EU Tries to fine Poland $75 Mil. Poland sends Germany $1Trillion bill for WWII

[antelope591]

Poland gave EU millions of ppl as a quality work force (cheap work force). Wasn't UK happy at the begining of the 2004 when they finally could fill plumber or other low skilled and low payed vacancies ? Its Your, similar as German or any other Western countries, problem that You wouldn't able to protect Your borders.

Yeah, UK was so happy about their Polish workers that they voted in favour of Brexit over it =P

[Astalnar]

No. It would just give it to Russia. It would be better for polish citizens if actually EU go there and force change of goverment.

There is no point into punishing citizens.

Oh yes, let's arm the EU, and have it send its army to the disobedient member state. That will end well. Not going to accelerate the dissolution of EU at all ...

[Nehezbegar]

Yeah, UK was so happy about their Polish workers that they voted in favour of Brexit over it =P

Well i don't expect more from Brits. They fucked us in the ass fter the WW2 after Polish fighters fought for UK, they were just drained in the wastes of history by the Brits.

[Nehezbegar]

I honestly wish they'd just stop the money flow, make millions of workers illegal and in return the eastern European countries would introduce customs on western products, like Germans machinery and cars. How quick would the Germans start to backpeddle.

I think western countries understimate the potential of eastern countries economies that are on the rise, while western economies are on a -1% or -2% level.

[Theodarzna]

Oh yes, let's arm the EU, and have it send its army to the disobedient member state. That will end well. Not going to accelerate the dissolution of EU at all ...

Yes the precedent of Angala Merkel sending in the troops to Poland to overturn a democratic government there, not a good luck but very much something I'm sure Eurocrats would love to do.

After all if there is anything the EU hates its popular sovereignty.

[Shakari]

This is a clear lack of understanding how the system works.

The only reason why the UK government gets fucked so often by the EU courts is because the UK government has a habit of disregarding it's own laws and citizen rights.

Expect to get fucked in the arse even harder /should/ the UK finally ever leave the EU. And I say 'should' because your government is already crawling back on the whole idea and proper negotiations haven't even started yet.

No its a simplification, not on about the decision and law making process, I'm on about the council and people who guide it.

[Mehrunes]

What's so hard to understand? Stuff that effects all of us gets decided by all of us...

EU works on a consensus and in this case Poland wants to eat it's cake and have it to..

To which the best reply came from the President of the European Council, Donald Tusk (in relation to UK's behavior about Brexit, but still). "There will be no cakes for anybody. Only salt and vinegar." If aimed at Poland it'd get bonus points due to the entire PiS being eternally triggered about Tusk.

Undemocratic? Their leaders are are elected. Maybe they're undemocratic because they're violently suppressing the Somali minority in Germany?

No, they are undemocratic because they shit on the Polish constitution and the rule of law and try to do things like making the judiciary branch of the government subservient to themselves.

There is already a thread about Polish reparation demands. These fines were neither handed out by Germany nor was the reparation demand a response to this. This is why people are bad at media literacy these days.

It's like saying: More people confess being agnostic these days than 20 years ago, hurricane "Irma" strikes coast of Florida.

It's the underlying message that is generated. I have no issues with reparation demand talks, or EU trying to fine Poland for something (EU fines are always a mixed bag and their effects rely a lot on compliance of those being fined.) But both have nothing to do with eachother.

They have plenty to do with each other given how PiS magically remembered that the issue with reparations from East Germany may be legally unresolved only after EU started to put more pressure and became more antagonistic in it's language.

Amusing, I am pretty sure that the Polish people will keep election Orban for exactly the same reason you EU lovers hate him, because he has the balls to stand up to the SJW politics of Merkel and the rest of her stupid friends in the EU. Fuck immigration quotas, and fuck Merkel.

Kinda hard to vote for Hungarian president in Poland. And just lol at calling the right winger Merkel an SJW. And PiS has about 40% support right now and suffers a pretty significant internal power struggle recently.

They should abandon the EU project and go back to the EEC.

No bullshit international courts or parliaments with no respect for member states.

The court and the parliament both predate the EU by decades.

[Theodarzna]

The EU is making it way too easy though. Remember Sweden and Germany in 2015 before they shut all their borders? Refugees welcome, wir schaffen das, kein Mensch ist illegal, etc., while Orban said no and built walls. Why is it so hard to agree to disagree and let things be? Germany and Sweden could take all the refugees in the world so they'd feel better about themselves, while other countries kept going about their day. There, problem solved in 5 min.

Why are a few countries so aggressive towards peaceful countries (not counting unrelated internal populist problems)?

This cannot be said enough. If taking in these migrants is not a problem, and migrants are wonderful and bring no problems, and "DIVERSITY IS STRENGTH!" then why does Germany, France ect want to sacrifice their precious diversity on countries that do not want it?

If the Migrants are not a problem as German officials will vociferously state, why the curious desire to unload them elsewhere?

[Noomz]

Nice racism and generalization right there. How about you say where you live so we can say your nation is full of thieves and criminals that they export all around the world? Trump drone much? Feels like reading that bullshit about the wall.

How is it racism? I live in a country that was invaded by criminals from former Eastern Block countries. It's widely known and accepted that many of them are Polish.
I didn't call your entire nation thieves and criminals, but these thieves and criminals are Polish. An important distinction to make.
Well, Poland is corrupt, underdeveloped and so on... I guess criminality comes with such corruption and neglect. Meanwhile they sit there and slam their chests, acting virtous and righteous as they refuse to fullfill an obligation which they've signed themselves up for. You don't get to just eat the cherries someone else picks then complain about how you gotta pay for them.

If you want to call me out on generalizations, don't do them yourself.

[Warning]

The EU is making it way too easy though. Remember Sweden and Germany in 2015 before they shut all their borders? Refugees welcome, wir schaffen das, kein Mensch ist illegal, etc., while Orban said no and built walls. Why is it so hard to agree to disagree and let things be? Germany and Sweden could take all the refugees in the world so they'd feel better about themselves, while other countries kept going about their day. There, problem solved in 5 min.

Why are a few countries so aggressive towards peaceful countries (not counting unrelated internal populist problems)?

Because there is an underlying idea of solidarity to the EU, which means you can't just take the good and not help cover for some of the bad. It's the idea that we shouldn't just leave Greece to rot with a few million refugees especially at a time where it was already in crisis. I would hope we'd do the same if Poland were suffering from some terrible crisis or natural disaster, and that's not merely to soothe myself and pretend like I'm a saint, but also because I could picture myself in trouble one day and hoping others wouldn't simply turn their back on me.

And if you really had fundamental objections to housing people, which imo were not warranted in this case but lets say you did, you could at least help out financially.

[Theodarzna]

and not help cover for some of the bad.

Wait, but I thought taking in migrants wasn't bad, it was absolutely 100% double plus good. Always good in fact. Migrants come with no problems, only upsides. Are you admitting that migrants are not just a blessing from heaven? Sounds like racist Trumpian talk.

Here I thought the promise was that by taking in untold numbers of migrants and resettling anyone who wants access to the European welfare states was nothing but good things. Yet Germany doesn't seem keen to have the "blessing" all to themselves.

What gives? Is "Diversity our Strength" or no?

[Nehezbegar]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html#comments

[Noomz]

Cos lazy people like Poles dont do their share plus we have stupid politicians.
Poland is piggiebacking on EU and want to cop out when they actually need to do something.

Uh-oh! Watch out! You'll get infracted for nation bashing for saying something negative about a country, no matter how truthful.

[Warning]

Wait, but I thought taking in migrants wasn't bad, it was absolutely 100% double plus good. Always good in fact. Migrants come with no problems, only upsides. Are you admitting that migrants are not just a blessing from heaven? Sounds like racist Trumpian talk.

Here I thought the promise was that by taking in untold numbers of migrants and resettling anyone who wants access to the European welfare states was nothing but good things. Yet Germany doesn't seem keen to have the "blessing" all to themselves.

What gives? Is "Diversity our Strength" or no?

Don't be childish, housing and feeding a huge number of refugees is costly and difficult. That doesn't mean they can't one day be productive additions to their new society, but yes in the short term of course there is a significant cost and organizational requirement. Debate me or debate your strawman but don't quote me in that case.

[Nehezbegar]

Don't be childish, housing and feeding a huge number of refugees is costly and difficult. That doesn't mean they can't one day be productive additions to their new society, but yes in the short term of course there is a significant cost and organizational requirement. Debate me or debate your strawman but don't quote me in that case.

So the German make investments now to profit in the future? Well Poland don't want to opt in in this investment

[Theodarzna]

Don't be childish, housing and feeding a huge number of refugees is costly and difficult. That doesn't mean they can't one day be productive additions to their new society, but yes in the short term of course there is a significant cost and organizational requirement. Debate me or debate your strawman but don't quote me in that case.

Excuse me? That is just a privilege the noble and generous German gets for the rich bounty that migrants obviously bring. Those are all future doctors, engineers ect and the lifeblood of Multicultural Paradise Germany! Every single one is a productive godsend to wonderful EUtopia!

The point being, why would Germany want to dispense with and send its wonderful blessing elsewhere, after all the migrants are all a blessing. And Germany is a wealthy country, whose generous spirit and nature can only be enhanced by unlimited migration.

My debate point is, why require Poland to take in people they don't want when Poland already took in refugees that Germany didn't want (Namely the Ukranians) and not simply ask Poland to chip in some if Germany is struggling with its endless supply of Somali, Libyan, Moroccan, Afghan and occasional Syrian ect?

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So the German make investments now to profit in the future? Well Poland don't want to opt in in this investment

Exactly, Surely Germany would only benefit from such small token investments that such a wealthy enlightened and perfect country could easily make in exchanged for the promised bountiful harvest of Diversity.

[Mehrunes]

Seize assets of non-Polish EU companies within their borders?

That would put Poland into a shitstorm even above EU level.

Fear from bombing/terrorism.

Aside from the whole thing about almost all Islamic terrorism acts in EU being performed not by the current refugees (or even normal migrants pretending to be refugees) that Germany accepted, but by French, Belgian, Dutch or Spanish nationalists, often from later generations, that got in not because of EU but because of these countries' deals with their former colonies, making the fear of refugees because of terrorism rather misapplied, since @Acidbaron and @EUPLEB already covered it aplenty, there's this tiny little detail that Poland isn't significant enough to be a terrorist target even according to Polish intelligence agencies.

Never. The glorious and beloved leader will lead us to victory. That or he and his BoR war boys will end up in valhalla first.

If "victory" is the name of his and Macierewicz's private mental asylum, then sure. And BoR is old news, terytorialsi is all the rage now (that's literally how they themselves refer to themselves on recruitment posters).

Brussels technocrats still doing their best to drive people who value their nations' sovereignty out of the EU. The peoples of Eastern Europe didn't spend 70+ years under hard tyranny to simply trade it for soft tyranny.

Perhaps the nations of Eastern Europe should exit the EU and form a modern version of the Little Entente.

All EU member states are sovereign. International obligations don't negate that and they are not even remotely unique to EU.

Western Europe is expected to pay into the EU to build up Poland.
Western Europe is expected to do deal with all the crime the Polish brought into Western Europe.
Western Europe is expected to put up with the Polish making Welfare, benefit collection guides for the UK and elsewere. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...people-7528645
Western Europe cannot build NS2 because Poland does not want to lose Transit fees.
Western Europe (France) cannot sell Helicopter Carriers to Russia, because Poland does not want them to.
Western Europe has to pay Child benefits to Polish Parents. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-overseas.html
Western Europe is expected to let Polish migrants move in and undercut Native workers.

Polish migrants are a net benefit in Western Europe and are not over-represented in crime, so *shrug*. And Russia is kinda sanctioned for a few years by now.

Poland elected idiots again. I mean, they're taking advice from the fucking Catholic Church to pass some pretty regressive laws nowadays.

The good news, is that the PiS government is not purely made by them, but by a coalition of various right wing nutjobs. Once they jump to each others' throats for more power for themselves. this coalition will collapse just like the one PiS had in 2005-2007, which lasted only half a term (and resulted in PiS creating illegal provocations against the members of their own coalition). Right now there are rumors from high ranking PiS politicians that the president already requested from PiS' leader that the minister of defense should go. And that minister holds a large part of PiS' overall support (the most crazy one, by the admission of various high ranking PiS politicians, but still).

I take it you are to young to remember, when Polish Citizens were allowed Visa free travel and the massive uprising in Car thefts in France and Germany? Guess were the Polish-Car theft stereotype comes from?

https://www.economist.com/blogs/char.../crime-germany
https://www.csmonitor.com/1992/0413/13013.html
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/03/ne...d.html?mcubz=3

A time period where the Polish could freely travel but not work is very relevant to Europe after their accession into EU, when millions of Polish emigrated for work.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1...ners-nlmnl8hc6
Also here. The UK has more Polish in its prison then other foreign inmates.

You mean the nationality outside of the British isles that has by far the most people in UK also has the most prison population? Who'd have thunk

[Deleted]

good for poland. fuck the eu.

[Theodarzna]

Short term burden, longterm gain.

It's also not entirely a problem of gains or burdens. The problem is more that some nations refuse to follow the democratic process of the institution, and that is probably the greatest point of contention.

When a council or parliament votes on something, they can't just suddenly go: "Nuh uh! I refuse!" because their vote didn't win.

Surely the bountiful harvest and promised endless upsides justify any short term cash costs by Germany. The gains are absolute and the costs are zero really except housing them. Why not then let Germany, France, Sweden, ect horde the migrants to themselves? After all there are no longterm downsides, none, zero, all ups. Thus whatever pittance must be endured for this obvious mana from heaven would be acceptable costs for #Diversity!

Yet..... there is a desire to force countries that don't want them to take them, poorer countries at that who couldn't afford the upfront cost even if they wanted them.

Also the Polish voters decided no to the migrants, why should they have to endure something they don't want? After all Poland is a sovereign country, it is not as if the EU is a Country after all.

[Deleted]

Germany is not fining anyone the EU is.

ffs wake up man. germany is the eu.