Do you think there is any chance they ever bring 10m raiding back?

[asil]

I really don't understand this logic. The game's health? The vast majority of people in this game prefered 10 man raiding, it was far more enjoyable for most people which is why most people raided 10m.

Maintaining a 20m/25m raid team is a fucking nightmare for most people, it's a complete nightmare. I've done high end progression during wotlk, cata, MOP. I went 10m in mop and it was just a much better experience. I enjoyed raiding with my friends, I enjoyed not having to constantly worry about 1 person not showing up, that was fun to me.

And literally everyone else I know feels the same exact way. 10m was healthy for the game, the bullshit they have now isn't.

Over half of the people I know have quit the game directly because they took high end 10m raiding out, these aren't bad players - they're people that have raided in world top 30 guilds and had no problem with progression.

If blizzard gives a shit about this game they'll bring 10m back.

Another serious design flaw is how mandatory legendaries are. You've basically made it impossible to easily main switch and the class balance is pretty questionable.

[Tech614]

They will probably bring it back.

M+ was already a step in the direction of bringing some high end pve back to smaller groups. Blizzard always continues trends.

20M Mythic is a failure from a development standpoint looking at how many do it vs how much dev work has to go into it. Hard to justify it going forward, and don't be surprised when it's changed. Maybe not in the next xpac, but probably within the next 2.

[Ebalina]

I really don't understand this logic. The game's health? The vast majority of people in this game prefered 10 man raiding, it was far more enjoyable for most people which is why most people raided 10m.

Maintaining a 20m/25m raid team is a fucking nightmare for most people, it's a complete nightmare. I've done high end progression during wotlk, cata, MOP. I went 10m in mop and it was just a much better experience. I enjoyed raiding with my friends, I enjoyed not having to constantly worry about 1 person not showing up, that was fun to me.

And literally everyone else I know feels the same exact way. 10m was healthy for the game, the bullshit they have now isn't.

Over half of the people I know have quit the game directly because they took high end 10m raiding out, these aren't bad players - they're people that have raided in world top 30 guilds and had no problem with progression.

If blizzard gives a shit about this game they'll bring 10m back.

Another serious design flaw is how mandatory legendaries are. You've basically made it impossible to easily main switch and the class balance is pretty questionable.

Let me set you up straight.
No one prefered 10man, NO ONE every one who is saying that is lying to you and them selfs.
There is a reason why people chose 10man but it is not because they like it.
It is because its the path of least resistance, and that is what people do they want it easy they don't want to overcome all the hurdles that came with 25man raiding and now 20man mythic.

You can smoke your pipe dream all you want but fact is 10man was garbage people only chose it because they did not want to deal with other people or more people then usual, and that is retarded considering this is a MMO not a single player game and more people is what the game is based around.

[Kazuchika]

I'm not gonna lie I raided 10 man because it was easier and I had a potato of a computer up until MoP so 25 mans were a shitshow graphics wise.

The second I bought PC parts from this century it was 25 man all the way.

[dictainabox]

Let me set you up straight.
No one prefered 10man, NO ONE every one who is saying that is lying to you and them selfs.
There is a reason why people chose 10man but it is not because they like it.
It is because its the path of least resistance, and that is what people do they want it easy they don't want to overcome all the hurdles that came with 25man raiding and now 20man mythic.

You can smoke your pipe dream all you want but fact is 10man was garbage people only chose it because they did not want to deal with other people or more people then usual, and that is retarded considering this is a MMO not a single player game and more people is what the game is based around.

I too think people should like what I like or they are garbage people. How's that woman suit you are constructing out of murder victims coming along?

[Jastall]

I really don't understand this logic. The game's health? The vast majority of people in this game prefered 10 man raiding, it was far more enjoyable for most people which is why most people raided 10m.

Maintaining a 20m/25m raid team is a fucking nightmare for most people, it's a complete nightmare. I've done high end progression during wotlk, cata, MOP. I went 10m in mop and it was just a much better experience. I enjoyed raiding with my friends, I enjoyed not having to constantly worry about 1 person not showing up, that was fun to me.

And literally everyone else I know feels the same exact way. 10m was healthy for the game, the bullshit they have now isn't.

Over half of the people I know have quit the game directly because they took high end 10m raiding out, these aren't bad players - they're people that have raided in world top 30 guilds and had no problem with progression.

If blizzard gives a shit about this game they'll bring 10m back.

Another serious design flaw is how mandatory legendaries are. You've basically made it impossible to easily main switch and the class balance is pretty questionable.

The only people who can't raid 10m now are Mythic raiders, which already form a small portion of the population as it is. Of these, bringing 10m back is only enticing to those who really, really prefer 10m and don't want to do 20m. Which is probably a small number of players and not worth the headache for Blizzard, trying to design two versions of Mythic bosses which are obviously all tuned for 20 people. Heaven knows Mythic has enough issues it is sometimes.

[Ebalina]

I too think people should like what I like or they are garbage people. How's that woman suit you are constructing out of murder victims coming along?

You trying to say something or just chewing really loudly.
Cause your point got lost in translation when you were trying to act smart.

[Nnyco]

i hope they bring back 10man, always enjoyed raiding with smaller groups, big ones are just so troublesome

Because its shittier.

EDIT:
Also Vengeance only existed for one expansion and it only really got out of hand in one raid, SoO... I will admit that much. I solo'd the entire second phase of Galakras heroic on my prot pally... So yeah, vengeance was busted at the end.

But it wasn't like that the whole expansion.

kinda wrong, vengeance was a thing in entire mop and hit its peak during throne of thunder when tanks literally sat down to get hit by a crit for double vengeance, which got removed in soo patch

[asil]

Let me set you up straight.
No one prefered 10man, NO ONE every one who is saying that is lying to you and them selfs.
There is a reason why people chose 10man but it is not because they like it.
It is because its the path of least resistance, and that is what people do they want it easy they don't want to overcome all the hurdles that came with 25man raiding and now 20man mythic.

You can smoke your pipe dream all you want but fact is 10man was garbage people only chose it because they did not want to deal with other people or more people then usual, and that is retarded considering this is a MMO not a single player game and more people is what the game is based around.

Yes of course, everyone is lying, they didn't REALLY like 10m raiding, it's all a big lie and the tons of people that have quit over this very thing are all fake and lying as well.

This is some of the most fallacious shit I've ever seen anyone type on the internet, are you Donald Trump?

[Ebalina]

Yes of course, everyone is lying, they didn't REALLY like 10m raiding, it's all a big lie and the tons of people that have quit over this very thing are all fake and lying as well.

This is some of the most fallacious shit I've ever seen anyone type on the internet, are you Donald Trump?

Listen you so called man of the people.
When 10man was introduced to the game was a thing for off-nights to be done with socials and friends of the guilds.
People took it as that and that was it, it filled a niche and that niche on its own was fine.
When blizzard decided that those welfare people need to test them selfs in real raiding enviroment they decided to bring us the 10man you all so much love and scream from the top of your lungs about.

But what you brainless bunch of people seem to forget is that thing didn't last.
Your realms are dead because people decided to form their own little raiding homes where they invited only who they seemed fit to their social status.
After that the whole concept of raiding crumbled raiding wasn't viewed as something people wanted to strive and build and get good to be able to do.
And that happened because of how easy it was to maintain and lead a 10man guild the logistics behind it allowed every one and their mother to split of raiding teams build for years on a whim because they though to them selfs they know better and could do better just because blizzard told them 10man drops same gear as 25man for less effort.
From there on the shit storm that you all defending today happened and the raiding was never the same and never will be.
10man is a plague that should of been put on us only and i repeat my self only if it was to be the only RAIDING FORMAT, not some band-aid that crippled raiding more then it helped it.

Now drop your rose tinted glasses and think like a grownup person instead of clinning to your old love of mediocrity and easy way out that was the 10man raiding.

[Rioo]

Listen you so called man of the people.
When 10man was introduced to the game was a thing for off-nights to be done with socials and friends of the guilds.
People took it as that and that was it, it filled a niche and that niche on its own was fine.
When blizzard decided that those welfare people need to test them selfs in real raiding enviroment they decided to bring us the 10man you all so much love and scream from the top of your lungs about.

But what you brainless bunch of people seem to forget is that thing didn't last.
Your realms are dead because people decided to form their own little raiding homes where they invited only who they seemed fit to their social status.
After that the whole concept of raiding crumbled raiding wasn't viewed as something people wanted to strive and build and get good to be able to do.
And that happened because of how easy it was to maintain and lead a 10man guild the logistics behind it allowed every one and their mother to split of raiding teams build for years on a whim because they though to them selfs they know better and could do better just because blizzard told them 10man drops same gear as 25man for less effort.
From there on the shit storm that you all defending today happened and the raiding was never the same and never will be.
10man is a plague that should of been put on us only and i repeat my self only if it was to be the only RAIDING FORMAT, not some band-aid that crippled raiding more then it helped it.

Now drop your rose tinted glasses and think like a grownup person instead of clinning to your old love of mediocrity and easy way out that was the 10man raiding.

1. Within one expansion we went from 25-man being in the majority to 10-man being the majority. We had 10-man for another expansion which only continued the trend. Clearly the mode was for a majority of raiders.

2. Realms died because almost all guilds were raiding 10-man and then Blizzard removed that mode. Recruiting is hard, more than doubling your guild size is nuts. To add to the difficulty this was during the content drought after the SoO progression ended and a lot of people took a break anyways.

3. 10-man dropped less gear per person than 25-man, so it wasn't equal loot.

4. The difficulty was different from boss to boss. 10-man had higher individual responsibility, had a harder time stacking classes due to also requiring to bring enough diversity to get all the buffs, and had a harder time switching out a healer for DPS and vice versa. I'm guessing you played 25-man, got more loot and could optimize the raid comp when trying 10-man and because of that think 10-man was always easier.

I agree with you that 10-man should never have happened since Blizzard decided to drop it. The effect of giving us something most people liked better and then removing it ruined the raiding scene. But if Blizzard just kept 10-man raiding or made mythic 15-man in WoD I think that would have been even better.

[Wilfire]

20 man mythic would have been fine if it brought us better encounters like it was promised. Instead it brought us some of the most hated encounters in 12 years of WoW. Ask yourself, does mythic really add anything "cool" to the encounters? NO! All the coolest features are already included in normal and HC modes. Mythic just tacks on layers of artificial difficulty which no one likes (see Tomb of Soakgeras). Blizzard needs to cut this bullshit and go back to designing encounters that had interesting ideas instead of making this "tightly-tuned" mess where 1 mistake = wipe. Back to 10 man and 25 man hc next xpack or bust.

[dictainabox]

You trying to say something or just chewing really loudly.
Cause your point got lost in translation when you were trying to act smart.

You clearly dont get movie references like I get movie references. You must be a garbage human being.

Infracted

[Ebalina]

You clearly dont get movie references like I get movie references. You must be a garbage human being.

You seem to be way to offended for some one of your stature of a cave dwelling human.

Infracted

[dictainabox]

"Of your stature of a cave dwelling human." Wordsmithery, folks.

[Ebalina]

1. Within one expansion we went from 25-man being in the majority to 10-man being the majority. We had 10-man for another expansion which only continued the trend. Clearly the mode was for a majority of raiders.

2. Realms died because almost all guilds were raiding 10-man and then Blizzard removed that mode. Recruiting is hard, more than doubling your guild size is nuts. To add to the difficulty this was during the content drought after the SoO progression ended and a lot of people took a break anyways.

3. 10-man dropped less gear per person than 25-man, so it wasn't equal loot.

4. The difficulty was different from boss to boss. 10-man had higher individual responsibility, had a harder time stacking classes due to also requiring to bring enough diversity to get all the buffs, and had a harder time switching out a healer for DPS and vice versa. I'm guessing you played 25-man, got more loot and could optimize the raid comp when trying 10-man and because of that think 10-man was always easier.

I agree with you that 10-man should never have happened since Blizzard decided to drop it. The effect of giving us something most people liked better and then removing it ruined the raiding scene. But if Blizzard just kept 10-man raiding or made mythic 15-man in WoD I think that would have been even better.

I'm gonna answer only relevant points.

2. Realms died because people decided they are better then putting actual work and started migrating forming guilds with people who usually no one will team up based on social merits claiming 10man is worth while because 10man was joke easy mode for the most part where you could carry your friends and for the most part it was true. Ones those friends you invested time decided wow is bad game and left you had no choice to stop playing leaving your self due to how the nature of 10man guilds is small roster rarely looking to add up players leaving majority of people screwed over time due to not been able to find suitable spots for their roles and classes in another 10man guild therefor majority stopped playing after 1tier maybe even less.

3. No one argued that it dropped less loot per person but the loot was the same in terms of level and quality therefor it was equal to the 25man one, not even sure what your point is.

4. For the most part excluding few bosses 10man was a complete and utter clown fiesta with many many many undertunned bosses, having few overtunned doesn't make it hard or better it makes it retarded design.
You said it your self in order to optimize comps you actually have to have room for more classes and specs therefor the idea of having smaller raid sizes when the game has so much more to offer is one of a crazy person and should of stayed dead.

[Deleted]

If they bring back 10 man raiding ill resub. But I dont think they will, 20 man is here to stay.

[Kakera]

This isn't 2011 anymore. Move on.

[Fyersing]

Now drop your rose tinted glasses and think like a grownup person instead of clinning to your old love of mediocrity and easy way out that was the 10man raiding.

It's strange that there are so many people who, presumably, recognize that World of Warcraft's value to Blizzard-Activision is overwhelmingly determined by the level of player retention they're able to maintain and yet despite this understanding maintain that it's best for all involved (developers, investors, players, etc.) for the game to undergo an implicit narrowing of the audience; which isn't to say I'm making an argument for/against either setup, because as far as I'm concerned so long as Mythic Dungeons exist there's no other content worth putting much effort into (I sometimes hop into LFR, just to see the narrative played out in real-time, but that's about it).

Just an interesting position to take... that Blizzard is a company, a company who needs to make money, but it's better for them to drive people away.

[Ebalina]

It's strange that there are so many people who, presumably, recognize that World of Warcraft's value to Blizzard-Activision is overwhelmingly determined by the level of player retention they're able to maintain and yet despite this understanding maintain that it's best for all involved (developers, investors, players, etc.) for the game to undergo an implicit narrowing of the audience; which isn't to say I'm making an argument for/against either setup, because as far as I'm concerned so long as Mythic Dungeons exist there's no other content worth putting much effort into (I sometimes hop into LFR, just to see the narrative played out in real-time, but that's about it).

Just an interesting position to take... that Blizzard is a company, a company who needs to make money, but it's better for them to drive people away.

And you are a capitalist raised by the notion that money is everything.
Your point is moot blizzard are a company who grew by making things people like.
10man wasn't part of it it almost killed the raiding scene and it ain't coming back.