Communism is alive and well

[araine]

I'd rather have free markets

No such thing. what you consider free markets is nothing but oligarchs looking to kill you if they can make profit on it, for profit companies bribing officials to get laws into place that damages YOU isnt a free market

[Stelio Kontos]

No such thing. what you consider free markets is nothing but oligarchs looking to kill you if they can make profit on it, for profit companies bribing officials to get laws into place that damages YOU isnt a free market

And even if that's true, it's STILL better than communism.

That's how bad communism is.

[igualitarist]

No such thing. what you consider free markets is nothing but oligarchs looking to kill you if they can make profit on it, for profit companies bribing officials to get laws into place that damages YOU isnt a free market

Yet, the freer the market, the more developed is the country. Go figure out why

[Vash The Stampede]

Well, anyone with half a brain could tell you that it's not a good idea to kill all private industry and leave your nations income solely reliant on one resource.

Anyone with half a brain will tell you they didn't have that much private industry. Venezuela was 70% private industry, with 80% of people working for that industry. They were essentially 70% capitalist. Here, look it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._public_sector

Venezuela is currently 20% public. How many countries are above that? Sweden is 28%, and last I heard they haven't fallen apart. Norway is 34%, Ireland is 24%, Denmark is 35%. All more socialized than Venezuela and all doing well financially. They also don't financially depend on oil prices.

Venezuela is used as an example of why socialism is bad to curb public interest, but ignore the fact that many more countries in Europe are in fact far more ahead than Venezuela in socialism. It's a strawman.

[PosPosPos]

Anyone with half a brain will tell you they didn't have that much private industry. Venezuela was 70% private industry, with 80% of people working for that industry. They were essentially 70% capitalist. Here, look it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._public_sector

Venezuela is currently 20% public. How many countries are above that? Sweden is 28%, and last I heard they haven't fallen apart. Norway is 34%, Ireland is 24%, Denmark is 35%. All more socialized than Venezuela and all doing well financially. They also don't financially depend on oil prices.

Venezuela is used as an example of why socialism is bad to curb public interest, but ignore the fact that many more countries in Europe are in fact far more ahead than Venezuela in socialism. It's a strawman.

There's also something extremely ironic for the alt-right to preach to us about having "half a brain".

[Theinquisition]

There's also something extremely ironic for the alt-right to preach to us about having "half a brain".

Hey your back. Two things...

1. How am I alt right?

2. Do you have any evidence to support the accusations about fake injuries that you keep lobbing at me.

K thx

[Deletedaccount1]

Anyone with half a brain will tell you they didn't have that much private industry. Venezuela was 70% private industry, with 80% of people working for that industry. They were essentially 70% capitalist. Here, look it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._public_sector

Venezuela is currently 20% public. How many countries are above that? Sweden is 28%, and last I heard they haven't fallen apart. Norway is 34%, Ireland is 24%, Denmark is 35%. All more socialized than Venezuela and all doing well financially. They also don't financially depend on oil prices.

Venezuela is used as an example of why socialism is bad to curb public interest, but ignore the fact that many more countries in Europe are in fact far more ahead than Venezuela in socialism. It's a strawman.

That's not an accurate measure. The number of companies operating in Venezuela dropped from 13,000 to 4000 from 1999 to 2016. That number you are citing predates the crisis and looking at raw percentages of where people are employed means little when unemployment is almost 30% and everyone is underpaid on top of extreme shortages of common goods and 100% inflation.

Another problem with voting in a Marxist-Leninist and giving them complete control of your economy is that they will pursue policies that virtually every economist thinks is terrible (price controls, dismantling companies and firing expats, expropriating industries and protectionism) and would not happen unless the scope of power, not the just the size of government, is increased.

[Lartok]

Ah communism the current record holder for most innocent people slaughtered.

You spelled Colonialism incorrectly.

[Forogil]

You spelled Colonialism incorrectly.

No, communism is spelled communism - and it seems colonialism hasn't killed as many.

In the 20th century colonialism only killed 50 million or so - communism about 140 millions.
Pre-20th century the numbers are less clear - but colonialism seems to have killed "only" an additional 40 million; because pre-20 century there weren't that many people around especially not before the first green revolution that started in Europe (but it is difficult to get accurate numbers - states that kills normally don't keep track of their victims).

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

- - - Updated - - -

Venezuela is used as an example of why socialism is bad to curb public interest, but ignore the fact that many more countries in Europe are in fact far more ahead than Venezuela in socialism. It's a strawman.

Wrong - Venezuela was seen as a shining example a few years back - a literal poster child for Socialism (by Socialists that don't view Europe as Socialist).

That's why Venezuela is a socialistic example, because socialists used it as a positive example, and now the true face is showing and most of the praise of Venezuela's Bolivarian revolution has stopped, and many try to hide the history of socialistic praise. The problem in Venezuela includes disregard for democracy (the parliament has been replaced), a ruined economy - both by state owned enterprises and private companies being indirectly controlled by government goons, crime, and food-scarcity.

[Deleted]

This is what happens when authoritarianism takes hold of any country. Most Venezuelans were happy under Chavez who pointed to the aggressive capitalism as reasons for problems, so it won't easily be removed from their minds as Maduro appears to be as much aligned to aggressive capitalism as anything else. Many people there didn't recognize the shift to authoritarianism...just like what is happening in the US now.

You know whats funny? When people say Government appropriating private property and companies is capitalism.

- - - Updated - - -

Venezuela is currently 20% public. How many countries are above that? Sweden is 28%, and last I heard they haven't fallen apart. Norway is 34%, Ireland is 24%, Denmark is 35%. All more socialized than Venezuela and all doing well financially. They also don't financially depend on oil prices.

Venezuela is used as an example of why socialism is bad to curb public interest, but ignore the fact that many more countries in Europe are in fact far more ahead than Venezuela in socialism. It's a strawman.

No, it's not. Because you see, Norway and Denmark ARE dependant on Oil Prices, quite a bit. Another thing is how the OECD and ILO works with these countries, they are not socialist because the government does not own the means of production.

Socialism is just communism with a "Friendly" face.

[Deleted]

Communism favors the poor and mediocre people at the expense of brilliant ones, that would either get killed, imprisoned or flee the country. Ofc they replace the brilliant citizens with party suckups that bring little to no value, just sucking up to the dictator/political party.

[Bryntrollian]

pic is a little bit reversed but you can turn your head

Looks a little better if you do it that way, dont you think?

[Unhinged]

Yet, the freer the market, the more developed is the country. Go figure out why

Funny how Australia and New Zealand are more free than the USA but have dirty socialist programs like healthcare and wealthfare not to mention far tighter controls on banks and companies.

- - - Updated - - -

Communism favors the poor and mediocre people at the expense of brilliant ones, that would either get killed, imprisoned or flee the country. Ofc they replace the brilliant citizens with party suckups that bring little to no value, just sucking up to the dictator/political party.

Yoi do inderstand that isn't true communism right. The reason why communism never works is because of humans. Humans are the problem and whilst involved in the equation it will never work.

[Najnaj]

Funny how Australia and New Zealand are more free than the USA but have dirty socialist programs like healthcare and wealthfare not to mention far tighter controls on banks and companies.

- - - Updated - - -



Yoi do inderstand that isn't true communism right. The reason why communism never works is because of humans. Humans are the problem and whilst involved in the equation it will never work.

But it has the highest "economic freedom score"!! What ever the hell that is.


You are somewhat wrong on communism btw. It works amazing, just not all by itself. It is the checker keeping capitalism from taking the plunge into feudalism. The rise of modern western civilization goes hand in hand with the rise of trade unions and socialized government programs. If you want to know what capitalism looks like on its own all you need is a history book. It was THE system for most of human history in one incarnation or another.

[Deleted]

Yoi do inderstand that isn't true communism right. The reason why communism never works is because of humans. Humans are the problem and whilst involved in the equation it will never work.

So what's the point of the system then, if time and time again it's proven communism can't function in the real world? Let's build robots, and introduce them communism...

[Toogoodman]

so much better to have people so fat they need vehicles to carry themselves into walmarts

I love when people try to justify people starving

"you dont need more food than the government tells you"

The only true equality is when everyone has nothing, also i find it funny how many people post about communism being awesome from their ipads, iphones, mac books, nice cameras... etc. Believe it or not, almost non of those items would exist if every country was a communist country, because their would be no entrepreneurs to make start ups to make them lmao, not only that, if this type of tech did exist it would be shitty state made versions, but i highly doubt in the collective they would be able to allocate this tech to every single person within the collective.

[igualitarist]

Funny how Australia and New Zealand are more free than the USA but have dirty socialist programs like healthcare and wealthfare not to mention far tighter controls on banks and companies.

- - - Updated - - -



Yoi do inderstand that isn't true communism right. The reason why communism never works is because of humans. Humans are the problem and whilst involved in the equation it will never work.

Funny how you failed to look at the "whole picture". Try to open up a business in Australia and later, try to open up a business in Venezuela. I am pretty sure after this experiment you will know the difference between a free economy and an economy strangled by the government. Or you can just google it for the sake of convenience.

You are also committing the very common mistake of thinking free healthcare (which third world shitholes like my country also have, not only capitalist paradises) and free market as opposed things. No, they are not, as long as you allow private health care to also exist.

Another common mistake is that you see the free market concept as an absolute thing, so a country is only free market based if, lets say, theres no regulations. Really, theres noone that defends absolute free market other than anarchocapitalists, which are almost inexistent.

In the end, you make another common mistake of saying that communism never works because humans... LOL. This idea that communism is too good or evolved for humans is just bizarre. In fact, communism ignores all the principles of economics, thats why it never works.

[Vash The Stampede]

That's not an accurate measure. The number of companies operating in Venezuela dropped from 13,000 to 4000 from 1999 to 2016. That number you are citing predates the crisis and looking at raw percentages of where people are employed means little when unemployment is almost 30% and everyone is underpaid on top of extreme shortages of common goods and 100% inflation.

Yes but what % was Venezuela employment public vs private? Makes sense to see what it was before the crisis because that's what caused it. Cause again, America has 16% of it's industry in the public sector which is only 4% bellow Venezuela.

To call Venezuela socialism is ignoring a lot. They certainly want to be more socialist, but in reality Denmark is far more ahead in socialism.

- - - Updated - - -

No, it's not. Because you see, Norway and Denmark ARE dependant on Oil Prices, quite a bit.

Everyone is dependent on oil prices, but when the price of oil goes up the economy of Denmark and Norway go down. Incidentally, when the price of oil goes up then the economy for Venezuela goes up. Norway for example does export nearly as much oil as Venezuela but it doesn't dominate their economy like Venezuela. Denmark doesn't export any oil at all practically.

[igualitarist]

But it has the highest "economic freedom score"!! What ever the hell that is.


You are somewhat wrong on communism btw. It works amazing, just not all by itself. It is the checker keeping capitalism from taking the plunge into feudalism. The rise of modern western civilization goes hand in hand with the rise of trade unions and socialized government programs. If you want to know what capitalism looks like on its own all you need is a history book. It was THE system for most of human history in one incarnation or another.

Except that what we have nowadays that resembles feudalism is communism. Look at North Korea and Cuba, for example, they are nothing but feuds of Kin Jon-Un and Castro families.

Basically the people there work for the government (feudal lord), and this goverment tell them what the should eat and how much they should eat, if they step out of the line they are executed, and they basically give up on all of their freedom in exchange for the government protection.

But hey, lets look at history: What was the thing that started to destroy the feudalism ? Yeah, the rise of bourgeoisie. Those evil guys who managed to get rich through trade and thus, challenge the power of the feudal lords.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes but what % was Venezuela employment public vs private? Makes sense to see what it was before the crisis because that's what caused it. Cause again, America has 16% of it's industry in the public sector which is only 4% bellow Venezuela.

To call Venezuela socialism is ignoring a lot. They certainly want to be more socialist, but in reality Denmark is far more ahead in socialism.

- - - Updated - - -


Everyone is dependent on oil prices, but when the price of oil goes up the economy of Denmark and Norway go down. Incidentally, when the price of oil goes up then the economy for Venezuela goes up. Norway for example does export nearly as much oil as Venezuela but it doesn't dominate their economy like Venezuela. Denmark doesn't export any oil at all practically.

Before Chavez, about 60% of venezuelan exports were based on oil. Nowadays its 95%. Basically other industries in Venezuela are pretty much dead.

Just check these charts:

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/visual...all/show/1998/
http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/visual...all/show/2015/

Also, shortage of products in Venezuela were already a thing even when the oil price was on its peak. Take a look at the price of oil in 2011 and the news about Venezuela in that year:

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=4550
http://www.eluniversal.com/economia/...mption-in-2011
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/13/wo...ges/index.html

[Unhinged]

Funny how you failed to look at the "whole picture". Try to open up a business in Australia and later, try to open up a business in Venezuela. I am pretty sure after this experiment you will know the difference between a free economy and an economy strangled by the government. Or you can just google it for the sake of convenience.

You are also committing the very common mistake of thinking free healthcare (which third world shitholes like my country also have, not only capitalist paradises) and free market as opposed things. No, they are not, as long as you allow private health care to also exist.

Another common mistake is that you see the free market concept as an absolute thing, so a country is only free market based if, lets say, theres no regulations. Really, theres noone that defends absolute free market other than anarchocapitalists, which are almost inexistent.

In the end, you make another common mistake of saying that communism never works because humans... LOL. This idea that communism is too good or evolved for humans is just bizarre. In fact, communism ignores all the principles of economics, thats why it never works.

Lol maybe ypu sbould learn to read. No where dis i even mention or talk about Venezuela so why on earth are you comparing it to Australua. I only mentioned USA as a comparison. It was a point more to show that cpuntries that tend more to the socialist side tends to have better economic feedom than those that don't.

Economics is a human construct, communism couls worl in theory but with curremt humam nature and corruption will never work.

Also you are a simpleton if you think Venezuela is a good argument for why socialist policis are bad, if anything it is moving towards becoming an autocracy.