Guild Drama. Should I leave

[xcess]

Are these ppl gonna be good enough to fill your mythic raiding needs ? Do you want to raid with your friends ? Can your friends just join another mythic guild with you? People gonna come back for Antorus so you have to see if they are really gonna keep you on or they would get people closer to them

[Ebalina]

Almost every guild merge I've seen attempted fails in some or most regards. Sure, some succeed, and good for them, but a guild isn't "dead" because it lacks members, but it can be "dead" when loyal members are benched to make room for the merging guild.

Been loyal should not guarantee any one a raiding spot.
I can make every raid for example but i'm drooling sniffling idiot who has no idea what he is doing but i'm always there always wanting to raid even tough i'm bad and i'm lying to my self i'm entitled to raiding because i make the time to show up and partake in social events who have nothing to do with raiding.
And there's Joe who makes all raids and is top notch player but new to the guild and therefor he gets to see less raiding then me because you see i'm loyal man i've been there since day 1 but i still suck donkey balls.

This is basicly what you are describing.
Entitlement from people just because they think they deserve it for just showing up.
Raiding guild needs to be build on 3 simple rules.
Performance above anything.
Clear understanding of the goals of the current raiding team any one who is even giving you a hint of not willing to put the work should go no matter who they are or how long they have been there or even if they are GM/Officer/your motherfucking gf/bf sidechick what ever.
Maturity the thing that keeps every one sane for the sake of banging your head against content regardless at what level you raid and the understanding that we are all humans and we all make mistakes and no one is perfect.

[Biomega]

If you're doing progression raiding, you need to be able to play at a level appropriate for what you are trying to do. That goes for performance (HPS/DPS) as well as mechanical awareness as well as out-of-raid factors like attendance/consumables/AP farm etc. etc. That fact in and of itself is not negotiable if you want to be a progression-oriented guild, but the extent of it is up to the individual guild. If you can't or don't want to handle your particular guild's take on this, find another guild with an attitude that suits you more.

I admire these leaders for being calm and organized about things, and very transparent about the process. The realities of guild raiding are a fact you have to accept. Yes that includes officers who maybe perform a little worse than they should, but get a spot because of their extra duties. If you feel you're carrying people (which does happen, the stereotypical "GM's girlfriend" player comes to mind) then bring that to the attention of the leadership, and if you are unwilling to accept their response feel free to leave. You will not find absolute fairness, from <Johnny R-Tard's Wipe Clup> to Method. It's all a negotiation, and this particular case seems quite reasonable and fair compared to the average guild.

[Replica]

ITT: OP lacks the ability to stay on main roster, calls it drama because they know they are cut.

3/10 bait.

[ceall]

So both guilds have 14-15 members and yours thinks about cutting some? Depending on what the other Team brings, noone should be cut out, some may have to switch to DPS from Tank or healer, which they would not like. Those people would go on their own. Tell your officers, that there'll be people leaving anyway. Also, having a "big" roster, helps for stability and steady progression.
"we need 3 rogues for the fight, too Bad we've cut 2 and now only have 1 left".

[Onikaroshi]

Been loyal should not guarantee any one a raiding spot.
I can make every raid for example but i'm drooling sniffling idiot who has no idea what he is doing but i'm always there always wanting to raid even tough i'm bad and i'm lying to my self i'm entitled to raiding because i make the time to show up and partake in social events who have nothing to do with raiding.
And there's Joe who makes all raids and is top notch player but new to the guild and therefor he gets to see less raiding then me because you see i'm loyal man i've been there since day 1 but i still suck donkey balls.

This is basicly what you are describing.
Entitlement from people just because they think they deserve it for just showing up.
Raiding guild needs to be build on 3 simple rules.
Performance above anything.
Clear understanding of the goals of the current raiding team any one who is even giving you a hint of not willing to put the work should go no matter who they are or how long they have been there or even if they are GM/Officer/your motherfucking gf/bf sidechick what ever.
Maturity the thing that keeps every one sane for the sake of banging your head against content regardless at what level you raid and the understanding that we are all humans and we all make mistakes and no one is perfect.

In making that statement I was assuming equal skill level, or even, lesser skill level coming from the merging guild which happens a lot. One guild won't merge unless X player can play their preferred class/spec/role and the other guild's gm compromises by making their current player with X's class/spec/role switch purely to make the merger work. I've seen great tanks/healers and dps kick out of the raid spots because some compromise happened.

[Raziella]

If the OP guild has high ranking members that wouldn't have made the cut if they weren't, you can likely assume the merging guild also has the same issue. Sort of a recipe for disaster. And my entire experience with this sort of thing.

[DeltrusDisc]

I have friends that I know won't make the short list and will inevitably end up looking for new guilds and I don't want that.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

[Deleted]

I am on the short list. We also have a few higher ranking members that aren't very good, but will make the short list because of their position within the guild.

And the problem and reason for this THREAD is?????

[Ebalina]

In making that statement I was assuming equal skill level, or even, lesser skill level coming from the merging guild which happens a lot. One guild won't merge unless X player can play their preferred class/spec/role and the other guild's gm compromises by making their current player with X's class/spec/role switch purely to make the merger work. I've seen great tanks/healers and dps kick out of the raid spots because some compromise happened.

Then what you've seen is the dumbest thing i've read.
Because no one in their right mind will kick a good player for a rerolling unproven one.

[Cwimge]

I sense drama will come. No matter how progressed, mature, no-nonsense or any other buzzword you are. Start threatening people's spots and something will eventually happen. But as others have said. Until you're on the block then it's not your problem- just wait it out

[Onikaroshi]

Then what you've seen is the dumbest thing i've read.
Because no one in their right mind will kick a good player for a rerolling unproven one.

You must not be looking hard enough, or have been extremely lucky in your wow time. It's a case of some GMs feeling it necessary to take on the 10 people to field their roster and they value that over the player being replaced.

[callipygoustp]

Thinking more on this.... their selection method should be somewhat transparent otherwise there is quite a bit of potential for drama. If you know the other guild and are able to digest logs, you should be able to get an idea of who would be making the cut. If the logs of people making the cut are below par.... well then, drama lama!

[Xenyatta]

I agree with the others in that they were professional, civil, clear and concise as to what they wanted, what they expect and what their plans are. Most guilds aren't any where NEAR this organized or this courteous. Also, I'd let the dust settle before just cutting bait and leaving. If someone else leaves for this pretend "drama", one of your friends might get bumped up and make that short list. I'd see how the chips fall after a month or two before making any decisions. Give them a chance to work things out and smooth out the wrinkles.

Remember being a team leader is like being a general manager... just doing it for free. They get all the headaches, stress, work and they don't get paid for it. They do it to ensure others (as well as themselves) have fun, progress and get what everyone else wants out of the game. They don't get to log in and raid or farm like the rest of the team does. They have to deal with spam, whiney people, banking, roster issues, recruitment, meetings, organization, raid leading and planning on top of farming and the actual raiding. Give them a chance.

[Razion]

Bummer to lose friends. You unfortunately are now in the position where you have to decide what's more important to you (progression or friends). From personal experience I'd advise you lean very hard into one to hold onto what's most precious to you instead of trying to get both and ending up with nothing.

[Onikaroshi]

Bummer to lose friends. You unfortunately are now in the position where you have to decide what's more important to you (progression or friends). From personal experience I'd advise you lean very hard into one to hold onto what's most precious to you instead of trying to get both and ending up with nothing.

Purples don't mean much if you don't have anyone to show them to :P

[HuxNeva]

It is not 'drama' yet, your officers are trying best they can, but it will be.
Mergers fail >90%, not just in WoW, IRL as well. In a take-over there is a clean 'winner'. The ones from the absorbed company that stay one know that there was no entitlement, the ones that don't make the cut see clear reasons why. The ones from the 'winning' company that are cut might bitch but are gone, the ones from the winning company that stay get to feel like winners in a larger company. In a 'merger', everyone feels entitled, and even those that stay on feel insecure and get more entrenched and CYA.
When flex meets the fixed Mythic 20 roster in WoW, it is always going to be a shitshow, and 'mergers' make it worse. Both guilds had probably 2 tanks that were there nearly every raid night of the HC progression. 2 of these will be cut. Same, to a slightly lesser extent for the healers. For dps it might be more 'rational', even though differences might be quite small and calls will feel (righly or wrongly) arbitrary to many involved.
OP, give it a few weeks. Whatever will happen will happen, but don't for a minute assume the current 'lists' will remain. Don't lose friendships in the meantime over it.

[FertsBlert]

I wouldn't bother leaving the guild, it looks like your leadership is working hard to make it professional and fair. However in my decade of playing WoW, guild mergers are cancer and both those guilds are dead or will be soon.

[xcess]

Bummer to lose friends. You unfortunately are now in the position where you have to decide what's more important to you (progression or friends). From personal experience I'd advise you lean very hard into one to hold onto what's most precious to you instead of trying to get both and ending up with nothing.

Why cant he have both? unless he is on a dead realm then he can join another with his friends. Or all just transfer to a big server and have more choice

[VyersReaver]

I am on the short list. We also have a few higher ranking members that aren't very good, but will make the short list because of their position within the guild.

Until this comment I thought it was fine. Now I see a real basis for drama. But yeah, unless you are cut, you shouldn't leave. Reason is because I think after a while the lack of skill will show, and the other half (which is coming from another guild and will have little attachment with those members) will have something to say about it. As your half will have something to say about bad performers from the other half, I believe.
If both of the leaders are adequate (which looks like they are, the way it is being handled overall is fine), they will weed out the bad seed, and Long Listers will get on the static.