Austrian repeat offender gets 18 months for Hitler salute

[Sky High]

If you are from america i wouldn't exactly say its much difference. Especially not because commercial lobbyists are influencing the free speech, like the Ag-gag laws.

Uh what? When it comes to freedom of the press yeah, but not in cases like this.

[IIamaKing]

Recent parades waving the nazi flag and lock-stepping to the Nazi salute would seem to refute that claim

Carrying a flag(while stupid) is not the same as being a part of a functional political party.

[Deleted]

Becasue Free Speech.

Free speech does not mean you cannot be punished within the scope of the law. It merely means you are free to express yourself in a public manner, and take the consequences of your actions after that.
Fx you can post a blog about fascism recruitment and call out targets for murder, but you cant expect your site, or your own freedom to last for long if its illegal.
The difference is that you are free to say something before you go to jail, where censoring prevents you from being free to say something easily.

[Noxx79]

Sorry, they don't. They were defeated in 1945. But, let me guess, there's no length of time you're willing to go to make sure you're a victim, right? Always gotta keep those oppression credentials nice and polished.

You realize that I missed being there by 15 minutes? I had just picked up my mother and cousin from the place and was dropping the cousin off at the nearby nursing home. So you dont get to tell me how I'm playing a victim. One of my places, my former high school, was attacked by a nazi.

So again, I've proved you wrong, and you're pathetically trying to hand wave a nazi murderer.

Note: the reason why ythsre wasn't as big of a hullabaloo is because the guy was caught and punished, and we dindntbhave a president say that he was a "good person@.

So take your virtue signaling, no true Scotsman fallacy making, nazi sympathizing attitude elsewhere.

[IIamaKing]

Free speech does not mean you cannot be punished within the scope of the law. It merely means you are free to express yourself in a public manner, and take the consequences of your actions after that.
Fx you can post a blog about fascism recruitment and call out targets for murder, but you cant expect your site, or your own freedom to last for long if its illegal.
The difference is that you are free to say something before you go to jail, where censoring prevents you from being free to say something easily.

Um, that is actually exactly what it means in countries that have actual free speech.

[Pannonian]

Most austrians are very aware of the laws and the past, so its not accepted here, not even as a joke. Bear in mind that this guy is from the Ultras, a hoolligan crowd of one of the big viennese football clubs. They have a reputation for this shit and they play with it. He tried to be edgy and now he got the bill.

You wont find a lot of sympathy for this guy in Austria.

[Deleted]

at least with drugs there is a victim - the self. Cannot be said with an idea.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that the punishment he got is excessive and waaaay out of proportion to what he did. Like, entirely so.

I am just saying that the question if it should be punishable in the first place is another (of course valid) debate - but as long as there is established law against it (which here has its roots in Austria's history), there obviously has to be consequences. Law has to be enforced, otherwise it's pointless.

[Noxx79]

Your anecdote still doesn't make your boogeyman exist, but I'm sure you'll reply telling me how SUPER SERIOUS the Nazi threat in America is. Tell me, do you apply this "no true Scotsman" argument you claim I'm making to members of BLM that kill cops? Or is it only used conveniently for you to give pass to people with whom you agree?

Wow. A nazi attacked my school/community center and you're saying he's not REALLY a nazi.

You're out of excuses.

[Deleted]

Ummm what??

You just described anytime in human history someone spoke up to power and was jailed, beaten, or murdered because they spoke up to the people making the laws.

Well that is how it is. Im simply explaining how the system works in most countries that have free speech. What exactly is punishable and the punishments are up to the laws in specific countries.

[Noxx79]

You say I have no argument. Your argument is that the nazi isn't a nazi. You said nazis aren't killing people. I gave you evidence of a nazI killing people.

You are done. You are wrong and desperately trying to hang on to your false point.

BLM is completely irrelevant and a pathetic attempt to deflect.

[Deleted]

Except that your boogeyman "Nazis" are doing neither. I know it's hard when you can't see past your own virtue signaling.

Yep, you clearly don't know Austrian history. Or the fact that Ultras are violent football hooligans with heavy criminal past.

But sure, continue your virtue signaling from America.

You can't really expect Europeans to understand freedom as we know it here in America. It's sad, but they reflexively defend the infringement of their rights at all costs because it's all they've ever known.

Virtue signaling much now?

[Deleted]

Um, that is actually exactly what it means in countries that have actual free speech.

Well that is how it works in way most industrialized countries regarding freedom of speech. But do tell me a country that have "actual" free speech, a place where you cannot be held responsible for publishing any sort of writing, audio or pictures. No matter if it involves drug trade, child pornography, incitement to murder, slandering and falsifying records.

If you can honestly tell me a country that have laws on free speech and these are not punishable by laws, i would very much be interested in reading about it. The only examples i can think of are countries where it either doesn't matter or they dont actually care.

[Deleted]

After the bullshit Hitler did, I wouldn't blame them for giving his ass the death penalty and doing the world a favor.

this is the left ladies and gentleman, which wants immigrant rapists to not be deported but wishes the death sentence on an drunk idiotic moron for a gesture.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

In Austria, using the Swastika is prohibited by law as well, unless it is in a context that is clearly negative towards national-socialism etc (for example if it's crossed out).

I am fairly sure Germany still uses the Reichadler, but if I recall right its name was changed to Bundesadler.

Neat. Thanks for dropping some knowledge!

[Pannonian]

this is the left ladies and gentleman, which wants immigrant rapists to not be deported but wishes the death sentence on an drunk idiotic moron for a gesture.

Funny, though - I'm on the left and think that's stupid too.. so.. maybe don't project that much?

[Pannonian]

Neat. Thanks for dropping some knowledge!

To add: Not just negatively, you are not allowed to use it in a glorifying way. To print a swastika in a book about history is not forbidden.

- - - Updated - - -

I almost missed this gem because you didn't quote me. You tryna get slick on me, boy?! Again, you must know understand the concept of linear time. The Nazis were defeated in 1945, making people that cosplay as them, wait for it, not actual Nazis. Do you see how this works? Unless the Nazis somehow invented time travel, planted themselves in a different country with different language and dialects, then, no, the Nazis don't actually exist. It's just a buzzword liberals like to use to try to hype of their arguments. Now, you could say that white supremacists actually exist, and you'd be right. But a hand salute and a flag from 70 years ago does not an actual Nazi make.

As for the BLM argument, it's completely relevant when you say I'm using a no true Scotsman fallacy. I'm testing the consistency of your beliefs, which it doesn't appear you have any outside of making sure the world knows how oppressed things are because of Nazis or Trump or whatever.

Reading this could help you understand why you're wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratlin..._II_aftermath)

There were a LOT of Nazis after WW2, and just a minority got a punishment.

[IIamaKing]

Well that is how it works in way most industrialized countries regarding freedom of speech. But do tell me a country that have "actual" free speech, a place where you cannot be held responsible for publishing any sort of writing, audio or pictures. No matter if it involves drug trade, child pornography, incitement to murder, slandering and falsifying records.

If you can honestly tell me a country that have laws on free speech and these are not punishable by laws, i would very much be interested in reading about it. The only examples i can think of are countries where it either doesn't matter or they dont actually care.

A hand signal is the same as incitement to a riot now? Ok. Freedom of Speech mean you can speak out and the government cant punish you for it, there are exception to the speech allowed, IE yelling "fire" in a crowded space, threats to other persons. These restrictions are there to keep others safe. There is no law in the US that prevents you from making a hand gesture, lol.

[Deleted]

To add: Not just negatively, you are not allowed to use it in a glorifying way. To print a swastika in a book about history is not forbidden.

My bad, I forgot to add that it's also allowed to use the symbols in an educational context - which would include history books.

[Deleted]

I don't see why this is considered a problem. Why would you not punish someone who is openly endorsing hitler?

We should also jail everyone praising Stalin, Lenin or Marx. We should not tolerate any ideology of hatred.

[urasim]

You say I have no argument. Your argument is that the nazi isn't a nazi. You said nazis aren't killing people. I gave you evidence of a nazI killing people.

You are done. You are wrong and desperately trying to hang on to your false point.

BLM is completely irrelevant and a pathetic attempt to deflect.

A few fringe people in a group attacking and killing others doesn't mean there's a larger threat.

A left leaning asshole shot republicans in America. But I won't say that it's all left leaning people because that's stupid. Just like it's stupid to say all current peaceful people on the American right are not to blame for the one or two extremist examples that you found.