WoD in terms of content and things to do in game. I couldn't care less about the subs, so far it looks like wow is still worth it for blizzard since they are focusing a lot on it, after WoD came out I thought they were focusing their efforts elsewhere.
I think so far it's the expansion that kept me occupied the most between main and alts, and quality of content is on par with MoP.

[CaptainV]

Call this complaint constructive rather than whiny but legions biggest flaw is that its a whole load of nothing.

The time gating is its biggest achilies heel, yes we get new content but all of it is locked behind forced time gates to make it feel artifically longer and more paced.

In other words, in reality, the patches are roughly the same size as many previous ones. When you consider that 7.3 is more or less a heavily PVEcentric 5.2 with more time gating and less regular content to do.

Long story short...

Legions content hasnt been that exciting or fun, and quite honestly, hasnt been that rewarding.

[Heavens Night]

Feels like every month there's a new patch being released or info about a future patch being released with mini patches in the interim, though I wouldn't call the entire Chromie adventure mini. Even if I take a month break or at most 2 I know it won't be longer than that.

Yea if you call world quests and constant AP grind regular new content.
I call it mind numbing garbage.

Blizzard ran out of good game design ideas a long time ago. All they push now is time retention bullshit.

[Soeroah]

That list comparing Wrath and Legion also seems to be missing the Karazhan dungeon.

[grexly75]

Let's not forget that ToC is easily considered one of the worst raids to date. There are some people who disagree, but it is WIDELY regarded as the worst raid to date.

But really to answer your post - It's obvious why there's a slow reduction of content.

>Faster expansions - They've been touting this goal since BC. Despite what people think, you can't have tons of content spread over time AND faster expansions. That content will be expansion content long before it ever comes out this way.

>Higher expectations - This has always been the case, but more prevalent since Wrath, people have higher expectations of the game as a whole. Bigger baddies, more detailed cutscenes, more world ending consequences... It's the biggest game, therefore the highest expectations are placed on it. We used to be happy with a patch that had a small zone update (not even a new zone) with time-gated rewards (locked behind a currency tied to a daily - Argent Tournament, in case anyone is wondering) and a single dungeon. Now we have an entire zone being unlocked week by week and we're upset about it.

>More constrictions - This one is more debatable, but as more lore is revealed to us, Blizzard is actually digging their own grave. In BC/Wrath, they could play with ideas that weren't entirely fleshed out and leave the rest to the imagination. Nowadays, we know all the rules to that idea long before it's even relevant to the story, so if something contradicts it, we're already hounding Blizzard for answers. (Case in point: Demon resurrection. Though it had been hinted at minorly, until Legion, we had no proof that any demon aside from Nathrezim could resurrect at all. Then we were told they have to be killed in the Nether, but Archimonde is dead despite us watching him die on Draenor. Then we were told it had to be in the Nether "or someplace heavily saturated with Fel", despite Illidan dying in the Fel-saturated Black Temple and still being ressurrectable. Now we're told it's tied to the Argus World Soul, and that when Antorus is over, demons won't be able to ressurrect anymore.) The story possibilities aren't growing - They're shrinking, and if they just make something up, it'll seem shoehorned in to keep the game going - They need to tie it into already existing story first.

You have nailed it on the head with your second part on higher expectations, in that if it does not meet up to the communities "standards" then all hell breaks loose so to speak..

And as for your last part that is a big problem and probably one reason Blizz want to tie up the overall Legion story arc entirely with this xpac, so they can begin a new so to speak with the next xpac since we have no real idea what it will be about.. And as such they could pull new story out of thin air with the next xpac..

[anon5123]

The pacing sure has changed, and it does feel better, but it also makes it harder to draw comparisons to previous expansions where they simply released content in large batches. Not too sure how positive I feel about stretching the opening of Argus over 3 weeks either.

Would you prefer it to be 12 weeks with just 1 new quest every week, like broken shore?

[Zenfoldor]

I 100% agree, I don't think any xpak has ever delivered this much content this late in the cycle at this quality. It is by far the best the game has ever been imho. My friends who would have quit long ago last xpak are still playing. My guild is still healthy, it's amazing.

I have a friend who is like a lot of posters here. They like to play, you know, 6-8 hours a day on a game. It is unreasonable to make your pacing the pacing for the community and it is unreasonable to expect a game you pay 15 dollars a month for, to provide you 6-8 hours a day of quality fresh gameplay. You got to a console game or most any other PC game that isn't made by blizzard, or some cheap f2p steam bullshit that is actual garbage(yeah, I see what you are playing when you aren't playing wow, and it is shit). 5 hours for a 60 dollar game. Resident Evil, for example. Your BEST game like Horizon is like 30 hours, you get 3 days of gameplay for your 60 bucks at your non-gated pacing.

You end up playing filler games. You will forget all filler games in time. Ark. Gone, give it a few months. Even games that are really popular like PUBG will be long dead before WoW starts taking a serious hit to content.

WoW is the best value for your money, and the best time you probably can have if you play a few hours a day(not 6-8).

You should REALLY unsub if you don't like it. I mean, really. You won't though, because as much as you bitch about it, you really love the shit. Oh yeah. You are still playing, aren't you? Deal with it. Blizz please don't change a thing.

[rda]

A HUGE thing that is constantly missing in all these comparisons with previous expansions like WoTLK:

For some reason people defending Legion think that if WotLK did 1000 quests and 15 instances and Legion did the same, it's a tie. No, it is not. It is MUCH EASIER to create this type of content in 2017 than it was in 2009. It's as if you looked into D1 and went: gee, only 3 classes, gee, I wouldn't have played it, D3 has more. Believe me, if we got a time machine and went to D1 time, you would have played it and you would have praised it for having 3 classes. D1 guys were working their asses off adding them and adding many of the things you now take for granted. Things cost time and effort and someone has to spend it. If D1 guys didn't work as hard as they did, D3 guys wouldn't be able to do even half of what they have, they would have had to invent and implement 200 different things that D1 did for them.

For Legion to be on par with WotLK in terms of development effort / and yes, player satisfaction as well - it has to deliver not just significantly MORE content of all types in current circulation than previous expansions, but it also has to do MULTIPLE BIG NEW things they didn't do. New things of the scale of achievements, transmog, phasing.

Legion does not have nearly any big new things. And the amount of traditional content it does have is not impressive either. The comparison with expansions from 8 years ago should be ridiculously skewed towards Legion - yet it absolutely isn't, old expansions actually did MORE than Legion in many key areas.

It is completely evident that the amount of development effort on WoW has been scaled down to maybe a third of what it was. They are only doing what's easy, just what they think is enough to keep the game going. They no longer believe in WoW. It is a dead project in Blizzard with no perspectives.

[SoulSoBreezy]

And yet per blizzard subs are barely ahead of wod. Content was never the problem.

Yeah, time is.
Let's not hold any illusions that WoW's been on the decline due to reasons, one being old as hell. WoW's interesting because its sub pop is/was large enough to reasonably measure over the course of over a decade. So to say that the decline has slowed over the course of a few years because of one expansion delivery is telling. /spin