Intels Skylake-X and Coffee Lake CPUs Discussion

[Afrospinach]

Hello. Please educate me to why ice lake will be better then coffee lake. According to this picture (old and seen many times before) coffee lake should have better performance then ice lake and ice lake + (tiger lake?). I see the power goes down in 10nm, but will coffee lake (14nm++) have higher clocks? Im also guessing 10nm+ will have some new features, but honestly I only understand core count and speed on the cores.

Note this is for transistor performance. While the individual transistors may be slower than a refined 14++ process, they will be able to pack more of them in which means it will probably be a faster processor as far as you are concerned. Also, I cannot remember a time recently where the clocks actually suffered in a die shrink. however Intel has rarely ever spent so much time on a node as they have 14nm.

[Lanfear1]

Note this is for transistor performance. While the individual transistors may be slower than a refined 14++ process, they will be able to pack more of them in which means it will probably be a faster processor as far as you are concerned. Also, I cannot remember a time recently where the clocks actually suffered in a die shrink. however Intel has rarely ever spent so much time on a node as they have 14nm.

So the 10nm transistors perform worse then the 14nm++ (1 to 1 according to chart) . They shrink the die a lot, from 14 to 10, yet they fit more of the transistors on the smaller die so the first 10nm outperforms 14nm++

If I didnt know my lack of knowledge, id call that wishful thinking. Ps, ofc I expect 10nm+ to be able, just not the first because it brings so much else to the table. If its true, who would buy coffee lake? (my pc broke so I cant wait for ice lake ) Its even required to get a new mobo that likely will not support a 10nm socket (I mean its a lot smaller after all)

[Life-Binder]

Hello. Please educate me to why ice lake will be better then coffee lake.

arch changes and IPC improvements (Cannon/Ice Lake is a new arch over Skylake)

but yeah the main difference might be lower power and thus less watts/heat for the ~same clocks/performance as Coffee .. this might end up pushing max OC on air/water higher (above 5.0 ?)


thats between Ice Lake (10+nm, late 2018) and Coffee (14++nm)

coffee lake should have better performance then tiger lake.

no, that picture clearly shows that Tiger Lake (10++nm; 2019) will have both greater power efficiency and greater transistor performance over 14++nm

it will be to 10nm what Coffee is to 14nm now

[Evildeffy]

So the 10nm transistors perform worse then the 14nm++ (1 to 1 according to chart) . They shrink the die a lot, from 14 to 10, yet they fit more of the transistors on the smaller die so the first 10nm outperforms 14nm++

If I didnt know my lack of knowledge, id call that wishful thinking. Ps, ofc I expect 10nm+ to be able, just not the first because it brings so much else to the table. If its true, who would buy coffee lake? (my pc broke so I cant wait for ice lake ) Its even required to get a new mobo that likely will not support a 10nm socket (I mean its a lot smaller after all)

That's how die shrinks in general work, the question is if they are moving off of the Skylake/Kaby Lake/Coffee Lake uArch to a new one with 10nm.

They should as 10nm should be a new process but not released on desktop, only low power devices, where 10nm+ will be on desktop.

If your PC is broke you'll be waiting a long time on Ice Lake, since that won't be here before 2019.

As far as mobo support... there's a good chance that whilst Z370 may not support the 10nm+ CPUs the Z390 likely will support the first generation 10nm+ CPUs, but at the same time ONLY the first gen.
This is due to the fact that Z390 will be a Cannon Lake (the first 10nm lithography CPU) PCH (Platform Controller Hub) where Z370 is a Kaby Lake Refresh PCH.

Intel is having a lot of difficulties with 10nm, like extremely difficult, their 14nm yields overall have been rather disappointing for them as well but they are marching on with it, they have the funds for it without issue.

AMD however is skipping 10nm altogether and will be using the 7nm process that was developed together with IBM/GlobalFoundries/Samsung.

Either of these Lithography processes are now entering nano size technology, awesome stuff in general.

[Life-Binder]

Ice Lake is 2018 ( https://www.intel.com/content/www/us.../overview.html )

its been taped in already months ago and its their next desktop CPU line right after Coffee, which by definition means that it will be in 2018 because they release ~a new series per year

its ludicrous to think they wont release anything new for desktop in close to 1.5 years (from October 5-th 2017 to 2019), especially with Ryzen accelerating their plans

[Evildeffy]

Ice Lake is 2018 ( https://www.intel.com/content/www/us.../overview.html )

its been taped in already months ago and its their next desktop CPU line right after Coffee, which by definition means that it will be in 2018 because they release ~a new series per year

its ludicrous to think they wont release anything new for desktop in close to 1.5 years (from October 5-th 2017 to 2019), especially with Ryzen accelerating their plans

Not really, it'd be 1,25 years at most as October is Q4.
Kaby Lake was released Jan 2nd of this year, Coffee Lake @ Oct. 5th if we're lucky (paper launch date means squat, remember Skylake?).

Ice Lake, which SHOULD be an entirely new uArch should be here Q4 2018 - Q1 2019 but unlikely prior to that.
It still takes quite a bit of time from taping out to actual mass production, especially if they find critical design flaws.

It's not ludicrous, it's actually normal to think new uArchs take time especially considering the extreme difficulty Intel is having with 10nm.

You cannot rush uArch design and production as it's far too complex or would you like a repeat of Netburst and Buldozer?

[Life-Binder]

its a new arch, but that arch will just be ported onto 10+nm from the existing low-power only 10nm Cannonlake

and Cannonlake is releasing late 2017/early 2018 (Im not sure when exactly)

[Lanfear1]

.

.

Ok, thank you both.

Can I use my corsair cooler on coffee lake that I used on i5 3570k?
You think I can get 5ghz on the i7 8700k with that cooler?

New architecture sounds soo appealing, you think it will be a big jump compared to differences between previous cpus? Honestly considering buying some dirt cheap old used cpu if thats the case (many people are just happy to get their old build sold ) and my i5 3570k worked just fine

Edit, i thought ice lake was after coffee lake

[Life-Binder]

Can I use my corsair cooler on coffee lake that I used on i5 3570k?

which cooler ?

You think I can get 5ghz on the i7 8700k with that cooler?

nah

New architecture sounds soo appealing

dont expect a big IPC gain from Ice Lake architecture

it will probably be enough to just put Ice Lake ~9700K over 8700K Coffee in perf

i thought ice lake was after coffee lake

it is yes, for desktop CPUs

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for desktop :

Skylake (14nm) --> Kaby Lake (14+nm) --> Coffee Lake (14++nm) --> Ice Lake (10+nm) --> Tiger Lake (10++nm)

[Afrospinach]

So the 10nm transistors perform worse then the 14nm++ (1 to 1 according to chart) . They shrink the die a lot, from 14 to 10, yet they fit more of the transistors on the smaller die so the first 10nm outperforms 14nm++

If I didnt know my lack of knowledge, id call that wishful thinking. Ps, ofc I expect 10nm+ to be able, just not the first because it brings so much else to the table. If its true, who would buy coffee lake? (my pc broke so I cant wait for ice lake ) Its even required to get a new mobo that likely will not support a 10nm socket (I mean its a lot smaller after all)

Cannon lake will be mobile only, ice lake may not be out until the end of next year, that is how coffee makes sense.

On architecture: this is essentially the only avenue left for performance advancement, not wishful thinking. Nehalem holds a record of 7.5 ghz vs 7.3 for Kaby lake, even cedar mill has crested 8ghz and it was a pentium 4. Smaller transistors are not magical. The benefits are lower power consumption and cheaper to manufacture because you can get more chips per wafer, that is about it as far as consumers are concerned. Contrast clock speeds a decade prior to cedar mill's 4ghz shelf speeds and we were talking 200mhz, maybe 266. Cannon/ice lake are a new architecture rather than a rehash and the rumors are somewhat encouraging.

If you transposed kaby lake on to Nehalem's process you might have a processor that is 250w and about half the size of a playing card, that is why they are powerful.

[Lanfear1]

which cooler ?

Corsair H100
http://www.corsair.com/en-us/hydro-s...uid-cpu-cooler

So no 5gz turbo og with that?

Edit, thanks for info

[VooDsXo]

Cannon lake will be mobile only, ice lake may not be out until the end of next year, that is how coffee makes sense.

On architecture: this is essentially the only avenue left for performance advancement, not wishful thinking. Nehalem holds a record of 7.5 ghz vs 7.3 for Kaby lake, even cedar mill has crested 8ghz and it was a pentium 4. Smaller transistors are not magical. The benefits are lower power consumption and cheaper to manufacture because you can get more chips per wafer, that is about it as far as consumers are concerned. Contrast clock speeds a decade prior to cedar mill's 4ghz shelf speeds and we were talking 200mhz, maybe 266. Cannon/ice lake are a new architecture rather than a rehash and the rumors are somewhat encouraging.

If you transposed kaby lake on to Nehalem's process you might have a processor that is 250w and about half the size of a playing card, that is why they are powerful.

That's just wrong right off the rip, Intel consistently sells mobile CPU's for desktop devices, look at the actual i5's from the past few generations and you'll note quickly that there is a few 2 and 4 core variants that are "typically" found in mobile devices with standard desktop sockets ready to go. Some people do not require an immense amount of performance from their PC, and have would prefer something more efficient in terms of power consumption, and the mobile cpu's do that quite well comparatively.

[Life-Binder]

oh, with an AIO like that you might get 5.0 8700K

maybe

need wait reviews to know for sure


I would say that 5.0 isnt 100% guaranateed, but 4.8 definitely is





idk about compatibility though with the socket .. if it isnt then maybe Corsair releases a compatibility bracket ?

[Lanfear1]

oh, with an AIO like that you might get 5.0 8700K

maybe

need wait reviews to know for sure


I would say that 5.0 isnt 100% guaranateed, but 4.8 definitely is





idk about compatibility though with the socket .. if it isnt then maybe Corsair releases a compatibility bracket ?

Hehe you just got my hopes up, 5 is a nice number it boosts to 4.7, though so I dont really understand why it cant overclock more.

Smart thinking, I see they sell brackets, but couldnt find any supporting the new one, and likely wont until its actually released. Again, crossing fingers

Edit, i can allways just Mac Myver it on, but doubt that reaches 5k lol

[Life-Binder]

it can overclock to 5.0 and above of course as far as silicon goes, with higher voltages

but heat will need to be managed

[Afrospinach]

That's just wrong right off the rip, Intel consistently sells mobile CPU's for desktop devices,

I am not the one the classes them as mobile chips, it is Intel. You can put them in whatever you want.

[Life-Binder]

wow, Z390 is only in H2 2018 according to this


if so it might actually be intended to launch with Ice Lake right away as the enthusiast chipset/mobos meant for 9700K/9600K

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too bad Z390 still wont support PCI-E 4.0 most likely


I can only hope at least the chipset (Z470 ? 570 ?) for Tiger Lake will have PCI-E 4.0

[Lanfear1]

too bad Z390 still wont support PCI-E 4.0 most likely


I can only hope at least the chipset (Z470 ? 570 ?) for Tiger Lake will have PCI-E 4.0

What will pci-e 4 give other then no power cable required to gpu? Is pci-e 3 holding back gpu performance?
Sorry for idiot question, just see so many things on horizon regarding cpu's and Im about to buy one

[Life-Binder]

not now, but maybe for Volta or post Volta gen X80Tis it will

I like future proof to be sure


also - more bandwidth for lanes for more NVMe drives

[Life-Binder]

pretty good, considering:

- those are EU prices with VAT
- launch prices which are higher then later prices