Almost all remaining players have an unhealthy attitude towards WoW

[FelPlague]

Why do you moderate a forum for a game you barely play? 6 hours a week is nothing.

You basically talk about WoW more than you play it. Strange.

You dont need to know how to play wow to know when someone is being a douche or spamming

[Jastall]

I'm a vanilla player and I liked WoW far more in Wrath/Mists/Legion than I ever did vanilla.

People think AP is a grind? Don't even get me started on classic WoW PvP. Jesus.

Honor grind. Resist gear. Attunements. Just leveling which took ages. Extremely slow gearing process if you weren't cutting edge.

But yeah, Legion is totes the worst grind this game has ever seen.

[Deleted]

I hate to be the one to tell you this but getting resistance gear Vanilla was not natural nor was it fun. It was very annoying rep grinds. Like the thorium brotherhood.

Thats the problem right there. People dont see anymore how vanilla was as looking at your example today you just take 50 core leather and you are exhalted with thorium brotherhood (and thats not how it was in vanilla...)

And what do you mean the grind was not this bad? lol did you forget how we got shoulder enchants in Wrath? grinding at max lvl through dailies....
I just think people need to try and remember that the game has been getting better since Vanilla.

People are to spoiled for this and want everything instantly....

[-Joker-]

Thats the problem right there. People dont see anymore how vanilla was as looking at your example today you just take 50 core leather and you are exhalted with thorium brotherhood (and thats not how it was in vanilla...)


People are to spoiled for this and want everything instantly....

Took me a LONG time to finally get Hydraxian Warlords from Molten Core. Talk about a GRIND.

[Deleted]

Clarifications: I've played casually since Vanilla and only actually got into max level content with Wrath. I have since played both Vanilla and TBC on Blizzlike private server versions of both of those. I'm not assuming those are 100% perfect, but I can say from my experience there that it wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be, but that might also be because we all know what to expect now.

thats because these servers are 99% NOT like the real vanilla....

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Took me a LONG time to finally get Hydraxian Warlords from Molten Core. Talk about a GRIND.

yeah that where fun times and people cry about the grinds today *rofl*

[Blackrunner01]

Ok, here's a better example: when you spend 9 hours a week raiding (the average amount for a mid-tier guild), it's a hobby. When you have to spend additional 9+ hours a week to keep up with the content outside raids to be able to raid at a mid-tier level because people complained about a "lack of content", you know that the game is not being designed with people who treaty it as a hobby in mind. It's being designed for people who want it to be a large part of their lives.

1 hour a day is PLENTY of entertainment for the current price of monthly subscription.

The point is, WoW needs to go back to being a GAME rather than a lifestyle choice.

WoW is an MMORPG. It's supposed to be time consuming. If you want something you can play for an hour a day to stay competitive I suggest you play something else.

[Feali]

yeah that where fun times and people cry about the grinds today *rofl*

Just because grinding was worse in the past doesn't mean it's not bad now.

[Hctaz]

thats because these servers are 99% NOT like the real vanilla....

I mean they're supposed to be extremely close to Blizzard's version. Same loot drop rates, same grinds, same gear, same shit. It wasn't like I was on some 5x exp 5x gold server or some shit. I purposefully didn't play on those things.

[Deleted]

Just because grinding was worse in the past doesn't mean it's not bad now.

Please dont put words in my mouth HATER. All I said was Vanilla had REAL grinds. If you dont like grinds you play the wrong kind of game and should just get out. TIA

[corebit]

Just because grinding was worse in the past doesn't mean it's not bad now.

MMORPGs at their core are all about the grinding, that's how it is. Don't want grinding? Play another genre.

[Jaylock]

I don't do fishing. I don't find it fun. Lucky for those that do, they actually have something to do that they enjoy!

A patch came out last week and I only have 1 hour worth of contend to do every day in the form of world quests and old content mount runs.

An extra thirty on Wednesdays due to gating.

It's WoD all over again. MMO's NEED hours upon hours of content to retain subs.

What type of content do you want? Do you think that they should make 10 new dungeons per patch? Do you think that they should add a full zone of questing each patch? What would satisfy you?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

"Almost all remaining players have an unhealthy attitude towards WoW"
Not sure what you are basing this bold statement on, but I do not remember you polling me. Guessing you only polled yourself? Perhaps thread should be retitled "I am realizing I have an unhealthy attitude towards WoW". Owning your faults is the first step toward outgrowing them.

[Paula Deen]

I pay less monthly for Netflix than I do for WoW. Guess which provides me more hours of fun? Hint, it isnt the video game.

[Fabinas]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-wa...numbers-legion

Chilton gave a quote and then backpedaled.

Then don't claim Legion ever had 10 mill subscribers. With 3.3 mill bought on launch day it's impossible to imagine another 6.7 million boxes were bought in the next months.

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MMORPGs at their core are all about the grinding, that's how it is. Don't want grinding? Play another genre.

Grind per se is not bad. Introducing grinds with rng rewards or locking previously available abilities behind grinds (see Argus whistle)to artificially prolong content is the problem.

[XDurionX]

You probably know this, but : you're wrong. Almost everyone in my guild plays less than 15 hours a week. My anecdotal "evidence" > your "evidence".

[Granyala]

A patch came out last week and I only have 1 hour worth of contend to do every day in the form of world quests and old content mount runs.

An extra thirty on Wednesdays due to gating.

It's WoD all over again. MMO's NEED hours upon hours of content to retain subs.

What type of content do you want? Do you think that they should make 10 new dungeons per patch? Do you think that they should add a full zone of questing each patch? What would satisfy you?

My guess? Only a theoretical RL replacement.

Hours upon hours of content on a DAILY basis?
If that were even possible, most people wouldn't dare to venture near such a game, because most of us with jobs and real lives don't have "hours upon hours" each day to devote to a video game.

[Saffa]

Almost all? Hyperbolic.

[Deleted]

Not going to provide tons of examples but I'm sure everyone is aware of the current grindy RNG approach. Let's take a look at the new fishing "content" added in 7.3: 6 fisherfriends, +-3 hours to get exalted with each. That's 18+ hours to get the new Underlight Emerald. 18 hours is almost a day.

Whay is a gray item from a NPC vendor in a starting zone practically useless compare to the "Underlight Emerald"..... yes its hard to get, that give it value...

Not you do not "need" the Underlight Emerald for somthing... its only a status symbol.... WoW have always had great time sink stuff for status symbol stuff like the Wintersaber trainer.....

[Aeula]

What type of content do you want? Do you think that they should make 10 new dungeons per patch? Do you think that they should add a full zone of questing each patch? What would satisfy you?

I know I'm wasting my time writing this since it'll be buried in the thread and you'll disagree with everything because you're Jaylock but still.

What I want to see is more of the content we saw in MoP. Not dungeons or raids, but places like the Thunder Isle, which had rares in addition to the daily quest rotation instead of being a part of it. Instead of time gating it was a server-wide effort to unlock each new part of the questline.

The Landfall patch questline is another example of what I'd want to see. You got a new quest every few days based on effort that -you- put in instead of statically unlocking every week and the mount reward was actually a REWARD instead of a gold sink. You even got one for free as part of the questline.

A reason to do dungeons that wasn't forced by shoehorning them into questlines would be nice. Valour and Justice points should make a come back as rewards from world quests, dungeons, raids and Scenarios. And on that note: 3 man scenarios. I want to seem them brought back.

Valour and justice should be used to buy normal-heroic quality raid gear like we used to be able to, it gives those of us who aren't interested in high end raiding to progress our characters gear-wise.

Veiled Argunite is okay but when Antorus comes out it'll be useless. Also it only comes from world content and can't really be used once you've gone past 910 except in hoping for titanforging. If they buffed the ilvl when the raid comes out and added veiled argunite to dungeons and raids in addition to world content then that'd be a nice way to progress without RNG dictating everything. Also they could use it to allow you to upgrade your gear like in MoP and WoD so that it still has a purpose once you've grinded the gear out.

And lastly, next time they release a zone they need to do better with the terrain or just add flying from the start. I was okay with no flying in WoD because the zones were easy to move around in, we had a permanent way to remove daze, the mobs went down quick and we had Aviana's feather to help out. But in Legion all the mobs are damage sponges, the terrain is filled with clutter preventing you from moving in a straight line for more than three seconds without getting caught on the invisible hitbox of a branch and there's bloody mountains everywhere that you have to go around and then figure out what level of the mountain the quest/person/item you're looking for is on. The broken isles in general are terribly designed, there's no 'dead' space anywhere. Every zone is built like a themepark instead of a natural part of the world.

Oh and more variation between the reps. Every rep in legion is earned through the same method: World Quests, Garrison missions and World Quest Emissaries. There's no depth to any of the factions, there's no difference between gaining rep for the Dreamweavers and the Army of Legionfail. Everything is the exact same with a new skin.

In MoP if you wanted rep with the Shado Pan you chose a companion and attacked a certain enemy through a series of daily quests. In the Order of the Cloud Serpent (My least favorite rep in MoP, but still) you raised a dragon, fed it, played with it and when you were done you could farm eggs for more rep. For the Lorewalkers you tracked down rare scrolls and got a bit of a lore drop as a reward. For the Sunreaver Onslaught you could either focus on fighting the Mogu or on fighting the Kirin Tor and the Alliance for different rewards. Everything had a different spin to it.

In legion, no matter your faction of choice to gain rep with, it's all "Do four things" usually consisting of killing world bosses or 20 mobs or collecting random objects. And it's the same for EVERY FACTION. None of their world quests have any real depth or story. To be honest that's my biggest issue with Legion, it lacks any form of depth in its factions and the rewards from grinding rep with them are shite.

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My guess? Only a theoretical RL replacement.

Hours upon hours of content on a DAILY basis?
If that were even possible, most people wouldn't dare to venture near such a game, because most of us with jobs and real lives don't have "hours upon hours" each day to devote to a video game.

See above. /10chars

[Mhyroth]

I know I'm wasting my time writing this since it'll be buried in the thread and you'll disagree with everything because you're Jaylock but still.

What I want to see is more of the content we saw in MoP. Not dungeons or raids, but places like the Thunder Isle, which had rares in addition to the daily quest rotation instead of being a part of it. Instead of time gating it was a server-wide effort to unlock each new part of the questline.

The Landfall patch questline is another example of what I'd want to see. You got a new quest every few days based on effort that -you- put in instead of statically unlocking every week and the mount reward was actually a REWARD instead of a gold sink. You even got one for free as part of the questline.

A reason to do dungeons that wasn't forced by shoehorning them into questlines would be nice. Valour and Justice points should make a come back as rewards from world quests, dungeons, raids and Scenarios. And on that note: 3 man scenarios. I want to seem them brought back.

Valour and justice should be used to buy normal-heroic quality raid gear like we used to be able to, it gives those of us who aren't interested in high end raiding to progress our characters gear-wise.

Veiled Argunite is okay but when Antorus comes out it'll be useless. Also it only comes from world content and can't really be used once you've gone past 910 except in hoping for titanforging. If they buffed the ilvl when the raid comes out and added veiled argunite to dungeons and raids in addition to world content then that'd be a nice way to progress without RNG dictating everything. Also they could use it to allow you to upgrade your gear like in MoP and WoD so that it still has a purpose once you've grinded the gear out.

And lastly, next time they release a zone they need to do better with the terrain or just add flying from the start. I was okay with no flying in WoD because the zones were easy to move around in, we had a permanent way to remove daze, the mobs went down quick and we had Aviana's feather to help out. But in Legion all the mobs are damage sponges, the terrain is filled with clutter preventing you from moving in a straight line for more than three seconds without getting caught on the invisible hitbox of a branch and there's bloody mountains everywhere that you have to go around and then figure out what level of the mountain the quest/person/item you're looking for is on. The broken isles in general are terribly designed, there's no 'dead' space anywhere. Every zone is built like a themepark instead of a natural part of the world.

Oh and more variation between the reps. Every rep in legion is earned through the same method: World Quests, Garrison missions and World Quest Emissaries. There's no depth to any of the factions, there's no difference between gaining rep for the Dreamweavers and the Army of Legionfail. Everything is the exact same with a new skin.

In MoP if you wanted rep with the Shado Pan you chose a companion and attacked a certain enemy through a series of daily quests. In the Order of the Cloud Serpent (My least favorite rep in MoP, but still) you raised a dragon, fed it, played with it and when you were done you could farm eggs for more rep. For the Lorewalkers you tracked down rare scrolls and got a bit of a lore drop as a reward. For the Sunreaver Onslaught you could either focus on fighting the Mogu or on fighting the Kirin Tor and the Alliance for different rewards. Everything had a different spin to it.

In legion, no matter your faction of choice to gain rep with, it's all "Do four things" usually consisting of killing world bosses or 20 mobs or collecting random objects. And it's the same for EVERY FACTION. None of their world quests have any real depth or story. To be honest that's my biggest issue with Legion, it lacks any form of depth in its factions and the rewards from grinding rep with them are shite.

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See above. /10chars

Lovely post. Completely agree with every point made. They want to hide it's not new content but the same repetitive tasks over and over again, but mask it with different NPC's or Quest-names.