Demons are the most unrewarding mob type in the game.

[Soulstorm]

I agree that they feel pointless to kill.

Example solution:

Let them drop something like [Mote of Shadow] from BC, that gives players a reason to actually kill them. Then, adjust the drop frequency and amount needed in crafts such that the value isn't neglible (Unbroken Claw) in proportion to the amount you get just by casually playing.

[Karon]

27 bags is actually a lot, especially for normal playstyle and not farming. And I never stated it as a fact. Just like RNG is RNG. During the time waiting for your reply, I've received 3 more. Just by traveling this ravine of a broken planet.


I'm amazed that people still remember this guy? Oh well, so what.

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Quests, Mission table, World Quest, Invasion Points, Greater Invasion points, Rares and, special chests (Not the normal treasure chests).

That is more than enough methods for something that can get you up to what, 945 ilvl pieces?

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I didn't lie. I didn't state all did. I stated you could obtain them via normal mobs.

And yes, you can but people tend to want to be in current content. But your attitude is generally, you want a lollipop for stepping on a cockroach that you didn't have to step on.

I never said that you call it fact. I said you act as if it where a fact. You want to defend Argus so fucking hard that you even write bullshit contradict yourself whole doing it and then even put shit in others mouths just so you can distract from your obvious lies.

[Lillyth]

Have you met this guy and his son yet? I am so annoyed, no, disgusted by orcs that I do not want to role play with them, see them in PVP or see them as lore characters. I am sick of them to the core.

[cparle87]

Because frog farming for coins was so "rewarding".

Yeah. I think this is the kind of "content" he is asking for. Getting a small amount of currency from grinding trivial mobs until your eyes bleed.

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So in that case, why are the Demon mobs even there? They practically serve no purpose now. Explain why they exist gameplay wise to me. Outside of a kill counter achievement. Hypothetically, if the achievement didn't exist, why are they there. What gameplay aspect do they serve?

Um. They drop gold, cloth, vendor greys. The kinds of things humanoidish mobs have been dropping since classic.

[Soxoffender]

Tanaan had rares that dropped mounts and pets and apexis crystals, and yet everything else also dropped apexis crystals. So now in Argus we have rares that drop pets and mounts and Veiled Argunite, and nothing else drops Veiled Argunite or an equivilant, how is that equal? Seems like less to me. Where are you getting the equal idea? The WQs? Tanaan had daily quests and bonus zones, pretty much the same idea.

So no, it's not equal at all. You don't want to farm regular demons, hell, you don't want to even fight regular demons, it's better playstyle now, to park your character in front of a rare spawn area, and log out til tommorow. Then kill the rare race past every normal mob you can to get to the next rare spawn point. The mobs aren't there to be killed, or fought. They may as well be neutral NPC's or critters for how much you give a rats ass about them. They are an annoyance, a buzzing fly, something to hold you up as you are on your way somewhere else, nothing more. They have no inherent gameplay value. They give no rewards, no rep, and if you are lucky maybe vendor trash or two.

At least back in the other zones, if you got held up by mobs, you'd go "okay I'll fight these because I have a chance at getting *this reward* and I will definately get *this currency* for killing them. Now? Nothing. No point.

To be fair, we also get a weekly quest that awards 300 Veiled Argunite and invasion points and treasure chests that spawn pretty frequently too. I've spent a reasonable amount of time in Argus (I'm playing a little more than my casual play style normally allows but I don't have 1k demon kills yet) and I've managed to farm enough to get two rings, two trinkets, two relics and a belt for my Warlock. I've also been able to funnel around a third of a set of 880 gear each to five poorly geared alts - that's a great little bonus. I personally think the reward level is about right and that's even after factoring in Vashreen continually trolling me with Versatility heavy PVP gear.

[Lochton]

So in that case, why are the Demon mobs even there? They practically serve no purpose now. Explain why they exist gameplay wise to me. Outside of a kill counter achievement. Hypothetically, if the achievement didn't exist, why are they there. What gameplay aspect do they serve?

You are the enemy on Argus, not the demons. You are invading their base, demons are bound to be around. This isn't meant to be a tour of Argus' loot and and rares.

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I agree that they feel pointless to kill.

Example solution:

Let them drop something like [Mote of Shadow] from BC, that gives players a reason to actually kill them. Then, adjust the drop frequency and amount needed in crafts such that the value isn't neglible (Unbroken Claw) in proportion to the amount you get just by casually playing.

I already included that, if you get the buff, you can farm eyes to obtain some items too.

[Xofa]

Me and my mount disagree with you.

My mount and I*

[Lochton]

I never said that you call it fact. I said you act as if it where a fact. You want to defend Argus so fucking hard that you even write bullshit contradict yourself whole doing it and then even put shit in others mouths just so you can distract from your obvious lies.

Please do point out what I've said that contradicts what I've said?
Please do point out what I've said to make it appear to be putting words in other's mouths?
Please do point out what the actual lie what?

And no, I don't act as if something were a fact. I acted on my own experience.

And no, I am not at fullest defending the whole of the argus patch. Topics mentioned in here was points brought out by the main topic of the OP.

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My mount and I*

Ah, darn, the grammar police is here. Sorry, teacher, I'll go fix it.

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Um. They drop gold, cloth, vendor greys. The kinds of things humanoidish mobs have been dropping since classic.

And a currency too, to purchase things.

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Have you met this guy and his son yet? I am so annoyed, no, disgusted by orcs that I do not want to role play with them, see them in PVP or see them as lore characters. I am sick of them to the core.

That.. face.. that is a bit how I feel about this thread. Haha.

[Deleted]

Something in Legion has been bothering me for a while, it's why the Invasions and Broken Shore and Argus really irk me, and I think I found out what it is.
Demons in Legion(specifically the non-rares) are just the most pointless enemy in the game. From a game design perspective. Especially on the Broken Shore and Argus.

Firstly, they are always somewhere between a boss mob and an elite in terms of health and damage.

Secondly, they drop nothing at all of value, compared with Timeless Isle mobs that dropped coins, Isle of Thunder keys and other stuff, Tanaan that dropped crystals and other stuff. Like they 99.9999% of the time have nothing of value or interesting on them. Only rares or boss mobs for quests seem to carry even a green with any amount of regularity, although I've got nothing from invasion bosses probably 50% of the time outside a trash item.

Thirdly, you don't get any reputation with Legionfall, the Army of the Light or any other faction for killing them outside of specific world quests.

There is no incentive to kill them or fight them at all. You actively don't want to fight them, because of such a waste of time it is. I've seen people pull teams of demons into other groups, just to get rid of them, because they are so utterly unrewarding in any way to fight, that they are below the level of raid trash. Stun them, root them, daze them, sap them, vanish, just anything to get away from having to spend time fighting them for nothing. They are like 300% stronger than a regular mob, but drop 300% less stuff, and don't even give rep. So whats the point?

And what does that have to do with demons? This can be said for all non-demon mobs in Legion just as well.

[Thagrynor]

Welcome to the world of roleplaying games, you must obtain equipment and prepare yourself to take on strong foes. In the world, there may appear other threats that might not match that of the fierce creatures walking around but they can reward other things that might not be considered a primary objective for people to collect.


Yup, I know it is. And yes, you're meant to be killing your foes and then you may get something out of it. I don't actively farm them alone, these procs is just from killing mobs that either is a problem on my way, or in the way of a chest/rare.


http://ptr.wowhead.com/achievement=1...chew-mana-buns

The only mount I was thinking about.

And a last point to add to the ones hungry for currency; Orix, the eye collector would like a talk with you. Just incase you hunger for mindless currency farm.

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Well, for the demons, it seems the smaller they are, the more entertaining they can be. At least now many of them say something instead of just a speech bubble.

I just want to make sure I am understanding you.

So the point of an RPG is to gear up to fight big "fierce" creatures, as you put it, but you may encounter lesser creatures that can drop other items that are worth collecting in your quest for more gear to fight bigger mobs. However, the OP's point is that in your quest to get gear to fight bigger mobs, you encounter lots of lesser creatures that drop nothing worth while.

Then you state that you can get a mount to drop from normal mobs, and then link to a mount that is a result of an achievement in an effort to defend that you weren't wrong and that, what? the OP misunderstood you? You were wrong. Mounts do not drop from normal mobs in Argus. Pets do not drop from them. A mount or pet coming from an achievement to kill non-trivial mobs does not count as a mount dropping from them. The dropping part implies RNG that means you could get it on your first kill or your 1,000,000th kill. If you have a very specific number that guarantees your getting it, it is not RNG and thus not a "drop". On top of that, it is not a "drop" because you do not get it to DROP in the loot table. You are simply rewarded it. That is like saying Titles drop from mobs and bosses when you kill them. It is factually inaccurate and a horrible way of trying to justify your "rightness" in a situation you are straight up wrong about.

Trying to justify that the shoulder enchants make up for the currency issue is ridiculous because that is not meant to be a replacement, nor does it work as one. It is 1 drop per hour. I could kill 5 mobs and have it drop and do effectively fuck all for an hour, sitting in Dalaran, and then go back and kill 5 mob and have another drop. Does that mean I get to claim "Well shucks, it must have a 20% drop chance! That is amazing!"? No, of course not. On the flip side, you could go and mindlessly grind 1,000 demons in that hour and still get 1 bag. And guess what? You are getting the same number of bags as someone else in that one hour (maybe an extra if you happen to get a lucky proc on a group when it procs). That is not rewarding you for doing the content. That is actually playing into your scorn of casual content because the person grinding 1000 mobs gets effectively the same reward as someone grinding 5 mobs.

The point the OP is trying to make is that, while you may dislike "pseudo reward systems" like in game currency, they are better design as a reward system from the stand Blizzard takes in the sense that they want you to keep playing and a slow trickle reward system that rewards you for continually killing shit is better than one you can log in 2 or 3 times for 30 minutes at different parts of the day and get the same overall reward. And he is not wrong. Right now, regular demons are effectively just a timesink. They give very little tangible rewards. You all keep talking about the 2000 mob achievement. Let me ask you, what are you getting from those demons after you have that achievement? Nothing right? THAT is the point he is getting at.

From everyone I have talked to (admittedly this is anecdotal evidence, but this is what I have to work with), the drop green of even green trash is lower on the demons than on normal mobs, and that part is actually understandable because of how plentiful the mobs are on Argus, otherwise people would be drowned in a tsunami of random green trash for what they need to kill just to navigate the zone. But there will come a time in a week or two when the lack of rewards dropping from demons will catch up with literally every one of you saying it doesn't matter and they are rewarding and you realize that the OP is entirely right. Having even the numbers adjusted so that normal mobs drop 1-2 Argunite, rares dropped about 5 more on average (same with regular chests) and increasing the Relinquished token cost to, say, 850, would give about the same speed of acquiring the tokens while making normal demons feel at least somewhat worth the bother.

[Deleted]

demons in argus hurts AF. i hate them with passion.

[Strangewayes]

Um. They drop gold, cloth, vendor greys. The kinds of things humanoidish mobs have been dropping since classic.

No,normal mobs drop trash, gold, vendor greys and greens and rarely blues, and in that one off chance a purple. You know how I know that? I've farmed thousands of crabs for scales. And those are the types of things I've gotten.

Normal Demons, after killing hundreds of thousands of them, some gold, grey vendor trash 50% of the time, one or two pieces of cloth, rarely, and once in a fricking blue moon, 100 nethershards. That's it.

I've already got 3 purple armor/weapons from lvl 110 crabs, and countless blues and greens from them, from farming weak groups of crabs, IN THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA. And this is before I even skin them.

When it's more rewarding doing that, than playing current content, and fighting the Demons of the burning legion, even the regular ones, you feel there is no point to it, in any way. Especially considering the power difference.

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You are the enemy on Argus, not the demons. You are invading their base, demons are bound to be around. This isn't meant to be a tour of Argus' loot and and rares.

If they wanted you to be the enemy in the base they could've gone with other options

They could've gone with a Sentinax beam or Legion bombers or any combination of that sort of theme why would you populate an area with useless mobs when they serve no tangible reward for dealing with them? Since the majority of them aren't quest objectives for anything. And if you have already completed, or ignoring the achievement, what purpose do they serve?

[cparle87]

And if you have already completed, or ignoring the achievement, what purpose do they serve?

If you have to ask what purpose mobs serve in a video game... I really don't know what to say to you at this point.

[Strangewayes]

If you have to ask what purpose mobs serve in a video game... I really don't know what to say to you at this point.

I just went to look at the drop tables for Normal Demons in Legion vs Normal Non-Demon mobs in Legion.

Demons only drop Grey vendor trash and cloth.
Non Demons drop Grey Vendor trash, cloth, greens, blues, purples, recipes.
A Broken Isle mob has 1 million HP
A Demon has 2-5+ million HP.

Guess whos worth killing

[Will]

Well, my psychiatrist advised me to switch into protection spec before going into Argus so I can run through this garbage laughing in their faces "ha! Where is your daze NOW!"
It helps.

You don't even need to go tank spec to avoid getting dazed. Leatherworkers can make barding that gives 2 hours of daze immunity while mounted.

[cparle87]

I just went to look at the drop tables for Normal Demons in Legion vs Normal Non-Demon mobs in Legion.

Demons only drop Grey vendor trash and cloth.
Non Demons drop Grey Vendor trash, cloth, greens, blues, purples, recipes.
A Broken Isle mob has 1 million HP
A Demon has 2-5+ million HP.

Guess whos worth killing

Um, if you're looking on wowhead, you should realize that those drop tables are formed when people who have the wowhead addon loot the mob and get something. Consider how many people use the addon and consider that Mac'aree for instance is only 3 days old, it's entirely possible that they do drop greens, blues, and purples, it's just that no one with the addon has gotten one yet. World/zone drops are just that. And what exactly do you mean be recipes? Like 2-star and 3-star crafting ones?

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You don't even need to go tank spec to avoid getting dazed. Leatherworkers can make barding that gives 2 hours of daze immunity while mounted.

And they last 8 hours if you're a leatherworker yourself.

[Strangewayes]

Um, if you're looking on wowhead, you should realize that those drop tables are formed when people who have the wowhead addon loot the mob and get something. Consider how many people use the addon and consider that Mac'aree for instance is only 3 days old, it's entirely possible that they do drop greens, blues, and purples, it's just that no one with the addon has gotten one yet.

yes it's entirely possible the Normal demons that dropped nothing but vendor trash throughout this entire expansion, including the Broken Shore and zone Invasions, now suddenly drop greens blues and purples on Argus.

Talk about optimistic.

[Byleth]

Tanaan had rares that dropped mounts and pets and apexis crystals, and yet everything else also dropped apexis crystals. So now in Argus we have rares that drop pets and mounts and Veiled Argunite, and nothing else drops Veiled Argunite or an equivilant, how is that equal? Seems like less to me. Where are you getting the equal idea? The WQs? Tanaan had daily quests and bonus zones, pretty much the same idea.

So no, it's not equal at all. You don't want to farm regular demons, hell, you don't want to even fight regular demons, it's better playstyle now, to park your character in front of a rare spawn area, and log out til tommorow. Then kill the rare race past every normal mob you can to get to the next rare spawn point. The mobs aren't there to be killed, or fought. They may as well be neutral NPC's or critters for how much you give a rats ass about them. They are an annoyance, a buzzing fly, something to hold you up as you are on your way somewhere else, nothing more. They have no inherent gameplay value. They give no rewards, no rep, and if you are lucky maybe vendor trash or two.

At least back in the other zones, if you got held up by mobs, you'd go "okay I'll fight these because I have a chance at getting *this reward* and I will definately get *this currency* for killing them. Now? Nothing. No point.

So your point is that it's different?

[Strangewayes]

So your point is that it's different?

So are you being intentionally dense because you are annoyed by the points I'm bringing up?

[Alanar]

Two Handed sword is the best imo. Using it on my warrior.

Just waiting for Arsenal of the Light 2 hand sword to fit with my pally.
Just need Feasel muffin thief and Videx, got lucky just killed Shadowcaster Voruun 19:30 on Ragnaros.