Do you think there is any chance they ever bring 10m raiding back?

[Aggrophobic]

You can 10 man raid, just not in mythic. Flex raiding makes this possible.

Anything but mythic is just free loot though.

[Alvito]

I've had more 10 man guilds fall apart than 20/25man guilds

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It wasn't "all of a sudden". They had plenty of time to either recruit or just merge with another guild that had the same progression, or close to it.

You are over estimating the ability to do any of those things. The fact that some servers don't have any mythic kills in Legion while content is current speaks towards that.

[Spotnick]

Only reason I miss 10 man mythic raiding is for alt runs.. it's impossible to get 20 people to do an alt run.

And well, we get so much loot out of raids these days that my alt is already 932 ilvl from heroic, and not much else to do than run heroic for titanforge chances.

I already said the solution was to make dungeons flexible 5 to 10, and if you had more dungeons like Karazhan, that would be a winner.

Just because tier raids are 20 man doesn't mean you can't do 10 man instances as well, just different bosses.. like Zul'gurub and Zul'aman back then.

[Kikazz]

No. You say that because you are in a guild that did not have the right mentality from the get-go.

25 man (and 40 man for that matter) was the progression difficulty for what, 5 years?

If you are finding it a "logistical nightmare" your guild's leadership is simply lacking.
It is harder to organize and maintain for sure, but nothing that should seem daunting.

I've been leading the same guild since mid wrath and if they ever took away large group raiding I would probably stop raiding all together.

Raiding with 10 just does not feel the same.

yes 40 man and 25 man did exist, but if they didnt have enough raiders to do those difficulties, they could still drop it to a 10 man version and do the MOST difficult content.

only the past 2 expansions were you locked into a set amount of people to do the most difficult content.

with 25/40man you had the fallback of a 10 man group.

[chronia]

You are over estimating the ability to do any of those things. The fact that some servers don't have any mythic kills in Legion while content is current speaks towards that.

Is this US or EU, as i'm playing on the 2nd lowest ranked EU English server and even we have 5 guilds with alteast 1 mythic kill in ToS and all the 9 lower ranked servers also seem to have atleast 1 guilds with atleast 1 Mythic kill ToS.

[Kikazz]

It's never relatively the same, for the majority if its lifespan 10HC raiding was a joke. There's only a handful of encounters that were on par or even more difficult than 25ppl versions of them.

And when it comes to M raiding it's a big problem.

they can blame that one what? poor dev design?

but to punish the players who cant commit to the few raid times that have Mythic Raid groups?

with a 10 man variation more people would be able to do the content.

there is no denying that.

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Are you serious?

25H was a joke... You could literally have 3+ people die and still easily complete most encounters. If even one person went down in 10H it was pretty much a wipe...

The only thing hard about 25H was maintaining a roster. And that was a guild's own choice.

you Could see them use the same excuse now with Mythic, someone dies on some fights its a wipe if you havent chugged the boss enough.

[Lahis]

You can already raid in 10 man groups.

[Temp name]

You are over estimating the ability to do any of those things. The fact that some servers don't have any mythic kills in Legion while content is current speaks towards that.

Guild mergers benefit both guilds. If your guild couldn't find another guild to merge with, it's either because literally no other guild on the realm was good enough for you, or the officers didn't try hard enough.

[f4ncybear]

People didn't react that bad to ToV being made with existing assets. They should take ToV model, make it 10 and drop these instances between big raids.

[Deleted]

10 man means a 2-2-6 setup. That's 6 DPS spots for 24 DPS specs, and I'm ignoring the fact you will want some ranged and melee. Due to individual class balances and certain things specific classes bring, 10 man mythic raiding will kill mythic raiding for a whole bunch of DPS specs.

Besides that, 10 man basically doubles the amount of mythic raiding guilds, but halve the amount of tanks available to them.

[blackops2008]

Actually, objectively, 10H was much easier overall. I can give you examples of encounters that were loot pinatas in 10 manH and while you could rez 3 people in 25(and 1 in 10), you don't classify encounter difficulty based on available CRs. The 2 biggest factors that made 10m H so much easier was Vengeance and dps requirements being lower, but many encounters were easier simply because they had far fewer mechanics happen. If you prefer, we can go encounter by encounter from the start of 10H to SoO.

If Blizzard would reintroduce 10 man M raiding now, it would probably collapse most(if not all) 20 man structures. When they added it in WOTLK/Cataclysm, there was still a sense of identity for guilds(and a question of prestige), but now I just can't see who would raid the higher number format.

rofl, most SoO fights were harder on 10man, the only fights 25>10 man in difficulty was malkorok and paragons mostly. Dark shaman, spoils, thok, blackfuse and garrosh were harder on 10hc.

Most of them 25 man could ~cheese~ mechanics that 10 man couldnt because setup flexibility.

[Deleted]

rofl, most SoO fights were harder on 10man, the only fights 25>10 man in difficulty was malkorok and paragons mostly. Dark shaman, spoils, thok, blackfuse and garrosh were harder on 10hc.

Most of them 25 man could ~cheese~ mechanics that 10 man couldnt because setup flexibility.

It's been literally 4 years from that and 3 years since only 20 exist so please stop this shit.

[TOM_RUS]

Really hope they scrap this 20 man garbage and return true 10 man mythic raiding.

[Raelbo]

If you want to raid, then you can do so with any raid size from 10 to 30. If you want to raid competitively there is a standard format: 20 man.

No, you can't have your cake and eat it. If you're serious about competitive raiding then the issues that make a fixed format unappealing largely fly out the window.

[theburned]

Imo bringing 10 man raiding would be a step back.

[TrueAbstract]

I wish! Or maybe they could just change raid size from 20 to 15. With 20 people in raid, you don't feel like a team. Additionally, finding 20 DECENT people is way harder than finding 10 decent raiders. Anyway, they said that 10mans + 25mans were a mistake, so I don't think that they will ever go back...

[Morssoe]

Why mythic is not flexible?

[Spryte]

Doubt it. Never thought I'd say it, but I sure hope we get it back! Fuck the perfect tuning and the fighting between 10vs25, couldn't give a shit as long as it's in the same area as the other difficulty.

Vicious cycle of Roster issues sucks; not enough raiders = no progress, no progress = no (decent) recruits. Since ToS our guild killed KJ HC and has had enough for ONE night on Mythic so far. Every recruit has basically just joined as a free ride to KJ and ends up being sub-par or we lose someone else due to boredom or some other shit in the process.

I miss the days of picking raiders for the fight/night and making people work for their spot instead of invite everyone 'cos there isn't a raid otherwise. It's currently a raider-picks-guild situation now, not the other way around.

It is a brutal cycle, and I have no idea how you really escape it. You either don't raid or you get people that cant perform up to the standards required. Then even if you recruit good players, they start to leave either because you miss raids or the performance in raids is shit because you have people that can't move out with quills even if you tell them 5 times but are just there to get the numbers up to 20. Then you get so desperate for recruits that you have to take anyone, and you end up with people with 2/9 HC exp come in, get carried to a KJ kill, get some loot then leave. If you're real lucky you'll get told by them they want a better guild even though their highest raiding experience before you was getting declined to HC pugs.

Its honestly a loss/loss situation.

[Jimson]

Why mythic is not flexible?

Specifically because it's a challenge to design an encounter at its hardest difficulty for a range of participants. If Mythic was flexible there'd be an "ideal" composition for each boss.

[Hotsforyou]

Thats the #1 thing I want out of the next expansion. I would love for real proper 10m progression to come back. Not sure why Blizzard ever got rid of it in the first place, it was easily the more popular raiding format.

This right here. Absolutely my #1 on things i want back. I am so tired of fighting the recruitment boss its not funny. Makes the game just un-fun trying to maintain a 20 man roster.