Argus: Turning a no-fly advocate

[rhorle]

And is for this very reason, among others, that my criticism about the dev´s attitude was spot on. There was no need to show off their arrogance and condescence so clearly.

They were not arrogant or condescending. Which is what I originally stated that lead you on this tangent. It doesn't matter if you asked a question to another player. This is a discussion forum and you made a flawed comment. You keep saying I am contradicting myself when I keep pointing out I am not. You even sling politician like it is an insult and go out of your way to make this argument about sleazy politics, getting caught, and on and and on and on.

You can communicate with out "my way or the highway" while still being in control of the development of the game. The fact that you continue to ignore that shows the toxicity that is rampant with the WoW community. You ignore a simple fact because it doesn't allow you to hate on Blizzard or the developers. Yet you devote time and effort to insult a player because they have pointed out how ignorant or basic concepts you are. Nothing I have said is hyperbole full or half. A projection. Or an outright falsehood. You keep using words with out understanding their meaning and intended usage. Again a sign of the toxicity that exists in the community.

The final nail in the coffin however is that you agree with what I say in the first line of your response while taking the entire rest of the post to bash me for what you just agreed to.

[felrager]

If I had a dollar for every time some prepubescent told someone to grow up on these forums...

Good thing i'm 34. Glad i could prevent you from getting a dollar. Grow up.

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Yeah, becuase realism is what they are going for, eh? Someone already had a thread about this but we would have been swarmed with millions and millions of demons the second we set out foot on Argus if that was what they were going for.
Gameplay over realism any day and the gameplay is not fun.

When a game is no longer fun the designers failed.

Oh and we would still be able to fly if they were going for realism. Can't see any anit-air defenses small enough to hit our dragons.

Too bad i find it really fun. I guess the designers didn't fail me.

And really? You want to argue that there would be "way more demons" if they were going for realism but then want to say that there aren't any anti-aircraft guns capable of hitting you on your dragon? Don't you think if they were gonna give us flight and a billion demons they'd just invent anti-aircraft guns capable of hitting us on our mounts? It's almost like you only use half your brain to think through an argument and then just stop before finishing it so that it fits neatly in whatever little box you want it in.

[Aggrophobic]

Good thing i'm 34. Glad i could prevent you from getting a dollar. Grow up.

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Too bad i find it really fun. I guess the designers didn't fail me.

And really? You want to argue that there would be "way more demons" if they were going for realism but then want to say that there aren't any anti-aircraft guns capable of hitting you on your dragon? Don't you think if they were gonna give us flight and a billion demons they'd just invent anti-aircraft guns capable of hitting us on our mounts? It's almost like you only use half your brain to think through an argument and then just stop before finishing it so that it fits neatly in whatever little box you want it in.

My point was that they aren't going for realisim at all. Of course not.

[felrager]

My point was that they aren't going for realisim at all. Of course not.

Your point lost all validity. We're talking about a game they design. If their reason for not having flying is it's a hostile world and we can't fly there, it's their game. Whining about it because it's not how you like it won't do anything. The zones themselves aren't designed for flying. Too many unfinished tops to areas. Would take away from actual content being released for them to make Argus capable of supporting flight. Stop whining.

[Aggrophobic]

Your point lost all validity. We're talking about a game they design. If their reason for not having flying is it's a hostile world and we can't fly there, it's their game. Whining about it because it's not how you like it won't do anything. The zones themselves aren't designed for flying. Too many unfinished tops to areas. Would take away from actual content being released for them to make Argus capable of supporting flight. Stop whining.

Of course I will complain if I feel the service they sell is of poor quality.
It's even worse when it used to be better.

Blizzard needs to know when they are doing a bad job.

[SirCowdog]

You asked a question, I gave an answer, then you tried to be funny.

You can take out the dungeon and raid clear if you want, my main point stands. We should have flying after x content gate or y time gate. I literally just listed what was current argus content for ideas of what could be done.

Aka, you'd of experienced everything that been put in place for Argus and if you'd include the raid clear you'd have you're flying as a little badge to show you'd done it. Blizzard just posted yesterday in a blue post that flying / pathfinder was meant to be a indicator of accomplishment.

And you don't ever think for yourself? You just accept what Blizzard says because they said it?

Ask yourself this: How much of a "reward" or "indicator of accomplishment" Flight is right now. It was only given in content for ~5 months before Blizzard threw it in the trash again. And then they didn't even stick to their own methodology by saying that you wouldn't be able to fly on Argus.

As I said before: People REALLY need to stop listening to what Blizzard says, and REALLY need to start paying attention to what they're doing.

[Connll]

They were not arrogant or condescending.

I suggest you at least try to be convincing when you say something that simply isn´t true

You keep saying I am contradicting myself when I keep pointing out I am not.

This is the corrected statement: "You keep "demonstrating how I am contradicting myself, yet I keep pretending I am not".

You even sling politician like it is an insult

It isn´t, but if you feel insulted by the comparison to a profession integral to democracy, that demonstates how there is something very wrong with your behavior.

and go out of your way to make this argument about sleazy politics, getting caught, and on and and on and on.

I am not sure if you do not know what the expression "go out of your way" means, or if you are making use of hyperbole again. Considering your post history in this thread, I am leaning towards the second option.

And if you don´t want to get caught contradicting yourself, I would suggest you to stop contradicting yourself.

You can communicate with out "my way or the highway" while still being in control of the development of the game.

Yet that dev answering those questions made it abudantly clear that it was "my way or the highway".

The fact that you continue to ignore that shows the toxicity that is rampant with the WoW community. You ignore a simple fact because it doesn't allow you to hate on Blizzard or the developers.

More Projection.

I just need to trade "Blizzard and the developers" for "Flight and pro-fliers" and I´ll have a perfect description of your behavior in this thread.

Yet you devote time and effort to insult a player because they have pointed out how ignorant or basic concepts you are.

Projection again??
Trade that "you" for *I* and we´ll have a perfect description of how you decided to adress me in this conversation.

Nothing I have said is hyperbole full or half.

May I suggest you at least try to be convincing when you say something that simply isn´t true? Once again?

A projection.

May I suggest you at least try to be convincing when you say something that simply isn´t true? Yet again?

Or an outright falsehood.

May I suggest you at least try to be convincing when you say something that simply isn´t true? For the fourth time in a single answer?

You keep using words with out understanding their meaning and intended usage. Again a sign of the toxicity that exists in the community.

Yeah, says the guy who started by equating the question:
"Did that looked like someone trying to make its customers/subscribers/playerbase feel valued and welcomed?"

with "So they can't respond honestly. Gotcha."

Yes, someone definitely doesn´t understand meaning or the usage of words. Or is pretending he doesn´t. I´m not sure.

The final nail in the coffin however is that you agree with what I say in the first line of your response while taking the entire rest of the post to bash me for what you just agreed to.

I will assume that you honestly misunderstood what I said. So allow me to try and make my statement clearer;

*You* said that the devs don´t always communicate, or need to communicate with a "my way or highway Attitude. This is true.
However, You made it very clear that *you* thought that I was accusing them of using that attitude *always*, or almost always. That is false.

However, I was questioning critically the Dev attitude answering those specific questions, in which he definitely, beyond reasonable doubt, was being arrogant and making it very clear, even if not saying it word for word, that it was "my way or the highway",
And since he WAS arrogantly exibiting the "my way or the highway" attitude, my criticism was correct.

In a nutshell:

You accused me of making a generalization;
I answered Yes (a generalization would´nt be OK), thats why I made a specific criticism.

That was not, by a long shot, agreement with your points.

[Eapoe]

Greetings,

I'm strongly in the camp of no-flying but Krokuun and Antoran are really testing me. I'm wondering what's going through Blizzards mind and why they don't seem to be making terrain easier to navigate and are instead making it harder.

As I said I'm generally not bothered by having to explore via ground mounts, but my limits are being pushed when to get to each world quest you have to run over some of the most chaotic and confusing terrain yet while trying not to get dazed off your mount when charging through often unavoidable fields of mobs. Graveyards also seem to be few and far between making corpse runs a pain.

How do you feel about this?

Don't care as I've only ever gotten turned around once in the spider area. Other that that the place has been extremely forward and easy to navigate. Press "M," look at the map for 2-3 seconds, see which hills connect where, and go. I barely even look at the map anymore.
As for dazed? I use a LW Barding if I feel like it's an issue. Honestly, never even was an issue except in the far west of Macaree where there's multiple mobs (3-4 clustered in a tight area) and that was if I ran thru the center of them. Now I use a Barding and run wherever, and it's even better since I started using the out of combat healing perk thru the Vindicaar as I can run thru anything and never dip below 90% health.
Honestly, I don't get how people say Argus is a maze and complain about getting dazed all the time when the map is pretty damn straight forward and there are multiple ways to prevent daze without being a tank.

[rhorle]

*You* said that the devs don´t always communicate, or need to communicate with a "my way or highway Attitude. This is true.

Then I can't be contradicting myself. It is Blizzards way or the way and devs are not required to communicate with that attitude. Those are not contradictions because they are two different subjects. One is Blizzard on design directions. And the other is a dev/employee communicating. One you just admitted is true but still refuse to acknowledge the distinction between the two concepts.

I never once said you have accused them of always using that an arrogant attitude. You are now projecting arguments. Again something you keep accusing me of doing. It is funny how you have done everything you've accused me of doing yet refuse to comprehend that you are. I have accused you of being an example of the toxic community that plaques WoW because you are labeling these specific responses as arrogant when they are not. Just because you don't like them doesn't make them arrogant or a my way or the highway attitude. Orynx even clearly states that he is not required to respond a certain way and instead responds with his opinion.

I think these conversations need to be a two-way street, and the more we have everyone in the community calling the development team closed minded or pointing fingers, the further we get away from amicable understanding within the community. Of course I've always been happy to have those conversations, but whenever they start they very quickly dive into arguing instead of a discussion on the merits of each approach and that's really not something I want to be apart of.

I get why people are upset to have "just earned flying" and now its "taken away".

Your one-liner is nice and all, but I'd appreciate it if you could explain to me why those were "bad decisions" retrospectively.

I don't have to agree with everything we do. I have a personal opinion that I've expressed many times about content throughout Legion and beyond.

Yep that sounds arrogant and my way or the high way to me. /sarcasm.

[Stardrift]

These zones really aren't that bad.. I don't know why any of you are having such a hard time. I had a much worse time on Broken Shore than Argus.

[SirCowdog]

Yep that sounds arrogant and my way or the high way to me. /sarcasm.

I don't think that "Arrogant" is really the right word here. But one thing seems pretty clear: Ornyx seems to have missed the point of a lot of the discussion about flying. Whether or not that was intentional, it DOES make him seem like he's out of touch, or oblivious to player concerns, regardless of statements to the contrary.

• Saying things like "You can still fly on the broken isles" misses the mark and makes him seem uncaring.
• Dismissing the concerns about mob density and over-use of the daze mechanic by blaming players and saying "you're probably not paying attention".
• Literally saying that blizzard doesn't view the complaints about how flying is being handled as an issue.
• Claiming that "I think it's been well acknowledged that we are still open to the idea of flight or we wouldn't have flight in any content at all, no?" is way off, considering that flight isn't actually part of the content at all thanks to Pathfinder.
• Saying "If you're having trouble and finding it difficult to get around and avoid pitfalls, then Argus is working as intended." followed later in the discussion by "I don't think the terrain was made to intentionally impede you by way of making you frustrated..." further makes it seem like he's contradicting himself.

The way the flying situation is being handled and "discussed" by Blizzard reps and devs like Ornyx gives the very strong impression that they really just don't give a shit. And so when they say they DO give a shit it comes across as disingenuous. And if I had to pick one word to describe everything I've seen out of Blizzard on the subject, Disingenuous would be it.

[Connll]

Then I can't be contradicting myself.

Yes you were. And I pointed specifically in which phrase you did. Once again:

You said that that the devs attitude or answers were NOT " my way or the highway, and in the very next phrase you said ""honestly, it is my way or the highway"

One is Blizzard on design directions. And the other is a dev/employee communicating.

The blue posts are blue specifically to demonstrate that a dev *is* speaking for Blizzard there. Try harder.

I never once said you have accused them of always using that an arrogant attitude.

I wonder who said this then, in the post number 778, in this very thread:

Just because Blizzard has the final say on their product does not mean every time they communicate they are saying "My way or the highway".

Weird, huh? Last time i checked, "every time" and "always" ment the same thing.

You are now projecting arguments. Again something you keep accusing me of doing. It is funny how you have done everything you've accused me of doing yet refuse to comprehend that you are.

Your argument, in a nutshell: No, you!

Very convincing.

Yep that sounds arrogant and my way or the high way to me. /sarcasm.

Indeed.

[Charge me Doctor]

So the solution to players complaining about being dazed now and mob density on their way from point A to point B will be solved by knocking them out of the sky and killing them or dropping them into hostile places. Right. That solves the issue completely. You are missing the mark entirely with the reason why people don't like Argus.

Yeah, i doubt that it's a "solution" (because i don't think that there is a problem in the first place, but oh well), people will still whine about not being able to fly, because, effectively, you are still unable to fly but more lore fluff involved

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Of course I will complain if I feel the service they sell is of poor quality.
It's even worse when it used to be better.

Blizzard needs to know when they are doing a bad job.

You not liking stuff and service being of poor quality are two different things... experiencing constant DCs is bad quality, content being not what you want it to be - not a bad quality

[Aggrophobic]

Then I can't be contradicting myself. It is Blizzards way or the way and devs are not required to communicate with that attitude. Those are not contradictions because they are two different subjects. One is Blizzard on design directions. And the other is a dev/employee communicating. One you just admitted is true but still refuse to acknowledge the distinction between the two concepts.

I never once said you have accused them of always using that an arrogant attitude. You are now projecting arguments. Again something you keep accusing me of doing. It is funny how you have done everything you've accused me of doing yet refuse to comprehend that you are. I have accused you of being an example of the toxic community that plaques WoW because you are labeling these specific responses as arrogant when they are not. Just because you don't like them doesn't make them arrogant or a my way or the highway attitude. Orynx even clearly states that he is not required to respond a certain way and instead responds with his opinion.

I think these conversations need to be a two-way street, and the more we have everyone in the community calling the development team closed minded or pointing fingers, the further we get away from amicable understanding within the community. Of course I've always been happy to have those conversations, but whenever they start they very quickly dive into arguing instead of a discussion on the merits of each approach and that's really not something I want to be apart of.

I get why people are upset to have "just earned flying" and now its "taken away".

Your one-liner is nice and all, but I'd appreciate it if you could explain to me why those were "bad decisions" retrospectively.

I don't have to agree with everything we do. I have a personal opinion that I've expressed many times about content throughout Legion and beyond.

Yep that sounds arrogant and my way or the high way to me. /sarcasm.

Did you actually read his posts?
That guy is as unprofessional as always. Not sure why he even has a job at this point.

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Yeah, i doubt that it's a "solution" (because i don't think that there is a problem in the first place, but oh well), people will still whine about not being able to fly, because, effectively, you are still unable to fly but more lore fluff involved

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You not liking stuff and service being of poor quality are two different things... experiencing constant DCs is bad quality, content being not what you want it to be - not a bad quality

True but in the case of Argus it's poor quality.

[SirCowdog]

Yeah, i doubt that it's a "solution" (because i don't think that there is a problem in the first place, but oh well), people will still whine about not being able to fly, because, effectively, you are still unable to fly but more lore fluff involved

I just think it's odd that the same people who praise the current ground-only design think that somehow the second flying is involved, Blizzard will magically forget how to be game developers, and that everything will fall apart into the most shittily-designed content to ever exist. I've even outlined how letting people get shot out of the air would lead to more immersion or convincing explanations for how hostile Argus is, while still allowing for Blizzard to effectively maintain their position.

But of course, none of that applies. Flying is the devil. It's the anti-content. It literally causes code to disassemble and devs to get cancer. :/

[rhorle]

Yes you were. And I pointed specifically in which phrase you did. Once again:You said that that the devs attitude or answers were NOT " my way or the highway, and in the very next phrase you said ""honestly, it is my way or the highway"

Though if you want honesty it is Blizzards way or the highway. It is their product and they are the designers. You can offer feedback and they do listen but in the end if you don't like it leave.

*You* said that the devs don´t always communicate, or need to communicate with a "my way or highway Attitude. This is true.

It is blizzards way or the highway. I didn't not say that they will always communicate with that though. You already admitted that what I said is not a contradiction but continue to fight it. Again a clear example of the toxic nature that is present in the WoW community.

Indeed.

So you agree that it isn't arrogant or my way or the high way. Though I am going to guess you missed the whole sarcasm part since you read only what you want to instead of everything that is there.

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But of course, none of that applies. Flying is the devil. It's the anti-content. It literally causes code to disassemble and devs to get cancer. :/

Because you think that the second flying is involved people won't complain about the same annoyance they do now? If people have similar mechanics to daze now but with flying mounts they would still complain just as much. Because daze would still be a problem with flying mounts. The fact that you have to insult people for pointing this out shows that you really are just a troll that hides behind fancier words then most.

I like you sig as well "If you have to attack a person instead of what they're saying, then you've already lost the argument." Which is what you are doing with these statements. You are attacking the posters instead of what they are saying by claiming we are idiots that believe code will disassemble. Not once did anyone say that so perhaps you should follow your own advice/sig?

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The way the flying situation is being handled and "discussed" by Blizzard reps and devs like Ornyx gives the very strong impression that they really just don't give a shit. And so when they say they DO give a shit it comes across as disingenuous. And if I had to pick one word to describe everything I've seen out of Blizzard on the subject, Disingenuous would be it.

If they didn't give a shit they wouldn't have added in pathfinder. The problem is that you and others won't ever see them as giving a shit. And if flight isn't part of the content at all because of pathfinder why can I fly on the Broken Isle and Broken Shore? Seems a part of the content. This is part of the toxic attitude that exists that I have been referencing. Anything they do is seen as shit because that is all you want out of them.

[Connll]

It is blizzards way or the highway. I didn't not say that they will always communicate with that though.

You seem to be losing track of the conversation. Get back and re-read all of it again, and you will notice that I was refuting 1- YOUR accusation that *I* was accusing them of *always* communicating like that and 2- refuting YOUR defense of their attitude in that QA.

You already admitted that what I said is not a contradiction but continue to fight it.

I explained very clearly that the lone, singular, "yes" there was referring to "generalizations are bad, thats why I criticeized specific points"
And I explained several times already why there was a contradiction.

But if you are so keen on stating things that simply aren´t true, maybe you should at least try to be convincing.

Again a clear example of the toxic nature that is present in the WoW community.

Obviously. I have to quote YOU again and again.

So you agree that it isn't arrogant or my way or the high way. Though I am going to guess you missed the whole sarcasm part since you read only what you want to instead of everything that is there.

Text comprehension isn´t your thing heh? Allow to to clarify. Again.

That "indeed" word you saw? It meant "Yes, that DOES sound arrogant AND "my way or the highway""

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Did you actually read his posts?
That guy is as unprofessional as always. Not sure why he even has a job at this point.

I am not sure is he is reading anyone´s posts

[rhorle]

You seem to be losing track of the conversation. Get back and re-read all of it again, and you will notice that I was refuting 1- YOUR accusation that *I* was accusing them of *always* communicating like that and 2- refuting YOUR defense of their attitude in that QA.

My posts on the topic of blizzard communication did not contain always until you first accused me of it.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/search.p...rchid=50847181

You can refute what I never did all you want. But don't accuse someone else of losing track of the conversation when you do. You keep accusing me of doing the very things you do. That is a prime example of the toxicity that exists in the WoW community. I did say that you insult and insult because you don't like what is being said. If you communicate about Blizzard in the same way you are communicating with me now then I have not missed the mark.

I explained very clearly that the lone, singular, "yes" there was referring to "generalizations are bad, thats why I criticeized specific points"
And I explained several times already why there was a contradiction.But if you are so keen on stating things that simply aren´t true, maybe you should at least try to be convincing.

It isn't true that Blizzard will design the game how they want? It isn't true that employees of Blizzard do not always communicate arrogantly? I have never contradicted myself. The fact that you think one of the things I just mentioned is false shows how out of touch you are and how much you ooze the toxicity prevalent in the community.

Text comprehension isn´t your thing heh? Allow to to clarify. Again. That "indeed" word you saw? It meant "Yes, that DOES sound arrogant AND "my way or the highway""

Again you are guilty of what you accuse someone else of. By responding Indeed to my sarcasm you are actually confirming that the sarcasm is correct. Which means that you were agreeing to them not being arrogant rather then saying indeed that they are arrogant. Text comprehension clearly isn't your thing and your actions prove it more then any convoluted argument for why normal English doesn't apply to you.

[SirCowdog]

Because you think that the second flying is involved people won't complain about the same annoyance they do now? If people have similar mechanics to daze now but with flying mounts they would still complain just as much. Because daze would still be a problem with flying mounts.

Let me make this perfectly clear, because it seems like there's a lot of assumptions flying around(see wut I did thar?): I don't think daze is a good mechanic. I think it's lazy, weak holdover from vanilla when monsters needed something to lock players down and keep them from just running past them and their weak AI. I think that it's been almost 13 years and Blizzard has MUCH better tools at their disposal to create interesting and engaging game mechanics that would challenge both players on the ground and in the air.

And I get REAL sick of every time someone suggests that Blizzard do something good with flight that the first and only response is "DAZING IN THE AIR SUX! TROLOLOLOL!!!!". It's virtually impossible to have a decent discussion about the topic because of how often people immediately assume the absolute worst case scenario for flying. Why? Why is the automatic assumption about flying that it will be dropping mindlessly into ground-based content without thought or intelligence? Why is the default response "dazing in the air would be terrible"?

How about instead of making such assumptions you ask yourself what might be possible if Blizzard applied the same skill, experience, and knowledge to making content that includes flying as they do with the design of ground content.

The fact that you have to insult people for pointing this out shows that you really are just a troll that hides behind fancier words then most.

I like you sig as well "If you have to attack a person instead of what they're saying, then you've already lost the argument." Which is what you are doing with these statements. You are attacking the posters instead of what they are saying by claiming we are idiots that believe code will disassemble. Not once did anyone say that so perhaps you should follow your own advice/sig?

When I say something like I did with the text you quoted, it's because that's EXACTLY how people are treating flight. I can't count how many times I've seen people LITERALLY say that flying ruins MMORPGs, despite evidence to the contrary. So no, I'm not insulting people. I'm insulting their stupid, weak, bullshit arguments. If you can't tell the difference, then I'm sorry you're offended, but it doesn't make my signature wrong.

If they didn't give a shit they wouldn't have added in pathfinder. The problem is that you and others won't ever see them as giving a shit. And if flight isn't part of the content at all because of pathfinder why can I fly on the Broken Isle and Broken Shore? Seems a part of the content. This is part of the toxic attitude that exists that I have been referencing. Anything they do is seen as shit because that is all you want out of them.

It's funny how pointing out a flaw in Blizzard's reasoning and logic is considered "toxic".

So, let me spell it out, because it seems like you're missing the point being made here: Simply being able to fly in content that's already been cleared isn't making flight PART of the content. Did you use flying while questing? Did the unlock of flying ever get included in the story or lore of WoD/Legion? Was flying EVER used as PART of the experience? Is flying part of the character progression? Does it improve with AP, or experience points, or equipment? Do you ever even get access to it when content is still current, or even marginally relevant?

Or instead, was flying simply dropped into the game after the content, story, and lore were already done and over with? This is what I mean when I say that flying isn't part of the content. It's not being used. It's just an afterthought. It's been built up as this big reward that you have to spend time working on to unlock, but once you have it there's maybe 1% of the content(repetitive daily WQs that you've already done hundreds of times) to use it on, and Blizzard IMMEDIATELY goes back to ignoring it with the next content patch.

We're told that this version of flying is "meeting players halfway". What a joke! Blizzard isn't treating flying as part of the content. They're treating it like something they'd rather not deal with, but can't actually get away with removing entirely. And we're supposed to be HAPPY about this?

Let's do a thought experiment. Imagine if equipment or AP was treated the same way that flight is. You go through 8 months of quests, dungeons, rep grinds, and raiding. And only AFTER it's all done, and there's no more content left, do you actually get your AP and gear. Was the gear and AP actually part of the content?

[rhorle]

And I get REAL sick of every time someone suggests that Blizzard do something good with flight that the first and only response is "DAZING IN THE AIR SUX! TROLOLOLOL!!!!".

But that is not how anyone responded here. You saw what you wanted to see in order to justify your words. Why is it that you think people complaining about being dismounted and forced into combat would suddenly not be complaining about being dismounted and forced into combat/death? Why is it that you think just because they are on a flying mount instead of a ground mount that they won't be complaining about the same thing? Being delayed.

I am all for flying having my interaction with the community and have long responded to Blizzard that they could easily make the game respond to players on Flying mounts instead of disabling flying. But in this discussion your idea solves nothing but to switch out ground mount with flying. The same reasons for why people are upset on a ground mount would apply to flying.

It's funny how pointing out a flaw in Blizzard's reasoning and logic is considered "toxic".

It isn't. How you go about it shows the toxicity. Like your "TROLOLOLO!!!" earlier. That is a sign of toxicity that had no place here. You earlier said if someone had worded their response better you wouldn't have acted like a troll towards them. That is toxicity.

So, let me spell it out, because it seems like you're missing the point being made here: Simply being able to fly in content that's already been cleared isn't making flight PART of the content. Did you use flying while questing? Did the unlock of flying ever get included in the story or lore of WoD/Legion? Was flying EVER used as PART of the experience?

I used flight while questing. I made great use of gliders through out Legion. My druid also made great use of flying after pathfinder and used it to quickly level up. My demon hunter uses flight to hit the Demon Invasion WQ for quick and easy XP since I don't play him much. There are also several quests that use flying as part of the quest. Even on Argus we have flight on rails.

And we're told to be HAPPY about this? We're told that this version of flying is "meeting players halfway". What a joke!

It is the version of flying you have always had since TBC. Even then the flying in TBC only had minimal interactions with the environment in locations such as blades edge mountains. So we have established that flying has always been a joke which means you have been ranting about a moot point.