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  1. #201
    Banned Lazuli's Avatar
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    More sensitive pussies getting offended over something stupid and cowardly companies that won't even defend themselves so everyone misses out. GG no re, this generation is straight fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuukt if we are just going to remove everything from history that someone disagree's with lol. Fuckin pansies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Oberyn Martell View Post
    If your audience is mostly black you're not gonna show them a story in which black slavery was all roses and moonshine.

    That would be like me telling the OP I did his mom and she liked it.
    Whys it matter if you are black or white? It's just a classic movie. It's not like any of them watching the movie were actual slaves. That's like me feeling bad because evil white people did bad things in the past and I'm white... I don't give a shit cuz I wasn't there and I didn't do it.

    Everyone is an actor in 2017, pretending like they experienced these hard times or something. Must be some time traveling shit goin' on..
    Last edited by Lazuli; 2017-09-08 at 09:44 AM.

  2. #202
    I enjoy slave movies, 12 years a slave, free state of Jones, django unchained etc, all good movies.

  3. #203
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by sefrimutro View Post
    Anything before The Lion King is problematic af.
    I have issue with the lion king as I feel like im a lion at heart.
    So seeing a lion get viciously killed goes against everything I stand for as a Lion.

    I demand the movie to be boycotted for the greater good as the majority of watchers are Lions.

  4. #204
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    There should be no guilt there either. 99% of the actions taken against Native Americans were in reprisal for things they had done. When treaties were broken, 90% of the time it was them that did it. This was partially due to cultural differences. In our culture, treaties signed by our representatives were binding on everyone. In the Native culture, treaties were only binding on the ones who were actually present and took part in the signing.
    I feel no guilt at all. The official Government policies were always about co-existence. There was never any official policy of genocide.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Slavery was only an issue because it's continued use was necessary to the economic survival of the states. The Southern states were already in poor economic condition due to the price fixing imposed on them. If they had to stop using slave labor, that would totally destroy them. That is the only reason why it was mentioned by secessionists. It was not the main issue but rather an ancillary one attached to the overriding economic oppression they were suffering from. They had to continue the practice to survive. They seceded to gain control over their own economic destiny. If they had succeeded in establishing an independent nation and gained control over their own destiny, slavery would have faded away anyway. Most Southerners found it distasteful but were forced into it's continued use.
    Ahh yes...the good old savages excuse...but then again you seem to not be bothered by slavery at all either so I guess you're just some immoral SOB and there isn't really much point in making a constructive post. Don't give a fuck what happens or happened to anyone else as long as it doesn't happen to you? Am I right?

  5. #205
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    There should be no guilt there either. 99% of the actions taken against Native Americans were in reprisal for things they had done. When treaties were broken, 90% of the time it was them that did it. This was partially due to cultural differences. In our culture, treaties signed by our representatives were binding on everyone. In the Native culture, treaties were only binding on the ones who were actually present and took part in the signing.
    I feel no guilt at all. The official Government policies were always about co-existence. There was never any official policy of genocide.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Slavery was only an issue because it's continued use was necessary to the economic survival of the states. The Southern states were already in poor economic condition due to the price fixing imposed on them. If they had to stop using slave labor, that would totally destroy them. That is the only reason why it was mentioned by secessionists. It was not the main issue but rather an ancillary one attached to the overriding economic oppression they were suffering from. They had to continue the practice to survive. They seceded to gain control over their own economic destiny. If they had succeeded in establishing an independent nation and gained control over their own destiny, slavery would have faded away anyway. Most Southerners found it distasteful but were forced into it's continued use.
    Bollox

    Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The contention isn't about movies featuring slavery, it's about movies trying to paint over slavery with a "being owned as property wasn't all that bad..." angle.
    objectively speaking, yes, being owned as property was not all that bad. For every case of "how we think slavery was" far more was simply being a worker, receiving three meals and having shelter on top your head. Even more, if you were a housekeeper. The argument against slavery stems from 21st century morality, not due to it being extremely harsh or anything. 21st century expects people to be fed, housed for Free i.e. welfare. It is better to be slave than a starving African even now. I mean really end all the food donation and ask them if they want to be slave in America, then just see how many will agree even NOW. Hell, you can even ask for their children to be slaves, and not them, they will still agree even though they will be dead, but their children will be alive and not starve to death.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dkwhyevernot View Post
    Bollox

    Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition.
    which is the truth, in general. Specific cases however differs greatly. Objectively speaking as of now, white people as a group is superior to black people as a group. Whether you believe this is due to genetics, or the environment or mix of both, this is truly the case as of now. In the future it might change. Can you sincerely deny it?

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    I find it ridiculous that people try to censor movies and TV Shows. We're eventually going to get to the point where only Disney/Pixar movies are allowed to be shown.
    All part of the master plan by Disney.

  8. #208
    It's set during the civil war and it was made in the 30's, right? People need to get the fuck over thier preconceived notions of what's acceptable when it comes to old media and just accept it for what it is. Hell, apply that to all media.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Excellion View Post
    Ahh yes...the good old savages excuse...but then again you seem to not be bothered by slavery at all either so I guess you're just some immoral SOB and there isn't really much point in making a constructive post. Don't give a fuck what happens or happened to anyone else as long as it doesn't happen to you? Am I right?
    well they were savages. Name one peaceful tribe in the Americas, will you. Savage enough that some tribes they sided with colonials against other tribes. Read upon Beaver wars for example.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    I enjoy slave movies, 12 years a slave, free state of Jones, django unchained etc, all good movies.
    all of those show only the BAD parts of slavery, its excesses, tailored toward modern WHITE American guilty conscious. As an Indian, who has cultural legacy of being conquered by first the Muslims, then the british, White People have NOTHING to feel guilty for. Because in their place, we would done the same. So, would the natives, and they did with other tribes before precontact and post contact.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mariovsgoku View Post
    Racially insensitive? Fuck that word. This was a classic movie. Before we know it, all classic movies will be banned.
    yes, the end goal is the cut off the historical ties of White People to the United States. From movies, to literature, to culture. Since, you can not destroy them, they will be shamed to a corner where no one would see them or want to see them. It is done to create a globalized U.S. where every race has claim to the U.S. and its Greatness. They want to say America built by minorities, even when most of the minorities did not come to the u.s. until the 20th century and even then people were low skilled worker. But they want to equalize the achievement of working to build a road to establish a NATION. They already done so, Susan B Anthony replacing Jefferson. Some one who establish the monatary system of the United States of America with A glorified Nagger (not the N. word) who "fought" (even though no battle was actually fought and did NOTHING but complain)

    infracted - forbidden topics
    Last edited by Crissi; 2017-09-09 at 12:50 AM.

  10. #210
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemishunter1 View Post
    objectively speaking, yes, being owned as property was not all that bad. For every case of "how we think slavery was" far more was simply being a worker, receiving three meals and having shelter on top your head. Even more, if you were a housekeeper. The argument against slavery stems from 21st century morality, not due to it being extremely harsh or anything. 21st century expects people to be fed, housed for Free i.e. welfare. It is better to be slave than a starving African even now. I mean really end all the food donation and ask them if they want to be slave in America, then just see how many will agree even NOW. Hell, you can even ask for their children to be slaves, and not them, they will still agree even though they will be dead, but their children will be alive and not starve to death.
    It was so good that people risked life and limb to run hundreds of miles in a northerly direction away from it to an unknown future because they liked it so much, right?


    If you want to be a "slave" in the modern day and receive three square meals and a roof over your head with only a bit of restriction on your freedom because you think it's so grand, you can go do that. Just go break into the nearest jewelry store, wave a gun around and then wait a little bit. Hell it even comes with an orange jump suit and a bed check every night just so you know people care about you.



    Sorry, slavery was bad. You can't "hand wave" that away with the bare minimum requirements required to sustain human life that slaves got.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    It was so good that people risked life and limb to run hundreds of miles in a northerly direction away from it to an unknown future because they liked it so much, right?


    If you want to be a "slave" in the modern day and receive three square meals and a roof over your head with only a bit of restriction on your freedom because you think it's so grand, you can go do that. Just go break into the nearest jewelry store, wave a gun around and then wait a little bit. Hell it even comes with an orange jump suit and a bed check every night just so you know people care about you.



    Sorry, slavery was bad. You can't "hand wave" that away with the bare minimum requirements required to sustain human life that slaves got.
    Some people, did that. Out of all the slaves how many do you think actually did that? How many even tried? There were some bad slave owners, as there were some good ones. For some it was simple transaction, labor for food and shelter.
    As for your second statement, why should i do that? I have skills i can use to get employed. Worse case, scenario I have welfare. Did the slaves had those before? Did the white people who sold themselves in slavery had those?
    Yes, I do not need to handwave. The bare minimum is a luxary when you live in a world without welfare from WHITE people. Do you think YOU deserve the "bare minimum" just for existing? Then you are entitled to the "bare minimum" just because you manage to be born? When the U.S. finally declares bankrupcy, think about what gonna happen to your "bare minimum" from welfare?

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    Does that mean EVERY SINGLE MOVIE that has a Nazi or swastika in it needs to be banned to protect them?
    OMG! Don't tell me they're going to destroy all copies of Casablanca to protect peoples feels! /runs and hides his dvds.

  13. #213
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemishunter1 View Post
    Some people, did that. Out of all the slaves how many do you think actually did that? How many even tried?
    So you're using the relative impossibility of escaping the system as a sign that it was "good?" Neverminding the fact that slaves that were recaptured could be split from their families and resold, brutally punished, or killed.

    There were some bad slave owners, as there were some good ones. For some it was simple transaction, labor for food and shelter.
    ...and then holding on to their children, and their children's children, and their children's children's children, and so on and so forth for generations for a lifetime of hard labor with no chance for escape, save for an escape the slaves could affect themselves.

    "So you do our hard labor for your entire life, never leave this plantation, give us your children's lives to do the same, and in return we make sure you don't die... Unless you make us angry, in which case we might kill you. Sound good? Mkay."

    It wasn't thought of as a transaction any more than putting gas in a tractor is "paying" the tractor for its service. Slaves were thought of and treated as property. Hell they were legally property. You can't hem and haw your way around that.

    As for your second statement, why should i do that? I have skills i can use to get employed. Worse case, scenario I have welfare. Did the slaves had those before? Did the white people who sold themselves in slavery had those?
    If you're referring to slaves taken from Africa very early on in the slave trade... they had lives and families where they lived. And were probably a great deal happier with the "savage existence" (just gonna jump the gun on you saying something like that) that they lead than with the "blessing of doing the white man's labor." So don't go "white man's burden" on me.

    As for the generations of slaves... what jobs could they have had? They lived their entire lives working in plantations or households and were almost never taught to read or write. They were never given any opportunity to rise above the status of being slaves, because that's not how the system was designed.

    And if you're arguing that the "black man couldn't make it in the western world at the time," there are any number of successful black people from the time period.

    ...Generally from the North, where they... you know, weren't owned as property.

    Yes, I do not need to handwave. The bare minimum is a luxary when you live in a world without welfare from WHITE people.
    Oh wow you are going "white man's burden" on me.

    Do you think YOU deserve the "bare minimum" just for existing? Then you are entitled to the "bare minimum" just because you manage to be born? When the U.S. finally declares bankrupcy, think about what gonna happen to your "bare minimum" from welfare?
    Yes I'm sure the US' bankruptcy is just around the corner.

    Look I'm happy you tacitly admit Trump is a buffoon that can't tell his ass from his elbow, but I don't think even he could bankrupt the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    Does that mean EVERY SINGLE MOVIE that has a Nazi or swastika in it needs to be banned to protect them?
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    OMG! Don't tell me they're going to destroy all copies of Casablanca to protect peoples feels! /runs and hides his dvds.
    So are you saying Casblanca is romanticizing a view of Nazi Germany while minimizing the brutality of the Nazi regime?

    Cuz if you aren't, your parallels vis-a-vis Casablanca and Gone with the Wind really fall flat.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2017-09-09 at 03:01 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Cuz if you aren't, your parallels vis-a-vis Casablanca and Gone with the Wind really fall flat.
    Nah. I was just making fun of the people who mindlessly want to erase anything that contains anything offensive to anyone. I'm sure there's someone out there who thinks that Casablanca should be erased from existence because some of the actors therein portrayed Nazis.

  15. #215
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Nah. I was just making fun of the people who mindlessly want to erase anything that contains anything offensive to anyone. I'm sure there's someone out there who thinks that Casablanca should be erased from existence because some of the actors therein portrayed Nazis.
    Yep and I'm sure there are people that think that politicians are lizard people too.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by sefrimutro View Post
    The showings of pieces like this in a museum-like environment, with an organized forum for discussing and contextualizing slavery, is a power they're choosing to surrender.
    People don't want to talk about racism: it's tiring and uncomfortable. Removing this opportunity is bending the knee to their demand. It's refusing their mission to "educate and enlighten the communities it serves". What a bunch of pathetic cowards.
    Honestly, if you are watching gone with the wind to be educated you are a lost cause already. I don't necessarily agree with removing it but same as the fucking statues they teach nothing that isn't readily available in much more formalized manners.

  17. #217
    It's ironic that taking down statues or pulling certain movies is inadvertently bringing huge amounts of attention to them, more than they ever would've had if they were just left alone. I know this country is just trying to get with the times and all, but I wonder if these actions with good intentions will end up bringing more harm to us on a national level, than good.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Excellion View Post
    Ahh yes...the good old savages excuse...but then again you seem to not be bothered by slavery at all either so I guess you're just some immoral SOB and there isn't really much point in making a constructive post. Don't give a fuck what happens or happened to anyone else as long as it doesn't happen to you? Am I right?
    No, you're completely wrong. Of course slavery was a terrible thing and never should have happened. The fact remains however, that it did happen and became a necessary evil for economic survival. Thats all I'm saying. It had been the case for many years previous to the Civil War where Washington and Jefferson, while opposed to the practice, had to employ It to compete economically. The North was just as complicit in the continued use of slaves as the South was. You could even say that the Southern growers were in a state of slavery to the Northern industrialists and that was the cause of the war.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dkwhyevernot View Post
    Bollox

    Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition.
    So you take one small part of a long speech, a part that is clearly just one man's personal opinion, and ignore the rest. The first part of the speech clearly spells out the economic issues that prompted the secessions and were being addressed by the new Confederate Constitution. Issues like tariffs and the favoring of one element of industry to the detriment of another which was clearly what the Federal Government was doing. Issues that were fact and not morally based opinion. Yes, Stephens was a racist but he was just one man who did not represent the opinions of every Southerner (most of whom didn't even have slaves). This whole speech is now known as the "cornerstone" speech. Why is that? Because the victors of the conflict concentrate on the one small part in order to gloss over and hide the other elements which contained a lot of truth which didn't put them in a very good light. An effort to make themselves look noble and justify their conquest.

    Slavery played a part in the secessions but was not what started the war and not what it was fought over. The immediate cause of the war was the North's refusal to recognize the Confederacy and refusal to evacuate the forts in North Carolina, in particular Fort Sumter. If they would have left the forts, the war may very well never have happened. Why wouldn't they leave Fort Sumter? Because from there they could disrupt or prevent the Confederacy's export commerce with Europe. The North did not want to lose their lucrative arrangement which they had imposed on the South. Robert E. Lee chose to fight for the Confederacy not to support slavery, but to uphold the principle of a state's rights to cast off a government that they had deemed oppressive. A right that was expressly stated by the US Constitution. The North was fighting to preserve the Union, not to give blacks equal rights.
    Last edited by Dch48; 2017-09-09 at 08:33 AM.
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  19. #219
    How could those cold hearted people in 1939 not make this film to our standards in 2017! How dare they.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Paetolus View Post
    It's ironic that taking down statues or pulling certain movies is inadvertently bringing huge amounts of attention to them, more than they ever would've had if they were just left alone. I know this country is just trying to get with the times and all, but I wonder if these actions with good intentions will end up bringing more harm to us on a national level, than good.
    I fail to see any "good intentions".
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