Copenhagen parents should be able to reject unvaccinated children from daycare: party

[Deleted]

It scares me how many people would rather punish or force others to use vaccinees instead of properly educating people so they choose them themselves. People don't become anti-vaxxers by their own choice, but because someone else did better job at educating them at false knowledge.

It is not so much about education, it is more a question of motive that you'd need to lecture on. Now how do you in any way argue someone away from a false premise, that is created in the sense of a seated fear/disdain from any form of authority?

The answer is that you don't, because you can't educate when the very notion of education is a tool of authority.

[Kubaal]

If you and your children are vaccinated, then whats the harm being around someone who isnt?

[Deleted]

It is not so much about education, it is more a question of motive that you'd need to lecture on. Now how do you in any way argue someone away from a false premise, that is created in the sense of a seated fear/disdain from any form of authority?

The answer is that you don't, because you can't educate when the very notion of education is a tool of authority.

Then it can't be done by authorities. It's the same problem with many of so-called leftist, progressives, liberals or whatnot movements, foundations, news etc. nowadays - they are all tied one way or another to authorities. Usually just by getting at least some funding from them.

Average educated people need to teach them without picking on them. Treat them like children in kinderarten who know shit about real world. If you talked crap about a child in kindergarten like usually happens about anyone believeing in conspiracy theories, you'd be at least sued in most of civilised countries.

Too bad they are an easy target to be picked up by 'educated' bullies. They, together with climate deniers, flat earthers and all others.

At the end of the day, they are jsut victims of false knowledge and nobody helps them with pointing fingers at them.

[Masark]

If you and your children are vaccinated, then whats the harm being around someone who isnt?

1. Not everyone can be vaccinated.

2. Not everyone has been vaccinated yet.

3. Vaccines are not 100% effective.

Your question is akin to asking "if you and your children are wearing bulletproof vests, what's the harm in getting shot at?".

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Average educated people need to teach them without picking on them. Treat them like children in kinderarten who know shit about real world.

Your proposed strategy has been shown to be ineffective.

[Deleted]

Then it can't be done by authorities. It's the same problem with many of so-called leftist, progressives, liberals or whatnot movements, foundations, news etc. nowadays - they are all tied one way or another to authorities. Usually just by getting at least some funding from them.

Average educated people need to teach them without picking on them. Treat them like children in kinderarten who know shit about real world. If you talked crap about a child in kindergarten like usually happens about anyone believeing in conspiracy theories, you'd be at least sued in most of civilised countries.

Too bad they are an easy target to be picked up by 'educated' bullies. They, together with climate deniers, flat earthers and all others.

At the end of the day, they are jsut victims of false knowledge and nobody helps them with pointing fingers at them.

Well glad to hear that you will take a month off from your job and go lecture all these people

The issue lies that we have people who essentially are distrusting of something, not because there is anything that really attributes such a fact to be true, but because it comes from authorities; and that is a self serving cycle, because you literally can deny any facts that proves you wrong to be the works of authorities (which they tend to be).

So you are asking us to educate people on a subject, when all the facts and knowledge can be thrown out as being the works of authorities. It is impossible in the worst cases.

Now, the inherent risk in this is what is worrying. See when it comes to something like this, you have some people who didn't get their kids vaccinated and they didn't get sick or autism. That will automatically attract more people, because we are short minded people, we don't understand grander perspectives, so you end up with even more people not getting their kids vaccinated, because why take the risk that those nutheads are actually right?
In this scenario, there is basically no doubt that we would see a new epidemic (especially in our modern society, where it can spread like wildfire). That isn't the dangerous part, the dangerous part is that the things we vaccinate, could evolve to actually negate our vaccines, so now no one is safe.

You are literally asking for us to be gentle, with people that are committing bio risk terrorism and treason, and I am not sure how to tell you that isn't something one should take lightly.

[Dug]

Then it can't be done by authorities. It's the same problem with many of so-called leftist, progressives, liberals or whatnot movements, foundations, news etc. nowadays - they are all tied one way or another to authorities. Usually just by getting at least some funding from them.

Average educated people need to teach them without picking on them. Treat them like children in kinderarten who know shit about real world. If you talked crap about a child in kindergarten like usually happens about anyone believeing in conspiracy theories, you'd be at least sued in most of civilised countries.

Too bad they are an easy target to be picked up by 'educated' bullies. They, together with climate deniers, flat earthers and all others.

At the end of the day, they are jsut victims of false knowledge and nobody helps them with pointing fingers at them.

Yeah nah this is a load of crap (oh no im being an educated bully!). There is a point where gentle words and trying to educate people through civil discussion just fails because some peoples heads are so far up their own ass they don't want to believe or they will simply reject out of spite because their political sports team says so. Plenty of evidence of this on these forums and in the real world. Willful morons deserve ridicule.

[Deleted]

1. Not everyone can be vaccinated.

2. Not everyone has been vaccinated yet.

3. Vaccines are not 100% effective.

Your question is akin to asking "if you and your children are wearing bulletproof vests, what's the harm in getting shot at?".

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Your proposed strategy has been shown to be ineffective.

"METHODS: A Web-based nationally" I didn't read anything further. Not after I specifically mentioned talking to them in real life.

Well glad to hear that you will take a month off from your job and go lecture all these people

The issue lies that we have people who essentially are distrusting of something, not because there is anything that really attributes such a fact to be true, but because it comes from authorities; and that is a self serving cycle, because you literally can deny any facts that proves you wrong to be the works of authorities (which they tend to be).

So you are asking us to educate people on a subject, when all the facts and knowledge can be thrown out as being the works of authorities. It is impossible in the worst cases.

Now, the inherent risk in this is what is worrying. See when it comes to something like this, you have some people who didn't get their kids vaccinated and they didn't get sick or autism. That will automatically attract more people, because we are short minded people, we don't understand grander perspectives, so you end up with even more people not getting their kids vaccinated, because why take the risk that those nutheads are actually right?
In this scenario, there is basically no doubt that we would see a new epidemic (especially in our modern society, where it can spread like wildfire). That isn't the dangerous part, the dangerous part is that the things we vaccinate, could evolve to actually negate our vaccines, so now no one is safe.

You are literally asking for us to be gentle, with people that are committing bio risk terrorism and treason, and I am not sure how to tell you that isn't something one should take lightly.

Modern approach to criminals is 'to be gentle', to sum up such a complicated issue. Smarter than myself people say it's good and it works and so on. And you don't need to use 'facts' in teachings. Remember kindergarten? How many 'facts' were actually needed to raise up a child who knew nothign about real world? Dunno maybe it's different in different countries. You can educate those poeple in the same way they were fooled in the first place - use emotions instead of facts.

Yeah nah this is a load of crap (oh no im being an educated bully!). There is a point where gentle words and trying to educate people through civil discussion just fails because some peoples heads are so far up their own ass they don't want to believe or they will simply reject out of spite because their political sports team says so. Plenty of evidence of this on these forums and in the real world. Willful morons deserve ridicule.

Anti-vaxxers care about their political party more than their own children? Tell me more about bullshit.

[Deleted]

Modern approach to criminals is 'to be gentle', to sum up such a complicated issue. Smarter than myself people say it's good and it works and so on. And you don't need to use 'facts' in teachings. Remember kindergarten? How many 'facts' were actually needed to raise up a child who knew nothing about real world? Dunno maybe it's different in different countries. You can educate those people in the same way they were fooled in the first place - use emotions instead of facts.

I'd be okay with treating them gently, as criminals.

Also trying to trick them into believing? Dude they live the very concept that everything is a set up trap, I mean it is why they basically aren't a consistent group, because they are constantly at each others throats, because they believe each other to be plants.

[Deleted]

It scares me how many people would rather punish or force others to use vaccinees instead of properly educating people so they choose them themselves. People don't become anti-vaxxers by their own choice, but because someone else did better job at educating them at false knowledge.

Sure let stupidity stand in the way of even more things.

Let's start catering to flat earthers aswell

[Deleted]

Didn't knew this was a problem in Denmark.

Unvaccinated people should be casted from society, we don't need diseases spreading around because a bunch of Darwin Award Winners.

[Deleted]

I'd be okay with treating them gently, as criminals.

Also trying to trick them into believing? Dude they live the very concept that everything is a set up trap, I mean it is why they basically aren't a consistent group, because they are constantly at each others throats, because they believe each other to be plants.

They aren't but even if you met some who actually are, you can use that to teach them anyway. Sell them story how evil corporations make more money from treating preventable diseases than from making vaccinees, use some random facts, even give them links to veryfy them, you know, just use the same tactic their fake-knowledge teachers do. It's actually very easy. Do it to protect yourself and your children, not for them.

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Sure let stupidity stand in the way of even more things.

Let's start catering to flat earthers aswell

Stupidity is hating on such people forcing them only deeper into their false beliefs and supporting fake-knowledge preachers by providing them with ammunition to use against victims of such fake knowledge.

Again - 'anti-vaxxers' are VICTIMS, real oppressors/agressors/criminals/whomnots are those from whom such fake knowledge originates. You can't punish people for stupidity alone.

[Deleted]

They aren't but even if you met some who actually are, you can use that to teach them anyway. Sell them story how evil corporations make more money from treating preventable diseases than from making vaccinees, use some random facts, even give them links to veryfy them, you know, just use the same tactic their fake-knowledge teachers do. It's actually very easy. Do it to protect yourself and your children, not for them.

I'm going with the notion of scaring them with prison time or fines will be faster and far more effective. That or literally just take their kids away, because I don't trust such people to be missing only in one part of rationality.

[fengosa]

Not sure what the debate is. Canada has had laws on the book for some time. If you want to send your kid to public school their shots have to be up to date.

[Deleted]

I'm going with the notion of scaring them with prison time or fines will be faster and far more effective. That or literally just take their kids away, because I don't trust such people to be missing only in one part of rationality.

I can't really argue with that - smarter, so called 'leftist' people all over the internet say that punitive actions don't work. I'm yet to met one in real life so I can't really say much more about that. Just that I think that if something works for a murderer, it propably will ever more so work for just a stupid person believeing in conspiracy theories about evil vaccinees.

[Deleted]

I can't really argue with that - smarter, so called 'leftist' people all over the internet say that punitive actions don't work. I'm yet to met one in real life so I can't really say much more about that. Just that I think that if something works for a murderer, it propably will ever more so work for just a stupid person believeing in conspiracy theories about evil vaccinees.

I didn't say anything about it "working" as a means to make them accept the fact, just that it would give more incentive, and if that isn't enough we will take over responsibility. I mean we do it with all other delusional insane people, can't see how this is different.

[Deleted]

I didn't say anything about it "working" as a means to make them accept the fact, just that it would give more incentive, and if that isn't enough we will take over responsibility. I mean we do it with all other delusional insane people, can't see how this is different.

Well, I meant it in such way. I believe that educated people are smarter than shady people who made them believe in fake knowledge in the first place and we can make it all even better by turning such people away from believing in lies. Forcing them or punishing will probably work, but only in short term, in longer turn it will only breed even more like them by giving their 'preachers' ammo about how 'evil government is trying to hide their lies through force' or something like that.

[Deleted]

It is not so much about education, it is more a question of motive that you'd need to lecture on. Now how do you in any way argue someone away from a false premise, that is created in the sense of a seated fear/disdain from any form of authority?

The answer is that you don't, because you can't educate when the very notion of education is a tool of authority.

What isn't helping is the amount of trolling that's being used as a cover for these measures to be pushed in against the citizens rights.
What's worse is this problem arised in apart from their immigration issues so the state and it's brainwashed supporters are harming the good people of denmark twice.

The bottom line is if the small amount of people are paranoid about measles then they can stick their kids in a plastic bubble for their own safety.

[Dug]

Anti-vaxxers care about their political party more than their own children? Tell me more about bullshit.

Since you're lumping them in with climate deniers and flat earth conspiracy nut jobs, yeah more than likely.

[Deleted]

What isn't helping is the amount of trolling that's being used as a cover for these measures to be pushed in against the citizens rights.
What's worse is this problem arised in aprt from their immigration issues so the state and it's brainwashed supporters are harming the good people of denmark twice.

What are you even talking about?

[Deleted]

Since you're lumping them in with climate deniers and flat earth conspiracy nut jobs, yeah more than likely.

I think you are just purposefully obtuse to have something to bitch about. Save your time on me so you can bitch at 'real' targets.