Justice Dept. sides with baker who refused to make wedding cake for gay couple

[Sormine]

Trust me. If a business is rejecting people because of Skin Color, Religion, Sexual preference then that business is most likely going to fail, and another business will take it's place. It's 2017. Not 1950.

No, they couldn't. That's just blind faith in the free market, especially for a hospital. You can't just boycott a hospital if it's the only one in your area, you might disagree with them fundamentally but you can't "put your money where your mouth is"

[Deathcries]

No, they couldn't. That's just blind faith in the free market, especially for a hospital. You can't just boycott a hospital if it's the only one in your area, you might disagree with them fundamentally but you can't "put your money where your mouth is"

Says who? You?

As I said above. Hospitals use government funds. They can't turn patients away because of their skin color, sexual preference, or religion. Every hospital does it so this argument is retarded.

[Sormine]

Says who? You?

You're also kind of asserting claims without evidence, but yes. How will a community boycott a hospital if its the only one in the area?

[Deathcries]

You're also kind of asserting claims without evidence, but yes. How will a community boycott a hospital if its the only one in the area?

Read above.

[Sormine]

Read above.

This is a non argument, also this conversation should probably just stop as neither one of us is bothered to back up our claims.

[Deathcries]

That depends entirely on the area and availability of competing services.

Why would you want to be gay and live in an area that hates you? That's like me being white and living in a area with black people that hate white people. There's always opportunity to go somewhere else. This isn't the USSR. If you're living under the tax payer money then you live where the government puts you.

Sorry about your luck.

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This is a non argument, also this conversation should probably just stop as neither one of us is bothered to back up our claims.

I really don't care either. Your health does not benefit me, or millions of others. I know this is going to sound harsh but if you die tomorrow me and hundreds of millions of other people won't blink an eye. It has no benefit to us.

You're job, if you have one will find someone to replace you. Everyone is replaceable and the world will go on just fine without you, or me.

[Deleted]

Why didn't they just go to another Baker? Not saying that they should have stayed silent and just take it - no, I find it okay that they voiced their experience with the baker. But going to court, and wanting him to get punished? That is a bit much - leaves a bitter taste. Still, the baker was an idiot and a bigot.

As of right now, that is false. Hospitals cannot refuse their service or force services to anyone.

I'm afraid they can, and that happens all the time. For example, try donating blood as gay person - they won't accept you(they even won't accept you if you had sex with a women who had sex with a bi guy in the last 12 months). Or apply for a much needed organ transplant - but still smoke. You won't get one. There are many other examples were medical service may and can be withhold, for a variety of reasons, including sexual preference.

I have seen this in in the hospital I work as nurse many times (albeit not in the States, I'm from Europe).

[Zantos]

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 would disagree with you. Unless you care to post an argument against that act, this statement is objectively false.

State law must also be considered. Now, here comes the loop holes. You can still very much refuse someone service under any of those listed in that law. However, all you'd have to do is state another reason OTHER then what is listed. At that point, its up to a court to decide if it was discriminatory or not. You can also state it goes against your religious belief, and as long as you are Consistent with that, that law is a moot point.

[Healing Rain]

I agree with the decision. Just because 5 delusional, misguided justices decided to perpetuate the lie of same-sex "marrage" doesn't mean that we have to. The bakers would be lying to same-sex couples if they baked a wedding cake for them.

[Zantos]

Yeah, but you shouldn't be forced to do something that's against your beliefs, unless you're government funded. If you pay your taxes, then you should be allowed to serve whoever you want.

You aren't forced to go against your beliefs. That has been protected repeatedly. This law doesn't trump your freedom of religion.

[Sazabius]

This just in: the reason people go into business for themselves (if I am working for someone else I have no choice but to make the cake or quit).

[Deathcries]

Why didn't they just go to another Baker? Not saying that they should have stayed silent and just take it - no, I find it okay that they voiced their experience with the baker. But going to court, and wanting him to get punished? That is a bit much - leaves a bitter taste. Still, the baker was an idiot and a bigot.



I'm afraid they can, and that happens all the time. For example, try donating blood as gay person - they won't accept you(they even won't accept you if you had sex with a women who had sex with a bi guy in the last 12 months). Or apply for a much needed organ transplant - but still smoke. You won't get one. There are many other examples were medical service may and can be withhold, for a variety of reasons, including sexual preference.

I have seen this in in the hospital I work as nurse many times (albeit not in the States, I'm from Europe).

I came back from Italy not too long ago. I was in Rome mainly. I did see a gay restaurant. They served really good pizza. Holy hell though, some of the people I talk to are homophobic as hell there. Not all, but a lot.

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What are you talking about? Just because one baker is a bigot and there's no other options doesn't mean everyone's a bigot for using him. It means they have no other real options unless they want to learn how to bake themselves and spend hours of free time doing so.

There's always an option.

[kail]

Yeah, but you shouldn't be forced to do something that's against your beliefs, unless you're government funded. If you pay your taxes, then you should be allowed to serve whoever you want.

That's fine, especially when looking at custom made products. If a gay wedding cake is not on the menu, the baker doesn't have to make it. If the baker makes a gay wedding cake for a white couple but not a black couple (exact same cake), then the bakers would be in trouble. If you don't believe in making something, stay committed to it. Being selective on what customers you serve will get you in trouble.

[Deathcries]

You aren't forced to go against your beliefs. That has been protected repeatedly. This law doesn't trump your freedom of religion.

It shouldn't trump your freedom of any belief. Unless you are forcing yourself on to others. You cannot do that here in America.

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That's fine, especially when looking at custom made products. If a gay wedding cake is not on the menu, the baker doesn't have to make it. If the baker makes a gay wedding cake for a white couple but not a black couple (exact same cake), then the bakers would be in trouble. If you don't believe in making something, stay committed to it. Being selective on what customers you serve will get you in trouble.

Meh, I can agree with this.

[Zantos]

I'm afraid they can, and that happens all the time. For example, try donating blood as gay person - they won't accept you(they even won't accept you if you had sex with a women who had sex with a bi guy in the last 12 months). Or apply for a much needed organ transplant - but still smoke. You won't get one. There are many other examples were medical service may and can be withhold, for a variety of reasons, including sexual preference.

I have seen this in in the hospital I work as nurse many times (albeit not in the States, I'm from Europe).

Donating blood isn't like a medical service. The issue with that is that gays are at a much higher risk for HIV then anyone else. One contaminated vial gets the entire batch thrown out. The refusal like that is based in statistics and facts showing that they are a high risk group.

[D3thray]

You might possibly have a point (you don't but you might theoretically) if it wasn't such and insanely obvious case of cherry picking. The entire new testament is basically one big slap in the face for Leviticus so to call on those verses as a christian is just plain stupid. If you are not prepared to burn doves to cleanse your wife from the sin of menstruation...get baking.

You're arguing again that the government can and should dictate how religion is to be practiced. We both know this isn't the case. I happen to agree in a broad sense with this analysis of Leviticus, but again this is a religious issue. We do not get to enforce our interpretation on other people. Marriage may be governed by the state, but weddings aren't and as such I think the baker has the stronger legal argument.

[Nerdgasm]

I honestly think that "creative" business should be allowed to refuse service as they see fit, regardless of the law about other types of businesses.

When I was a graphical designer I refused service to two politicians and a homeopath. I shouldn't be forced to create/support something that goes against my beliefs/morals.

[Zantos]

It shouldn't trump your freedom of any belief. Unless you are forcing yourself on to others. You cannot do that here in America.

Correct. No one can force themselves on others. Regardless of what it is. Someones belief says they don't accept you, oh well. That is their right. Move along to the next one and leave a bad yelp review.

[Deathcries]

Donating blood isn't like a medical service. The issue with that is that gays are at a much higher risk for HIV then anyone else. One contaminated vial gets the entire batch thrown out. The refusal like that is based in statistics and facts showing that they are a high risk group.

I thought that whole gays are a higher risk for HIV was debunked? Maybe I'm wrong, I can't remember.

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Correct. No one can force themselves on others. Regardless of what it is. Someones belief says they don't accept you, oh well. That is their right. Move along to the next one and leave a bad yelp review.

And this is what I consider freedom.

[D3thray]

That's fine, especially when looking at custom made products. If a gay wedding cake is not on the menu, the baker doesn't have to make it. If the baker makes a gay wedding cake for a white couple but not a black couple (exact same cake), then the bakers would be in trouble. If you don't believe in making something, stay committed to it. Being selective on what customers you serve will get you in trouble.

Its not about the customers however, its about the religious ceremony of marriage. This ultimately is something society and the free market will decide, not the US constitution.