Guild Drama. Should I leave

[Lahkesis]

This seems like a reasonable approach to a difficult situation. I wouldn't classify this as 'drama' at all. But, if I was your GM and you spread my our business like this, you'd end up on the cut list regardless of where you stood in the beginning.

[alanium]

I am on the short list. We also have a few higher ranking members that aren't very good, but will make the short list because of their position within the guild.

The bold part is, in my experience, why I've seen most mergers of some kind fail. If there are players that aren't up to par in the raid group, but are protected by one of the previous groups, there will be many issues with it in the future. It does seem like they are handling it as well as possible, but that part alone has the potential to bring a lot of future drama.

[Ebalina]

I have friends that I know won't make the short list and will inevitably end up looking for new guilds and I don't want that.

There is your answer.
You do not play for progression you play for fun and with your friends.
Regardless of how good you are or bad you are you will be a detriment to this guild because of the way you chose to play.

Leave the guild with your friends and join more casual one it is simple as that.
It is not a decision you probably want to make cause you feel cozy in the spot you are currently because you know you will make it in the raid team but the question here is not about you personally its about a guild moving forward wanting to progress and you hindering/plaguing it with doubts because they want to cut the slackers and those slackers seem to be friends of yours.

If in the leadership of this project i will cut you regardless of how good you are just based on what you have currently written in this topic.
And i wont feel bad about it.

[In Ogres We Trust]

a) Guild Drama - This doesn't sound like guild drama.
b) Raid Roster - This seems like a normal thing for raiding guilds.
c) Cutting Players/Guild Merger - Just move on. Why would you dedicate your life to virtual friends? I don't have anything against "raiding" guilds, but to be frank, in my experience, I've only met 1-2 guilds that were worthy of dedicated time.

[clevin]

How should we know? Do you want to raid mythic? With these people? Or is it more important for you to play with those friends who leave if they aren't rostered even if that's not mythic level raiding?

Some background is missing too - why is your guild merging? Was that driven by the officers and GM? Did all the players vote and majority wanted to merge?

You're in the situation. You know how you feel. Do what you want but only you can answer all of this.

[Deleted]

I am on the short list. We also have a few higher ranking members that aren't very good, but will make the short list because of their position within the guild.

Well here's how it is:

Mythic raiding requires 20 people. From your opening post, it's obvious your guild does not have 20 ready and able members to tackle mythic content.

So now you are torn between your desire for mythic raiding, and your loyalty to friends who will not make the cut.

And that's a bitch, i understand. But your guild leadership is not doing anything wrong. They are doing what is required for them to do the content the guild you're in is aiming for.

They are not purposely putting you in this position. You being in this position is, no offence, merely a side-effect of your guild leadership doing what is required to tackle the content the guild is aiming for.

So you can't take anything personal, you can't blame anyone for the situation you've been put in, but you just need to make a decision.

Your choices are to either be part of the merger and support your guild leadership, or to inform them that you're not willing to part with your friends, and find a new guild or make your own with those friends.

But you need to make a choice, either way, 100%. Either you're 100% in, or you're out. Either choice will have it's disadvantages, but either choice is fine. You need to decide for yourself what your choice is, and commit to it.

[Deleted]

sounds like thats the guild im joining. move over has been, the big boys are coming!!

[Aggrophobic]

If you're not good enough to make the team then leaving is an option you should consider.
However, what your leader is doing seems fine. Not many guild leader are as professional when it comes to matters such as this.

[Sencha]

You can't take your own decisions without asking other people?

[Teevo]

The leadership of your current guild (at least the GM) sounds very intelligent and civil, and the whole process sounds well thought out. There's about 30 people combined from 2 guilds, even from each, and they're gonna take the best 10 from each side? That's perfectly fair. Don't wanna get sat, don't be shit. In your case, you said you're on the short list. You should stick around until the people they bring because of rank (not skill) starts holding it back. Raise the issue and if they don't do anything about it, then leave.

[clevin]

By the way, if you think the GM is handling this poorly ask yourself this... what would YOU do, keeping in mind that you have to be fair (you can't just include all of your friends), that you're building a mythic team and that the other guild has as much right to spots based on performance as yours does.

[anaxie]

I have friends that I know won't make the short list and will inevitably end up looking for new guilds and I don't want that.

Welcome to raiding

[Onikaroshi]

Guild mergers always suck, specially with things like:

Playing the same class/role as a higher up in the merging guild so therefore you get forced out or don't raid

Your GM makes more compromises then their GM and you get forced out because the merger won't happen unless their player gets to raid.

Leadership turmoil as people get pushed out of officer positions to make room for merging guild officers.

and many more.

Personally I run anytime a guild merger is solidified because it generally spells trouble at the end of the day, but that's up to you OP, what you value you more. Raiding with the guild, raiding with your friends or just not dealing with mergers.

[Lanrefni]

This doesn't even twitch my guild drama meter,the first guild I was ever in imploded when one of the GM's was caught sleeping with one of the officers by the other GM,who was his wife......

[Triggered Fridgekin]

Assuming it's for progression, the moment a merge is on the table is the moment you should take a sigh of relief that your guild didn't outright implode especially if you're on the short list. Better to accommodate some than become another guild casualty and your GM is pretty much on the ball in regards to the transition.

[Onikaroshi]

2) Be glad your guild is ATTEMPTING to stay alive by merging with another guild.

Almost every guild merge I've seen attempted fails in some or most regards. Sure, some succeed, and good for them, but a guild isn't "dead" because it lacks members, but it can be "dead" when loyal members are benched to make room for the merging guild.

[oldgeezer]

Reading stuff like this makes me profoundly glad that I treat WoW as a single-player game. Guilds; like real life, just less fun.

[Airlick]

It seems pretty considerate. They are willing to give you comments on your placement, it seems like they are trying as best they can to keep it civil. I think I've gone through 2 merges in my raiding times, both were done without any unexpected drama. They were a bit different in that my guilds stood in a position of strength, that is we provided the most of the raiders that would form the core of the core team. It's different than in this case, where both guilds seem to stand on similar ground.

If you respect your raiders, as your leaders clearly do, you're going to get past this without bumps. I wouldn't leave a guild like this even if I was put on the long list, as it is pretty clear that they aren't cutting you off. Things happen - people drop out, some start slacking off, some improve when rejected, so it's good for both sides to not close the doors or not slam them on the way out of the core squad.

[Onikaroshi]

A guild doesn't have to be dead because of that. Loyal members can still make their own raid.

If they DON'T, that's unfortunate for them. I was a part of a guild which spanned from early-Wrath to end of Cata. We merged with multiple other guilds. We never had issues with loyal members, because loyal members put the guild first - If they couldn't raid with us, they made another raid and we worked with them to the best of our ability to accomodate their raid. (If our members couldn't make it, if they needed an extra set of hands, they had their own guild tab and we had our own guild tab, but we provided from both tabs if it was simply asked for)

It sounds like they were 'loyal' to the raid group, not to the guild. That's a problem member, and you should be happy to be rid of them.

Then your guild is quite the special case. 12+ years in this game and I have never seen a successful guild merger, they just don't work often. Honestly, if I was GM and I had to remove someone from the raid team over a merger, I wouldn't expect them to stick around. It can be hard to make a second raid team in the guild anyway, specially if they're trying to raid the same nights as the main team, there's just not always enough extra, plus you get the reduction in progression a lot of times and end up being the B team.

Honestly, the minute a merger is decided I ain't sticking around, more trouble than it's worth (luckily we run the guild we have now, with a strong 23+ member raid team, so it's not really an issue.)

[clevin]

Mergers DO fail a lot and there's inherent drama in a situation where two heroic raid teams with ~15 people end up merging to make one 20 person mythic team. The other 10 people or so are left out as if they weren't important and that hurts no matter how good the justification is.

Things that can exacerbate this are:

1) Taking people who objectively aren't as good because they're somehow protected - the GM's spouse, the GM of one of the guilds, and officers, etc. If you're going to merge because you want to raid mythic you can't turn around and take people who are provably inferior to someone being benched.

2) Related to this is merging unequals. Saying '10 from each guild' works if each guild has 10 skilled people and you can fill the right roles but what if only 6 players from one guild are mythic-skilled?

3) Not having a plan for the others who used to raid. If they were raiding heroic and aren't now and the guild doesn't also clear heroic, that's a problem. People who joined your guild to do one thing are suddenly screwed. This is more of an issue mid-expansion.

4) Finally and perhaps most importantly, deciding to merge with another guild not because everyone wanted to but because the GMs decided to without involving the raiders. It's easier to accept and deal with all of the above if the raiders in the guild decided to merge. Having a merge shoved down their throats feels like you're just a peon who doesn't matter and no one wants that feeling.