[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Deleted]

From a show story it would make much more sense for Jon to take it back instead of Stannis, wouldnt you agree? you would never have seen Stannis on the throne and GoT has been about Daenerys coming for the throne and Jon snow being the hero from the start.

For a pretty flower it makes sense. From a realistic perspective not so much.
This show although fictional got good because its realism (atleast in the first four seasons), anyone can make mistakes anyone can die, hardly someone becomes a hero from zero here.

Stannis is the rightful king, is a Lord of his Castle, coming from a powerful house and so on. It makes sense for him to have the power and the men to take Winterfel in battle.

What doesnt make sense and is not in accordance with how the show progressed, is that a flowery girl manipulated by Joeffry to claim back Winterfel after he escaped from Boltons along with Reek in the snow, deceive little finger and so on.
It doesnt make sense that a bastard of a destroyed house, with no castle, that serves the nights watch to suddently become king in the north.

This is a fiction, you can write whatever, you can even make Tyrion ride a dragon towards the camera as he winks at you. You can even make Hodor kill the Night King if you want to write it like that. But its not in accordance with how it started.


But i know this type of flower power shit will satisfy a portion of audience. I predict 1000 titles Saint Mary will save them all and continue her sweet love with that knight of a man.

[Vestig3]

Stannis is the rightful king, is a Lord of his Castle, coming from a powerful house and so on. It makes sense for him to have the power and the men to take Winterfel in battle.

Would be nice for him to take Winterfel but he wouldnt have the north with him they would all rather stand behind Jon or Sansa then Stannis.

Even if Stannis is the rightfull king and got recognized as it, they would only side him with him to destroy the lannisters but he would never get the full support of all 7 kingdoms.

And in my opinion they should have killed his story after he lost at Blackwater bay.

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It makes sense for him to have the power and the men to take Winterfel in battle

He did have the men but when he burned shireen half his forces left and they took the horses with them so that was it.

[Ilikegreenfire]

And its fake....

[eschatological]

For a pretty flower it makes sense. From a realistic perspective not so much.
This show although fictional got good because its realism (atleast in the first four seasons), anyone can make mistakes anyone can die, hardly someone becomes a hero from zero here.

Stannis is the rightful king, is a Lord of his Castle, coming from a powerful house and so on. It makes sense for him to have the power and the men to take Winterfel in battle.

What doesnt make sense and is not in accordance with how the show progressed, is that a flowery girl manipulated by Joeffry to claim back Winterfel after he escaped from Boltons along with Reek in the snow, deceive little finger and so on.
It doesnt make sense that a bastard of a destroyed house, with no castle, that serves the nights watch to suddently become king in the north.

This is a fiction, you can write whatever, you can even make Tyrion ride a dragon towards the camera as he winks at you. You can even make Hodor kill the Night King if you want to write it like that. But its not in accordance with how it started.


But i know this type of flower power shit will satisfy a portion of audience. I predict 1000 titles Saint Mary will save them all and continue her sweet love with that knight of a man.

I think Sansa is going to go on a similar path in the books, in that she becomes Littlefinger's pupil. I think she'll use it to destroy Littlefinger, but it will also destroy her (which may still happen in the show). I think it entirely possible LF brings the Vale North to help at Winterfell, for his own reasons, though. Sansa might very well be ensconced in Winterfell, not as Lady of Winterfell, but trying to pull the strings of Bran or Rickon (who should be Lord of Winterfell if they ever make it back).

Stannis, from the very beginning, even in the books, is portrayed as an unbending, unyielding man, and evokes the truism that the reed which doesn't bend in the wind, breaks. In his unbending view that the Throne is his, he's sacrificed his goodness to align with the power R'hllor can possibly offer him, killing his own brother via proxy sorcery. As he stands in the books now, he's marching on Winterfell, stubbornly, in a huge storm, because he can't think of anything but ousting bad people (which the Boltons certainly are). Jon isn't loyal to him (Jon is loyal to the Night's Watch), he is at best tolerant of him. The books made a deliberate point of Jon not bending the knee to Stannis. Maybe you could say Jon in the books supports Stannis for King, but that is because Jon doesn't really care about that kind of thing, and Ned supported Stannis and Jon is like Ned.

[Isilrien]

I think Sansa is going to go on a similar path in the books, in that she becomes Littlefinger's pupil. I think she'll use it to destroy Littlefinger, but it will also destroy her (which may still happen in the show). I think it entirely possible LF brings the Vale North to help at Winterfell, for his own reasons, though. Sansa might very well be ensconced in Winterfell, not as Lady of Winterfell, but trying to pull the strings of Bran or Rickon (who should be Lord of Winterfell if they ever make it back).

Stannis, from the very beginning, even in the books, is portrayed as an unbending, unyielding man, and evokes the truism that the reed which doesn't bend in the wind, breaks. In his unbending view that the Throne is his, he's sacrificed his goodness to align with the power R'hllor can possibly offer him, killing his own brother via proxy sorcery. As he stands in the books now, he's marching on Winterfell, stubbornly, in a huge storm, because he can't think of anything but ousting bad people (which the Boltons certainly are). Jon isn't loyal to him (Jon is loyal to the Night's Watch), he is at best tolerant of him. The books made a deliberate point of Jon not bending the knee to Stannis. Maybe you could say Jon in the books supports Stannis for King, but that is because Jon doesn't really care about that kind of thing, and Ned supported Stannis and Jon is like Ned.

Well-said. I hadn't picked up on Jon's loyalty to Stannis, either, but rather to the Watch, although this loyalty conflicts initially with the loyalty he has toward his family.

[Deleted]

Lets see who's deluded. I predicted before Stannis died, that Jonny Snow will take his role from the books in defeating Boltons and taking Winterfel.
And someone just like you came along, saying otherwise. Check my post in this thread from 4 years ago or w/e it has been.

I don't care what you posted before, i'm telling you, you are deluded.

The book series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, Jon is Ice and Fire, he's probably as close to a main character that we'll ever end up with in the book series.

Honestly, I was one of the biggest Stannis fanboys in this thread before his death, and even after a shortwhile, but the sort of people that come in here constantly espousing his virtues while claiming the show has become "feminist lovely shit." to quote yourself, make me want to hate the character, just to spite you.

He was a good character. He died. Get over it.

[RobertoCarlos]

I don't care what you posted before, i'm telling you, you are deluded.

The book series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, Jon is Ice and Fire, he's probably as close to a main character that we'll ever end up with in the book series.

Honestly, I was one of the biggest Stannis fanboys in this thread before his death, and even after a shortwhile, but the sort of people that come in here constantly espousing his virtues while claiming the show has become "feminist lovely shit." to quote yourself, make me want to hate the character, just to spite you.

He was a good character. He died. Get over it.

Why am I not surprised.

The end of the stannis arc was a rushed mess and a sign of things to come.

That said the treatment of characters in season 7 makes the Stannis arc less terrible in hindsight.

[Vestig3]

I can feel such a conflicted atmosphere here between book readers and show watchers lol im soooooo happy i never touch the books now.

[Deleted]

I can feel such a conflicted atmosphere here between book readers and show watchers lol im soooooo happy i never touch the books now.

The only conflict is between those of us who accept that the show is its own thing and the people who hate on the show because it is diverging from the books.

At this point the books and the show are canonically very different, even though they will eventually end up in the same place, the road they travel to get there looks to be very different.

Some people can accept that, some people can't.

[RobertoCarlos]

You forgot door number 3.

People that are upset at the drop in quality of writing just for the tv show alone.

[Vestig3]

You forgot door number 3.

People that are upset at the drop in quality of writing just for the tv show alone.

Prob dont have my glasses on but where did they drop the quality in writting? because for 5 seasons the show basicly was written for D&D and now they have to write it themselfs and thats acceptable.

[RobertoCarlos]

Prob dont have my glasses on but where did they drop the quality in writting? because for 5 seasons the show basicly was written for D&D and now they have to write it themselfs and thats acceptable.

when they decided to end the show in break neck speed and the resulting time restraints makes all future character arcs and scenes feel rushed and contrived

[Vestig3]

when they decided to end the show in break neck speed and the resulting time restraints makes all future character arcs and scenes feel rushed and contrived

Well the math is very easy, you got 13 more episodes and you need to get everyone that matters together and need to finish plots = rushing.

If your saying bad writting then S6 for me was way worse then S7, all in all it was a good season.

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How likely is that the golden company will betray Cersei and follow Jon or Daenerys?

[Frontenac]

Well the math is very easy, you got 13 more episodes and you need to get everyone that matters together and need to finish plots = rushing.

If your saying bad writting then S6 for me was way worse then S7, all in all it was a good season.

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How likely is that the golden company will betray Cersei and follow Jon or Daenerys?

Since Aegon will not appear in the show, I doubt Jon Connington will appear too. Connington was the Hand of the King (and good friend of Rhaegar Targaryen) during Robert's Rebellion, so he could support Daenerys. But, if he existed in the show, you would think he would have joined Dany when she was in Meereen. Therefore, he most probably won't be there.

On the other hand, the Golden Company was created by a Blackfyre, Aegor Rivers. The Blackfyres were a line of Targaryen bastards who rebelled against the true-born Targaryen. So they may not be too kind towards Targaryens. Also, they are known to have never broken a contract. Their motto is "Our word is good as gold." Therefore, if the show's Golden Company is like the book's, they should remain "loyal" to Cersei. As long as she pays them.

I wouldn't be surprised if Euron tried something fishy, though... Like, maybe, hiring the Golden Company for himself?

[Isilrien]

I can feel such a conflicted atmosphere here between book readers and show watchers lol im soooooo happy i never touch the books now.

I've read the books (started reading them long before the show), and I watch the show. I'm willing to accept that while they may be related in some ways, they are different as well, and that's fine. If you're able to keep them separate in your mind, the differences may not bother you. You might also enjoy reading them at some point.

[Tommy T]

Lets see who's deluded. I predicted before Stannis died, that Jonny Snow will take his role from the books in defeating Boltons and taking Winterfel.
And someone just like you came along, saying otherwise. Check my post in this thread from 4 years ago or w/e it has been.

You're not alone. Most people thought this.

[Ivanstone]

I wouldn't be surprised if Euron tried something fishy, though... Like, maybe, hiring the Golden Company for himself?

It could be that they're already in Varys's pocket or he's at least planned for this contingency.

[eschatological]

Well the math is very easy, you got 13 more episodes and you need to get everyone that matters together and need to finish plots = rushing.

If your saying bad writting then S6 for me was way worse then S7, all in all it was a good season.

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How likely is that the golden company will betray Cersei and follow Jon or Daenerys?

The point is, HBO was willing to go to 10 seasons or more, but D&D were the ones who wanted to move on. They arbitrarily picked season 7 as the end even though they were barely through half the characters' arcs at the point they made that decision, and have rushed and put out sloppy storylines ever since.

[Vestig3]

The point is, HBO was willing to go to 10 seasons or more, but D&D were the ones who wanted to move on. They arbitrarily picked season 7 as the end even though they were barely through half the characters' arcs at the point they made that decision, and have rushed and put out sloppy storylines ever since.

I thought they said in a interview that all of this was decided from the start? (their original idea was about 60 hours) never have i read that HBO wanted more, besides the show doesnt seem rushed tbh the pace is pretty steady, if anything i thought the show was going to slow in the first 5 seasons.

I've read the books (started reading them long before the show), and I watch the show. I'm willing to accept that while they may be related in some ways, they are different as well, and that's fine. If you're able to keep them separate in your mind, the differences may not bother you. You might also enjoy reading them at some point.

If i will read them it will be after the show has ended.

[Frontenac]

The point is, HBO was willing to go to 10 seasons or more, but D&D were the ones who wanted to move on. They arbitrarily picked season 7 as the end even though they were barely through half the characters' arcs at the point they made that decision, and have rushed and put out sloppy storylines ever since.

The situation is not better in the books. GRR Martin has two books left to end all the storylines still left in the show, plus the ones the show has ended, plus the ones the show has not even included. My feeling is that the books will feel rushed too. Martin wrote two books to describe events that were more or less happening at the same time.