Is argus no flying?

[sionus]

Is argus no flying like Timeless isle or do you have to get a new rep before you can enjoy the game again?

Why ask a question like that when you could log in and find out yourself? Or do you not even play the game, only looking to stir up people?

[rda]

They got content out far quicker AND of higher quality in those days.

Hahahaha. Higher quality. You got a couple of reasons to grind the same miniscule amount of content a thousand times. That's it.

It is pretty easy to get content out quick when you don't have to do anything except what's piss easy to do.

Ie, you release a dark green desert with some mobs, do a quest chain with 12 parts, then forcefully put a week between each part and call that "biggest patch ever"! The Legion way! (And hey, if they put *two* weeks instead of just one between each part than the delay between this BS and the next such BS would have been even smaller! Content getting released even quicker! Someone should suggest this to Blizzard. Free praise for absolutely no effort.)

[Deleted]

Hahahaha. Higher quality. You got a couple of reasons to grind the same miniscule amount of content a thousand times. That's it.

It is pretty easy to get content out quick when you don't have to do anything except what's piss easy to do.

Ie, you release a dark green desert with some mobs, do a quest chain with 12 parts, then forcefully put a week between each part and call that "biggest patch ever"! The Legion way! (And hey, if they put *two* weeks instead of just one between each part than the delay between this BS and the next such BS would have been even smaller! Content getting released even quicker! Someone should suggest this to Blizzard. Free praise for absolutely no effort.)

If you actually stopped to read and consider your response properly you will note I speaking in the past tense.

[Noxina]

because geting rewards is fun for majority of playerbase .

its simple as that - if content is not rewarding its ignored by anyone besides most hardcore neckbeards.

But getting to a place is part of the adventure, the adventure that in the end rewards you. Sure, killing a few monsters here and there isn't rewarding, but it is a part of the game (or was, a long time ago, when traveling in the game actaully felt like a World.).

[rda]

If you actually stopped to read and consider your response properly you will note I speaking in the past tense.

Damn. You are right. Apologies, I was too quick and misread what you wrote.

[Hctaz]

If you mean grinds, I would like to have them. But I would like to have them in addition to lots of original content, not instead (right now it is more or less "instead").

I mean I can agree with you on this. I'm not trying to say you're a bad person or whatever, but I'm just trying to let you know that flying is not going to solve any of these things you're complaining about. Blizzard is just going to factor in flight when they decided how much of a grind is enough.

But anyway: What grinds bother you specifically? For me it's legendary items, AP, and titanforging but this is coming from a mythic raider who only really enjoys raiding and the initial completion of the story. I enjoy doing the lore quests once but then I'd like to just log in three nights a week for 4 hours as that is when my guild raids.

[satimy]

Why do everything have to be rewarding? And I believe everything you loot in Legion have a chance to drop legendaries? A friend of mine got one from one of those treasure chests.

All I am saying is that this game isn't World of Warcraft anymore, there is no world to experience. People rush from A to B, and doesn't give a rats ass about what is between them, they only see "stuff" that slows them down from reaching their goals.

People don't give a rats ass because all of the stuff in their way is just fluff and serves no purpose

[SirCowdog]

(Now, if you do disagree and think they are keeping flight off because of some BS reasons in the blue text, I can give you a full run down on it and show TONS of places where they do something completely different from what they say and where they do exactly nothing to promote their super-great supposed "vision". And then we will see that their "vision" does not really manifest in anything and perhaps it appears only when they have to justify something in the form of these BS blue posts. While what they are really doing shows plentifully that yes, they want to slow you down, this is one more way to slow you down, and there's nothing more to it, it's money, money, money and more money from extra months from slowing down and from not doing more content because - hey, you are still riding from point A to point B and so they can wait with "unlocking" point C and can omit doing point D.)

Pretty much this. I'm not even going to break down all the places where what a blue poster says isn't carried out in Blizzard's actions.

And that pretty much sums up the entire debate: Some people believe anything that's written in blue as though it's gospel, while others look at what Blizzard's actions and conduct.

[-Joker-]

Now, your opponent is saying that they are disabling flying in order TO SLOW PEOPLE DOWN. Because they are charging per month. And if people are slow, then they spend MORE months for SAME amount of content. And pay Blizzard for longer = more.

Do you disagree with this? Because if you don't disagree or don't have any big opinions there, then you are done. You agree on the most important points in this all debate. Flying is good, they are taking it away because this slows you down and allows them to do less content and all that brings them more money.

(Now, if you do disagree and think they are keeping flight off because of some BS reasons in the blue text, I can give you a full run down on it and show TONS of places where they do something completely different from what they say and where they do exactly nothing to promote their super-great supposed "vision". And then we will see that their "vision" does not really manifest in anything and perhaps it appears only when they have to justify something in the form of these BS blue posts. While what they are really doing shows plentifully that yes, they want to slow you down, this is one more way to slow you down, and there's nothing more to it, it's money, money, money and more money from extra months from slowing down and from not doing more content because - hey, you are still riding from point A to point B and so they can wait with "unlocking" point C and can omit doing point D.)

I don't believe they are slowing people down solely to extend subs. I personally, truly believe that they want to make COMBAT the focus of WARcraft, and not just bypass that core mechanic with the use of flight. I agree. I believe every player should have to experience the world as it was created/designed, and really get a feel for the world again, and not just lift off, land, and kill. Or, lift off, AFK be safe.

Part of what they are trying to recapture is the world before the Cataclysm. Think back to your first character. I will use mine as an example. There I was, a Gnome warrior. Not a coin to my name, no addons, and no real knowledge of Azeroth. As I quested, I would have to AFK from time to time, whether it was the phone or the door. I had to get creative, make sure I was in a safe spot. A hillside, a small building, or on the road near a guard. I was forced to use the world around me to keep myself safe.

Broken Isles, and Argus are no different. We are strangers to this place. We don't have the ability to just lift off and go AFK. Now we have to hide out in a cave, or a mountain side, or around the corner on a strange or distant shore. While I do love flight, I also believe that flight on Azeroth essentially ruined that feeling of fearing the world. There was a time when the sound of multiple murlocs scared the crap out of me. Then heirloom gear came along and now I can sit and kill 20 at a time as a clothie and barely lose any health. Heirlooms have ruined questing.

Now, there are those who would say, "Just quest without them" and I do. I know how to add my own level of challenge. But, as unpopular as my opinion makes me, I agree with Blizz that flight really does trivialize combat in the game. It's World of WARcraft, not World of BIRDcraft. We are supposed to be on the ground, fighting bad guys and monsters, and making our way across the map in epic questing style. Unfortunately, Cata came along and made Flight paths pointless, and took away the epic feeling of flight because we started out in the air, instead of earning it like we did in TBC and Wrath. As someone who LOVES flight, I don't feel it is good for the game. I believe it is "convenient" and makes the game more enjoyable for people who love to fly, or are always in a rush, but I can't say that flight is good for the game.

It is good for certain players.

[netherflame]

"We can say buzz phrases like "the genie is out of the bottle" all day, but it doesn't get us anywhere. I think it's been well acknowledged that we are still open to the idea of flight or we wouldn't have flight in any content at all, no? We've moved to meet the community in the middle - that's what Pathfinder has been about. Earn your wings: show you've achieved completion of the content overall and you can fly."

Thanks for siding with those who aren't delusional and expect handouts.

[Mad_Murdock]

"We can say buzz phrases like "the genie is out of the bottle" all day, but it doesn't get us anywhere. I think it's been well acknowledged that we are still open to the idea of flight or we wouldn't have flight in any content at all, no? We've moved to meet the community in the middle - that's what Pathfinder has been about. Earn your wings: show you've achieved completion of the content overall and you can fly."

Thanks for siding with those who aren't delusional and expect handouts.

I get handouts. I spec tank and ignore 99% of the content. In fact, because of the "Tanks are immune to just about everything" I've pretty much limited my play this Xpac to classes that can be tank spec, some of them I don't even get the Artifact weapon, just spec tank, float through the mobs and respec on arrival. So the work is only for the pleb classes who don't have an "easy mode" spec

I actually disagree that tanks specs should get a free ride, but I guess this was Blizz idea to get more people to tank. I assume it must have worked, because tanks are still immune on Argus.

[hyphnos]

"We can say buzz phrases like "the genie is out of the bottle" all day, but it doesn't get us anywhere. I think it's been well acknowledged that we are still open to the idea of flight or we wouldn't have flight in any content at all, no? We've moved to meet the community in the middle - that's what Pathfinder has been about. Earn your wings: show you've achieved completion of the content overall and you can fly."

Thanks for siding with those who aren't delusional and expect handouts.

Why is having a mode of transportation available asking for a "handout"? They gave up NOTHING with pathfinder and they gain massive amounts of "player engagement" and "hours played" to report to Wall Street by delaying flight and making travel and terrain stupidly tedious and totally at odds with any kind of reality.

Pathfinder isn't a compromise, it's a pretend compromise that gets them exactly what they want and then some. Inflated player stats while flight is gone due to increased travel time, increased player stats while people do shit they wouldn't normally do to unlock flying and apparently now, inflated player stats by taking flight away after milking the increased player time for pathfinder in the first place.

All in all there is one winner, ATVI. The loser, any player who doesn't have an infinite amount of free time to donate to ATVI's quarterly reports.

[-Joker-]

They gave up NOTHING with pathfinder

They gave up the option of taking one entire expac (WoD) from start to finish without flight. They eventually caved with 6.2.2 and offered it up as a way to convince players to return to complete, or to stick around and work on it. Had they stuck to their guns, there might have been no flight in WoD, or Legion for that matter.

"At this point, we feel that outdoor gameplay in World of Warcraft is ultimately better without flying. We're not going to be reintroducing the ability to fly in Draenor, and that's kind of where we're at going forward."

- Source

That was May of 2015. That decision would be reversed 90 days later, for WHATEVER reason. But, had they successfully stuck to their guns, there would be no such thing as a Pathfinder, and there would be ZERO flight on Draenor, Broken Isles, OR any future expacs. Pathfinder is their compromise to not just completely remove flight and give everyone the finger in the process. Do I agree with No flight ever moving forward? No. Am I ok with a Pathfinder? Yes. It was nice to feel like I earned something again, instead of just throwing gold at it. Like the difference between having the mount drop after years of trying, or just spending 400k gold at the BMAH to buy it.

[netherflame]

Why is having a mode of transportation available asking for a "handout"? They gave up NOTHING with pathfinder and they gain massive amounts of "player engagement" and "hours played" to report to Wall Street by delaying flight and making travel and terrain stupidly tedious and totally at odds with any kind of reality.

I'm going to just take my helicopter to the top of Everest because climbing it myself would be "tedious." Theres nothing wrong with the travel or terrain once you pay attention and learn where the paths are. Sorry you can't run from point to point in a straight line.

Pathfinder isn't a compromise, it's a pretend compromise that gets them exactly what they want and then some. Inflated player stats while flight is gone due to increased travel time, increased player stats while people do shit they wouldn't normally do to unlock flying and apparently now, inflated player stats by taking flight away after milking the increased player time for pathfinder in the first place.

Oh so they are making players pull up their bootstraps and earn something, man what a terrible idea!

All in all there is one winner, ATVI. The loser, any player who doesn't have an infinite amount of free time to donate to ATVI's quarterly reports.

An "infinite amount of time" the day pathfinder was possible to get I had it just through normal course of play.

[-Joker-]

I'm going to just take my helicopter to the top of Everest because climbing it myself would be "tedious." Theres nothing wrong with the travel or terrain once you pay attention and learn where the paths are. Sorry you can't run from point to point in a straight line.

Oh so they are making players pull up their bootstraps and earn something, man what a terrible idea!

An "infinite amount of time" the day pathfinder was possible to get I had it just through normal course of play.

As did I. Careful mate. The entitlement in this thread is real. Watch out.