Legion is really delivering on regular new content

[Tradu]

If you like the way wow does hard PvE content there isn't really a viable alternative. Yes I've tried them. Thing is most other stuff is optional or can be skipper through pretty easily at this point.

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It's not really a silly question considering the amount of whining and bitching that goes on on these forums. There is a reason mmoc is a laughing stock these days

Agreed on the first part, but I don't agree that "most stuff" is optional.

Yeah, and it's because of the Blizzard whiteknights and bad players/bad advice, primarily. At least in the circles I frequent.

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No it's not silly. Because 90% of people, WITH GAMES, makes a choice. To play if they like it. To not play if they don't. Then we have Mmo-Champion, where people play a game and complain about it everytime and for every little thing.

That's why people ask, and it's a legittimate question.

Think about someone who always complain about his job and how muck it sucks. The first things it comes to mind is: "If he hate it so much, why he do not change?".
BUT, you NEED work to live, but you DO NOT need a video game. So yeah, the poor worker maybe is stuck with that work for a living, but you can always and anytime change video-game.

Again, sorry to be repetitive, it's a legitime question, specially to someone who play a game only if he likes it (nothing is perfect so this argument is kinda poor).

Sure, but people wouldn't be complaining about the game(for whatever reason) if they didn't care about it(and likely care about it because they enjoy playing it). That's my issue with the "if you don't like X, just don't play the game" argument.

[Deleted]

Agreed on the first part, but I don't agree that "most stuff" is optional.

Yeah, and it's because of the Blizzard whiteknights and bad players, primarily. At least in the circles I frequent.

People come here whining and bitching because of white knights? That sounds excessively stupid

[Tradu]

People come here whining and bitching because of white knights? That sounds excessively stupid

No, the site has become the laughing stock of most other communities thanks to the huge amount of whiteknights who defend literally anything Blizzard does.

[Deleted]

Agreed on the first part, but I don't agree that "most stuff" is optional.

Yeah, and it's because of the Blizzard whiteknights and bad players/bad advice, primarily. At least in the circles I frequent.

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Sure, but people wouldn't be complaining about the game(for whatever reason) if they didn't care about it(and likely care about it because they enjoy playing it). That's my issue with the "if you don't like X, just don't play the game" argument.

So you really have the courage to say that here on Mmo-Champion there is not a overwhelming amount of thread of mindless whining, even multiple thread a day about the same topic?

Sorry, but here we have constructive criticism and here we have Mmo-Champion.

And about the "i whine about what i care". Image if in real life you constantly whine about things you care. You shuold whine no stop 24/7. Sometimes you just accept things the way they are if you really care about them or like them.

[Deleted]

No, the site has become the laughing stock of most other communities thanks to the huge amount of whiteknights who defend literally anything Blizzard does.

Oh. Well. I see them. Definately. I don't think they are any worse then the whiners and bitchers. In my mind it's much easier defendable to white knight something then it is to spend years hating something instead of moving on.

[Tradu]

So you really have the courage to say that here on Mmo-Champion there is not a overwhelming amount of thread of mindless whining, even multiple thread a day about the same topic?

Sorry, but here we have constructive criticism and here we have Mmo-Champion.

And about the "i whine about what i care". Image if in real life you constantly whine about things you care. You shuold whine no stop 24/7. Sometimes you just accept things the way they are if you really care about them or like them.

Sure, there's both whining and whiteknighting, but the whiteknighting is the most frustrating to deal with(even if I agree with the whiteknights about some piece of content), because at least most of the whiny people can agree on some good points of X piece of content, where a lot of the whiteknights can't.
And it's not a question of constantly whining about things you care about, the point is that if there's something you care about that's changing for the worse(in your eyes), you're much more likely to say so than if you don't really care.

[Deleted]

Sure, there's both whining and whiteknighting, but the whiteknighting is the most frustrating to deal with(even if I agree with the whiteknights about some piece of content), because at least most of the whiny people can agree on some good points of X piece of content, where a lot of the whiteknights can't.
And it's not a question of constantly whining about things you care about, the point is that if there's something you care about that's changing for the worse(in your eyes), you're much more likely to say so than if you don't really care.

On the top of my head I can name 3 whiners who are active on this site that would be hard pressed to find anything they like about current wow.

I can't name a single white knight who won't acknowledge any downsides to wow ATM. Not saying they don't exist I just don't know them

[Deleted]

Sure, there's both whining and whiteknighting, but the whiteknighting is the most frustrating to deal with(even if I agree with the whiteknights about some piece of content), because at least most of the whiny people can agree on some good points of X piece of content, where a lot of the whiteknights can't.
And it's not a question of constantly whining about things you care about, the point is that if there's something you care about that's changing for the worse(in your eyes), you're much more likely to say so than if you don't really care.

Well of course you prefer people you can agree with.....
But the initial point is about the question. And you really thinks it's not legitimate? I mean ok, i can open a thread about X thing i don't like. Then i open another. Then another. Then i post how much i dislike one thing in another thread. And again. And again. And usually, those people almost never talk about what they enjoy about the game. Of course the question "Why he still play" comes to mind.

And about "whiteknight". First of all it's stupid to call people like this. There is people in world who likes to eat shit, so i don't see why it's surprising that someone can like WoW in every aspect. Second if they like Blizzard decision providing a reason, why that is whiteknighting? Because you disagree with them? Remember always this words from Torquato Tasso: "S'ei piace ei lice", in other words, if you like something you are legitimate to like it. You can't judge taste in short.

[Tradu]

And about "whiteknight". First of all it's stupid to call people like this. There is people in world who likes to eat shit, so i don't see why it's surprising that someone can like WoW in every aspect. Second if they like Blizzard decision providing a reason, why that is whiteknighting? Because you disagree with them? Remember always this words from Torquato Tasso: "S'ei piace ei lice", in other words, if you like something you are legitimate to like it. You can't judge taste in short.

When their reason is literally "this problem doesn't affect me, so it's not a problem at all", that's not valid argumentation. If they like some piece of content that I don't like/don't care about, fair enough, but that's not the case for the people I'd consider whiteknights.

[Deleted]

When their reason is literally "this problem doesn't affect me, so it's not a problem at all", that's not valid argumentation.

And again you completely read only one part of my post and ignore that i wasn't talking about a single case (probably nerf reading your post) but about WoW in general. Of course noone like to see his class nerfed. But maybe it's only changed and someone can like the change or not. For example i like the fantasy of Demo Warlock in Legion and i didn't like the Metamorph one. Does this make me a whiteknight?

And yeah that argument is poor, but it's also poor the way around. "Fuck you Blizz no fly i unsub".

And sadly what you are quoting is what people in real life think the majority of time about way more serious issue.

[Deleted]

I haven't. I mentioned them.


Nope. Karazhan is a huge dungeon, that's why you can separate it into 2 parts.
All 3 ICC dungeons in themselves are dungeons in their own right. Forge of Souls has 2 bosses, Pit of Saron has 3 bosses and Halls of Reflection has 3 encounters. That would be a total of 8. That is way more than the average dungeon has. Most dungeons in Legion have between 3-5 bosses.

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Part of 7.0
We were talking about patch content. Now you can say that NH wasn't in at launch, but that is just because they delayed it. Emerald Nightmare wasn't in at launch either, cause they delayed it. They've been delaying raids since MoP. But they are still part of the launch content. They don't count as patch content. Otherwise all newer expansions would have more patch content, simply because they have less launch content.

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And? Argus has staggered content. Antorus won't be out until weeks, so that makes it even more than 13 months.

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2 raids in patches. We were talking about patch content. If we compare launch content I would also have to mention Naxxramas, Vault of Archavon, Obsidian Sanctum, all the other dungeons etc. on the Wrath side.

Nope, it was split when turned to hc and M+ as well but basically it`s 1 dungeon split into 2....You can`t call BRD 4 dungeons just because different runs in different sections exists (emperor run, jail run, rings of law run....etc) not even if blizz physically split them

[Deleted]

Nope, it was split when turned to hc and M+ as well but basically it`s 1 dungeon split into 2....You can`t call BRD 4 dungeons just because different runs in different sections exists (emperor run, jail run, rings of law run....etc) not even if blizz physically split them

I never said Karazhan was 2 dungeons.

[Deleted]

F*** YEAH! And I love it! Argus is my favorite content patch since Thunder Island in MOP much <3 to Blizz. I didn't think I will come back to legion, but here i am!

[Zeusy]

Legion is pretty good. Comparing legion and WOTLK is really hard to do for a lot of reasons. (which i see tons of people doing in this thread)

In 2017 you have content sped up like x30 of what you did in wotlk.

wotlk:
-LFG didnt come till half way through
-AH realms only
-you had to play through every old thing to get to the new stuff until very much later when they let you buy later stuff with badges from previous stuff. (similar to BC, kara - > ssc - > BT until SWP came out, then isles + vendors in shatt changed a bit)
-Legendary system was different,
-PVP + pvers were mixed in raids
-community was different, guilds would interact with each other massively because cross realm stuff didnt exist, and more pugs happened and current content was done way more without a desire for new stuff (outside of the 15 year period of ICC, it was amaazing but lasted forever).
-time gated stuff didnt really exist outside of the legendary system

Legion:

-AH overlapped on realms
-grouping - LFR/LFG etc etc make content get burned through at a much faster pace
-Legendary system different (personally i hate it but not everyone can be happy)
-gearing- done WAY faster and with a ton of more options to do it. WQ/heroics/mythics/raids/LFR/pugs ;casually and hardcore
-content depth + class interaction (class halls etc) increased drastically
-PVP arena got trashed and really sucks now, prestige system is great though ( but this game isnt about pvp anyway lol)

my opinion?

The time periods are just different, the direction is different. It caters to a different playstyle and group of people (with overlap)

The lore, the content, the producing by blizzard is all top tier in legion. It will be impossible to ever reach the TBC/Wotlk standards of the general WoW population who live in old times because of the direction/pacing changes.

The content WOTLK had took INSANELY longer to blow through despite it being less. This is more of a 2017 issue than blizzard. They are just moving their direction to fit the population.



How do i like legion vs wotlk?

Legion is great, i quit because i dont like how legendaries changed ( I enjoyed helping a guildie spend months to get that super wep that felt amazing to see on them, again this wouldnt be possible in a quick, give me now, i want one too time period), nor how mythics worked, or how catchup systems on gear work. Old raids are dead (this isnt new to legion, after mop i hardly played anymore, just for beginning of xpac) because you can do a WQ or mythic and skip all of it.

As well as that I also dont like the direction social interaction took. Guilds dont even matter anymore outside of the very top content, the rest you can treat every person you go by like a robot and never talk to anyone. Anytime ive found people interacting or attempting to people dont care and just say lol item lvl and move on. This didnt exist in WOTLK because realms all interacted with each other and you would get really shit geared people interacting with high geared because people genuinely cared.



TLDR: legion vs wotlk shouldnt be an argument - its evident that blizzard has produced insane amounts of content in legion, it goes above every other xpac, pretty sure on that. The argument should be on the pace of the game + gearing + social interaction difference between now and then. (a lot of 2017 tech didnt exist, or couldnt work in wotlk/bc days) if you swapped legion + wotlk time places, im pretty sure we would be having the same argument just flipped.

[Dragon ANX]

TLDR: legion vs wotlk shouldnt be an argument - its evident that blizzard has produced insane amounts of content in legion, it goes above every other xpac, pretty sure on that. The argument should be on the pace of the game + gearing + social interaction difference between now and then. (a lot of 2017 tech didnt exist, or couldnt work in wotlk/bc days) if you swapped legion + wotlk time places, im pretty sure we would be having the same argument just flipped.

I really wish that in 8.0 Blizzard give guilds some love.

[Zeusy]

I really wish that in 8.0 Blizzard give guilds some love.

After lfr/lfg addition and legendaries revamp from bc/wotlk/cata style, guilds felt really disconnected imo. People feel no obligation or connection and leave willynilly. Maybe thats a small % of peoples view on it, maybe its more, really not sure at all. Ive always heavily supported people who stick in a guild as 25/10mans for long periods of time and were rewarded so and not just from realm/world first kills (hence why i supported wotlk/cata legendaries greatly)

[TheFirstOnes]

Work on your reading comprehension.

When you have no comeback, and you decide to make fun of someone's reading, then you sir are a Dreadlord yourself.

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Legion is pretty good. Comparing legion and WOTLK is really hard to do for a lot of reasons. (which i see tons of people doing in this thread)

In 2017 you have content sped up like x30 of what you did in wotlk.

wotlk:
-LFG didnt come till half way through
-AH realms only
-you had to play through every old thing to get to the new stuff until very much later when they let you buy later stuff with badges from previous stuff. (similar to BC, kara - > ssc - > BT until SWP came out, then isles + vendors in shatt changed a bit)
-Legendary system was different,
-PVP + pvers were mixed in raids
-community was different, guilds would interact with each other massively because cross realm stuff didnt exist, and more pugs happened and current content was done way more without a desire for new stuff (outside of the 15 year period of ICC, it was amaazing but lasted forever).
-time gated stuff didnt really exist outside of the legendary system

Legion:

-AH overlapped on realms
-grouping - LFR/LFG etc etc make content get burned through at a much faster pace
-Legendary system different (personally i hate it but not everyone can be happy)
-gearing- done WAY faster and with a ton of more options to do it. WQ/heroics/mythics/raids/LFR/pugs ;casually and hardcore
-content depth + class interaction (class halls etc) increased drastically
-PVP arena got trashed and really sucks now, prestige system is great though ( but this game isnt about pvp anyway lol)

my opinion?

The time periods are just different, the direction is different. It caters to a different playstyle and group of people (with overlap)

The lore, the content, the producing by blizzard is all top tier in legion. It will be impossible to ever reach the TBC/Wotlk standards of the general WoW population who live in old times because of the direction/pacing changes.

The content WOTLK had took INSANELY longer to blow through despite it being less. This is more of a 2017 issue than blizzard. They are just moving their direction to fit the population.



How do i like legion vs wotlk?

Legion is great, i quit because i dont like how legendaries changed ( I enjoyed helping a guildie spend months to get that super wep that felt amazing to see on them, again this wouldnt be possible in a quick, give me now, i want one too time period), nor how mythics worked, or how catchup systems on gear work. Old raids are dead (this isnt new to legion, after mop i hardly played anymore, just for beginning of xpac) because you can do a WQ or mythic and skip all of it.

As well as that I also dont like the direction social interaction took. Guilds dont even matter anymore outside of the very top content, the rest you can treat every person you go by like a robot and never talk to anyone. Anytime ive found people interacting or attempting to people dont care and just say lol item lvl and move on. This didnt exist in WOTLK because realms all interacted with each other and you would get really shit geared people interacting with high geared because people genuinely cared.



TLDR: legion vs wotlk shouldnt be an argument - its evident that blizzard has produced insane amounts of content in legion, it goes above every other xpac, pretty sure on that. The argument should be on the pace of the game + gearing + social interaction difference between now and then. (a lot of 2017 tech didnt exist, or couldnt work in wotlk/bc days) if you swapped legion + wotlk time places, im pretty sure we would be having the same argument just flipped.

I praise you.

[Aeula]

By breaking up major patches and gating them to hell.

There's content but it's not a lot.

[Thelxi]

When you have no comeback, and you decide to make fun of someone's reading, then you sir are a Dreadlord yourself.

When you also lack reading comprehension skills and don't know the difference between an argument and semantics, you sir are another idiot.

[TheFirstOnes]

When you also lack reading comprehension skills and don't know the difference between an argument and semantics, you sir are another idiot.

An idiot? Oh sir, you should watch your tone. Idiot's are pathetic, vile creatures. And just now, people are getting banned like flies.